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Konza City featured on K24 all week this week
murchr
#131 Posted : Thursday, April 12, 2012 8:18:35 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
alma wrote:
It doesn't matter if you do things your way or another person's way. If it is the wrong way it is the wrong way.

Now saying we don't want to copy and paste is rather strange. Considering that we wish to copy and paste other country's technology cities

There has to be an extra reason why Konza is using public funding.

If it is because Nairobi cannot attract investors because of fire hoses, then the problem is not Nairobi, the problem is bureaucrats who don't follow laid down regulations which are going to be copied in Konza. so instead of creating a new city, then fire the bueracrats.

If the problem is lack of ict talent, then don't create a city, work with the ministry of education to come up with a working model to churn out it guys.

We are solving the wrong problems here.

What is the problem being solved at Konza? lets start there. Otherwise we might as well allow the ministry of transport to start a matatu business since matatus are a menace.


1. Is creating an ICT park wrong?

2. We all complain that doing business in the city is unbearable the man hrs lost in traffic are just too much, one way of solving the issue is decongesting, now if govt proposes some zoned area on the opposite direction of the city, what is so wrong with that?

3. Well well...If we lack talent and 18 local and international universities want to set up talent incubators what is so wrong with the govt facilitating that? Again, do you believe the likes of seven seas craft silicon and cellulant would be attracting business across Africa without the talent?

May be if we try to answer the above questions we will move on with a sober debate.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
jamplu
#132 Posted : Thursday, April 12, 2012 8:25:22 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 3/25/2010
Posts: 939
Location: Nai
alma wrote:
@jamplu unless you are getting hybrid planners also in Konza, the same guys you are talking about in mavoko will be in Konza. The same people who are supposed to ensure that laws and bylaws are followed now in Nairobi will be the same guys at Konza. Unless of course even that you will import.

Nairobi's problem has never been planning. It has been governance. The very same people now telling you to go to Konza, are the very same governors and managers that have failed in Nairobi. These include Proffesors Ndemo and Kiamba.

The reason why I'm against this whole concept is this notion that new cities change how people work.

When London had a serious problem with drainage, they did not move the city somewhere else, they came up with the engineering marvel that is the sewage system in London.

When Paris had a trash problem, they did not create another city, they fixed the problem the best they could and are still doing the same.

When Kenya has a problem, the technocrats decide to create a whole new cities with the same managers who messed up the first city, In the hope that things will be different.

Think Big doesn't mean sweep problems under the carpet.

As long as there is no ICT component in Konza, it will be competing against Tatu. Now I want to wager which of the two will be a better city.


@Alma lets import the hybrids you talking about if they do exist!!



a4architect.com
#133 Posted : Thursday, April 12, 2012 8:29:13 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@alma..vey true.
It boils down to feasibility.

Lamu port is feasible coz of Turkana,S.Sudan oil.

Isiolo town is feasible coz of oil prospects.

These can attract funding form other sources apart from treasury.

Konza project as a residential town is feasible and can attract funding from private sector.

Konza project as high rise city is not feasible, thereby requiring need to fund directly from treasury.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
a4architect.com
#134 Posted : Thursday, April 12, 2012 8:40:09 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
murchr wrote:
alma wrote:
It doesn't matter if you do things your way or another person's way. If it is the wrong way it is the wrong way.

Now saying we don't want to copy and paste is rather strange. Considering that we wish to copy and paste other country's technology cities

There has to be an extra reason why Konza is using public funding.

If it is because Nairobi cannot attract investors because of fire hoses, then the problem is not Nairobi, the problem is bureaucrats who don't follow laid down regulations which are going to be copied in Konza. so instead of creating a new city, then fire the bueracrats.

If the problem is lack of ict talent, then don't create a city, work with the ministry of education to come up with a working model to churn out it guys.

We are solving the wrong problems here.

What is the problem being solved at Konza? lets start there. Otherwise we might as well allow the ministry of transport to start a matatu business since matatus are a menace.


1. Is creating an ICT park wrong?

Its not wrong if right methods are used to develop a commercial park.Sameer along Msa road has developed one. EPZA Kitengela have another.

2. We all complain that doing business in the city is unbearable the man hrs lost in traffic are just too much, one way of solving the issue is decongesting, now if govt proposes some zoned area on the opposite direction of the city, what is so wrong with that?

Its not wrong for Govt to zone Konza. All the Govt needs to to is to Zone Konza into a commercial city even without buying the land. Zoning controls ride over ownership i.e if an area is zoned educational commercial,all land owners have to comply.
Govt does not have to buy the land first to effect the zoning controls.


3. Well well...If we lack talent and 18 local and international universities want to set up talent incubators what is so wrong with the govt facilitating that? Again, do you believe the likes of seven seas craft silicon and cellulant would be attracting business across Africa without the talent?

The 18 universities can look for land at Konza that Govt has already zoned as educational,negotiate with the land owners and set up their universities without Govt buying the land for them then reselling.Islamic Uni, Daystar, Kampala uni have already done that in the Konza neighbourhood.


May be if we try to answer the above questions we will move on with a sober debate.

As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
alma
#135 Posted : Thursday, April 12, 2012 8:42:53 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
1. Is creating an ICT park wrong?

That is a great idea past its time. We have to. What we are having here is a debate on the quickest way there.

My view is that 300k spent on buying a plot would be better spent on educating or funding another iHub in Kisumu. Invest in the mind first, they will build their own houses.

2. one way of solving the issue is decongesting,

Those who've ever been to ADD know that Nairobi is one of the best planned cities in Africa. The issue is not the planning, the issue with nairobi has always been implementation.

Look at all the unplanned, unregulated buildings and roads in this city. It is the fault of those who are charged with the duty to ensure that bylaws, planning laws and others are followed.

Are they doing their work?

I say again, unless you solve the problem in Nairobi, it will be transported to Konza.

3. seven seas craft silicon and cellulant would be attracting business across Africa without the talent?

First the three you have mentioned were not started in Konza so just showing you don't need Konza to do IT.

Second, these 3 cannot fill up Times Tower, let alone 5000 acres.

Lastly, the idea of attracting BPO companies is strongly against an idea of developing ICT talent. Look at the ones in Kenya right now...They hire call centre workers and typists.


We have a gov't signalling that we wish to be cheap labour. That is very very dangerous. We wish to have a Kenyan with the next Facebook, not a town of call girls.

I'm strongly of the opinion that gov't funds would have been better used in growing strong IT talent.

Education, laws and financing to entreprenuers in this sector will go a long long way.

I want you to quote me on this in a few years.

After Konza is finished, the ict companies that are Kenyan owned will have their companies somewhere in Tatu city, Ngong Road, Juja Road rather than Konza. Please quote me anywhere and everywhere you wish.

I challenge the ICT Board again not to go to another seminar abroad spending public funds but to fund someone like Idd Salim or the Akira Chix. They will build Konza on their own.

As you mull all that, did you know that in Cambridge the IT companies there are mostly housed in wooden buildings?

You don't hear the Gov. of Massachusetts insisting that the state build modern high rises. The state instead invests in the fire department to make sure those wooden houses don't burn to the ground.

Once they make some money, the IT companies build their own houses not the Governor.

Solve the problem. That is thinking BIG.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
jamplu
#136 Posted : Thursday, April 12, 2012 8:52:46 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 3/25/2010
Posts: 939
Location: Nai
murchr wrote:
alma wrote:
It doesn't matter if you do things your way or another person's way. If it is the wrong way it is the wrong way.

Now saying we don't want to copy and paste is rather strange. Considering that we wish to copy and paste other country's technology cities

There has to be an extra reason why Konza is using public funding.

If it is because Nairobi cannot attract investors because of fire hoses, then the problem is not Nairobi, the problem is bureaucrats who don't follow laid down regulations which are going to be copied in Konza. so instead of creating a new city, then fire the bueracrats.

If the problem is lack of ict talent, then don't create a city, work with the ministry of education to come up with a working model to churn out it guys.

We are solving the wrong problems here.

What is the problem being solved at Konza? lets start there. Otherwise we might as well allow the ministry of transport to start a matatu business since matatus are a menace.


1. Is creating an ICT park wrong?

2. We all complain that doing business in the city is unbearable the man hrs lost in traffic are just too much, one way of solving the issue is decongesting, now if govt proposes some zoned area on the opposite direction of the city, what is so wrong with that?

3. Well well...If we lack talent and 18 local and international universities want to set up talent incubators what is so wrong with the govt facilitating that? Again, do you believe the likes of seven seas craft silicon and cellulant would be attracting business across Africa without the talent?

May be if we try to answer the above questions we will move on with a sober debate.


@Muchr My take on item 3. There is talent in Kenya I know this because I have been involved in nurturing this talent. I know the 3 companies you have mentioned and i know their abilities because I compete with them ...they know their stuff as well. The problem with some people is they will only believe there is capacity when they see another SAP or a microsoft dynamic like product from kenya we don't need that if you look and the trend the small start-ups are taking is that of solving the problems kenyans face if someone thinks there are no solutions go to iHubs rolodex and see the list and i picked one company http://www.icontrace.com/ a farmer doesn't need adobe as someone was suggesting we buy adobe they need such a solution as offered by that small company there.
alma
#137 Posted : Thursday, April 12, 2012 9:04:06 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
@jamplu I believed my father was a large scale maize farmer with his 100 acres until I saw a small scale farmer in the US with 10,000 acres. I said small scale.

Same case with ICT. We have to scale up to be considered an IT hub. Not 300 people at iHub. They can't fill a floor at facebook hq.

You can't scale up with buildings, they have finite space. You can scale up with the mind, it is infinite. Lets invest in the minds of Kenyans. All of them not those blessed enough to pay a monthly fee at iHub.

Let's get serious here.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
a4architect.com
#138 Posted : Thursday, April 12, 2012 9:47:59 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@alma..true.The mind is infinite.
The reason why Nairobi lowers cost of production for ICT sector is coz the venture capitalist living in Runda can meet with the start up developer who lives in a 10x10 at Kangemi.

Likewise, a Nairobi venture capitalist will also be able to meet a Nakuru or Mombasa based start up developer well in Nairobi.

Accommodation in Nairobi varies greatly from the Ngara 300 per nights to Serena 30,000 per night.

Nairobi serves all classes of people. You can have lunch at the lowest price next to Serena hotel.

This accelerates growth in ICT start ups whereby the Kangemi developer will be productive enough to generate wealth which will propell him to live in Runda.

Nairobi as a city and Hub will eventually extend till Konza over time as railway systems and other efficient transport methods link the two.

Konza as a city will take time before it can cater for the needs of diverse economic classes as Nairobi does.

Since rents will all be high, productivity will be high too hence ICT investors will prefer wherever they can produce at lower costs.

ICT sector is also peculiar in that work can be done in the cloud, without necessarily having to meet face to face, thereby allowing programmers to work in remote locations which they deem affordable.

A good example of this is the Malaysian Putrajaya city which has still not been able to lower production costs for business people even after 10 years of existence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putrajaya
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
jamplu
#139 Posted : Thursday, April 12, 2012 9:53:53 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 3/25/2010
Posts: 939
Location: Nai
alma wrote:
@jamplu I believed my father was a large scale maize farmer with his 100 acres until I saw a small scale farmer in the US with 10,000 acres. I said small scale.

Same case with ICT. We have to scale up to be considered an IT hub. Not 300 people at iHub. They can't fill a floor at facebook hq.

You can't scale up with buildings, they have finite space. You can scale up with the mind, it is infinite. Lets invest in the minds of Kenyans. All of them not those blessed enough to pay a monthly fee at iHub.

Let's get serious here.


@alma there is saying where i come from that you don't climb a tree from the top you start from the bottom. ihub and the rest of the incubation centers is our starting point. what if each of the 300 leaving ihub each started a start-up and assume 150 of them failed we have 150 start-ups what if each employed 10 that == a growing ICT sector and your Konza city will be filled up in 10 years
Lets look at your facebook example how many people started it or even Apple and the rest with large campuses these started in dorm rooms and garages.

Most of the IT companies are no longer waiting for graduates with 100% capacity they have stepped up by training new entrant so stop thinking nothing is happening in terms of building capacity.
eco
#140 Posted : Thursday, April 12, 2012 10:14:24 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/17/2011
Posts: 229
a4architect.com wrote:
@alma..true.The mind is infinite.
The reason why Nairobi lowers cost of production for ICT sector is coz the venture capitalist living in Runda can meet with the start up developer who lives in a 10x10 at Kangemi.

Likewise, a Nairobi venture capitalist will also be able to meet a Nakuru or Mombasa based start up developer well in Nairobi.

Accommodation in Nairobi varies greatly from the Ngara 300 per nights to Serena 30,000 per night.

Nairobi serves all classes of people. You can have lunch at the lowest price next to Serena hotel.

This accelerates growth in ICT start ups whereby the Kangemi developer will be productive enough to generate wealth which will propell him to live in Runda.

Nairobi as a city and Hub will eventually extend till Konza over time as railway systems and other efficient transport methods link the two.

Konza as a city will take time before it can cater for the needs of diverse economic classes as Nairobi does.

Since rents will all be high, productivity will be high too hence ICT investors will prefer wherever they can produce at lower costs.

ICT sector is also peculiar in that work can be done in the cloud, without necessarily having to meet face to face, thereby allowing programmers to work in remote locations which they deem affordable.

A good example of this is the Malaysian Putrajaya city which has still not been able to lower production costs for business people even after 10 years of existence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putrajaya


@a4architect I can't agree more. If GoK ever gets Konza built up, and they can, it will just be a piece of real estate, not necessarily an ICT Hub. Many of the ICT startups in Kenya may not even afford the rents or mortgages for the office space and residential accommodations in the 'new city'. The Sameer Park vacancy rate up to now should serves as a lesson, unless they are looking for foreign players like Google. Instead of committing billions to buy land in Konza, GoK would rather have invested in an ICT oriented University Campus or College and develop talent and skills in Kenya that are already evident in the Apps and Solutions being developed daily in the country. ICT Hub is in the mind, not in a sky scrapper. The former precedes the latter.
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