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KENOL KOBIL .... 2012
hisah
#2281 Posted : Thursday, November 29, 2012 3:29:33 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
Shaping up in an interesting way as per foreign bids since Sept. I still expect a shakeout as the year 2012 results are disclosed. If they manage to reduce the H1 loss by 40% then the shakeout phase will likely not occur.
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
sparkly
#2282 Posted : Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:38:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Jacob S. say something!
Life is short. Live passionately.
King G
#2283 Posted : Thursday, November 29, 2012 6:14:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2012
Posts: 3,855
Location: Othumo
PUMA must be scared stiff with the politiking going on Sad Sad
Thieves
guru267
#2284 Posted : Monday, December 03, 2012 9:24:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
www.businessdailyafrica....4/-/p3rxccz/-/index.html

@VVS things are thick!!
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
VituVingiSana
#2285 Posted : Monday, December 03, 2012 11:58:45 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,110
Location: Nairobi
guru267 wrote:
www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/KenolKobil-loses-market-lead-to-Total-/-/539550/1635634/-/p3rxccz/-/index.html

@VVS things are thick!!
Total 21.5% KK 21.4% so I am not worried about 0.1% furthermore KK phased out Deal Poa so that means the 21.4% may be far more profitable Applause
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
guru267
#2286 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2012 6:21:52 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
Total 21.5% KK 21.4% so I am not worried about 0.1%


Only you can downplay a 4% loss in market share by KK.. But the sad thing is that i remember how much noise you were making when they gained 4% over total!

Objectivity out and bias in!!

This marriage you have to KK stock is most probably a match made in hell Sad
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
mwekez@ji
#2287 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2012 9:13:59 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 5,121
@guru, nothing to worry. Trust @VVS #KK phased out Deal Poa promotion so that means the 21.4% may be far more profitable
VituVingiSana
#2288 Posted : Tuesday, December 04, 2012 10:27:18 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,110
Location: Nairobi
guru267 wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Total 21.5% KK 21.4% so I am not worried about 0.1%


Only you can downplay a 4% loss in market share by KK.. But the sad thing is that i remember how much noise you were making when they gained 4% over total!

Objectivity out and bias in!!

This marriage you have to KK stock is most probably a match made in hell Sad
Please post or link to the "i remember how much noise you were making when they gained 4% over total!" Pap!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
guru267
#2289 Posted : Wednesday, December 05, 2012 12:28:15 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
Please post or link to the "i remember how much noise you were making when they gained 4% over total!" Pap!


Here is something small i found:

VituVingiSana on 28/11/2011 wrote:
I have a strong hunch that KKs market share (in Kenya) will be the highest it has ever been in 2011..
www.wazua.co.ke/forum.as...sts&t=6456&p=107


Or this one!

VituVingiSana on 06/04/12 wrote:
Gasp! KK is my retirement plan ;-)
1) Will KK benefit from Turkana oil? YES. How? Coz econ activity will increase & KK is Kenya's #1 OMC

www.wazua.co.ke/forum.as...osts&t=18150&p=2


so it mattered before but doesn't matter now that they have lost top spot!
Shame on you
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
dunkang
#2290 Posted : Wednesday, December 05, 2012 7:21:04 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,818
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
guru267 wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Total 21.5% KK 21.4% so I am not worried about 0.1%


Only you can downplay a 4% loss in market share by KK.. But the sad thing is that i remember how much noise you were making when they gained 4% over total!

Objectivity out and bias in!!

This marriage you have to KK stock is most probably a match made in hell Sad


very true @guru. I find it very strange when wazuans 'fall in love' with a stock and start giving strange prophesies. KCB, HFCK and KK followers are very strange guys IMHO.

At the NSE, just make your money and waiting for the next bus.

@ALL, NEVER FALL IN LOVE WITH A STOCK
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

Bettertry
#2291 Posted : Wednesday, December 05, 2012 5:29:27 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/19/2010
Posts: 237
Location: Republic of Graham & Doddsville
guru267 wrote:
www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/KenolKobil-loses-market-lead-to-Total-/-/539550/1635634/-/p3rxccz/-/index.html

@VVS things are thick!!

This just a bump if anything things will be thicker the day KK will lose its overall REGIONAL market to Total or any other oil company for that matter. Yeah, I know a huge chunk of their profit comes from this market but u can thank God for the mngt diversifying & going the regional way!!!
We Will Either Find a Way or Create One - HANNIBAL
VituVingiSana
#2292 Posted : Wednesday, December 05, 2012 10:38:47 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,110
Location: Nairobi
guru267 wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Please post or link to the "i remember how much noise you were making when they gained 4% over total!" Pap!


Here is something small i found:

VituVingiSana on 28/11/2011 wrote:
I have a strong hunch that KKs market share (in Kenya) will be the highest it has ever been in 2011..
www.wazua.co.ke/forum.as...sts&t=6456&p=107


Or this one!

VituVingiSana on 06/04/12 wrote:
Gasp! KK is my retirement plan ;-)
1) Will KK benefit from Turkana oil? YES. How? Coz econ activity will increase & KK is Kenya's #1 OMC

www.wazua.co.ke/forum.as...osts&t=18150&p=2


so it mattered before but doesn't matter now that they have lost top spot!
Shame on you

1) It was a statement. And for 2011. Not for 2012. So I do not get your point.
2) Yes, Turkana oil will help KK. Yes, I expect econ activity will increase. Yes, as of 06/04/2012 KK was Kenya's #1 OMC.

So Total is ahead by 0.1% in Kenya over KK which is statistically insignificant. Good for Total. Let's hope they convert that into a profit. I expect KK to make a profit in 2H 2012.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#2293 Posted : Wednesday, December 05, 2012 10:47:21 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,110
Location: Nairobi
dunkang wrote:
guru267 wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Total 21.5% KK 21.4% so I am not worried about 0.1%


Only you can downplay a 4% loss in market share by KK.. But the sad thing is that i remember how much noise you were making when they gained 4% over total!

Objectivity out and bias in!!

This marriage you have to KK stock is most probably a match made in hell Sad


very true @guru. I find it very strange when wazuans 'fall in love' with a stock and start giving strange prophesies. KCB, HFCK and KK followers are very strange guys IMHO.

At the NSE, just make your money and waiting for the next bus.

@ALL, NEVER FALL IN LOVE WITH A STOCK
I am a Buffetterian & I think KK has a solid management with a great track record (with bumps) but will come out ahead. In WB's words... if the NSE shut down for 10yrs, I would be a-OK. Since the NSE is 'open' I would accept 20 from Puma. Pray Pray Pray
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
the deal
#2294 Posted : Wednesday, December 05, 2012 11:27:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
Offcourse the strategy of offering discounts to gain market share is not sustainable especially if the discounts are not coming from efficiency gains i.e low direct operating costs and overheards...customers will always go back the moment you stop the discounts since they will be eating into your margins...I believe KK should become number 1 in Kenya by developing a competitive advantage over its rivals like Total i.e through innovation, customer care etc...I'm sure Puma will not be impressed with this latest development!
Jamani
#2295 Posted : Wednesday, December 05, 2012 11:40:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/12/2006
Posts: 1,554
the deal wrote:
Offcourse the strategy of offering discounts to gain market share is not sustainable especially if the discounts are not coming from efficiency gains i.e low direct operating costs and overheards...customers will always go back the moment you stop the discounts since they will be eating into your margins...I believe KK should become number 1 in Kenya by developing a competitive advantage over its rivals like Total i.e through innovation, customer care etc...I'm sure Puma will not be impressed with this latest development!


Meaning??? they will pull out or they will start strategizing on being the market leader ?....
the deal
#2296 Posted : Wednesday, December 05, 2012 11:53:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
Jamani wrote:
the deal wrote:
Offcourse the strategy of offering discounts to gain market share is not sustainable especially if the discounts are not coming from efficiency gains i.e low direct operating costs and overheards...customers will always go back the moment you stop the discounts since they will be eating into your margins...I believe KK should become number 1 in Kenya by developing a competitive advantage over its rivals like Total i.e through innovation, customer care etc...I'm sure Puma will not be impressed with this latest development!


Meaning??? they will pull out or they will start strategizing on being the market leader ?....

Off course they will not pull out, why would they? they're buying a cheap asset....by pulling out they will be missing a chance of a life time...with Puma comes the economies of scale i.e better inventory management and expertise...that will give them a competitive advantage and hopefully make them number one again...but in terms of PR the market share loss is not good...imagine starting out buying the leader and then along the way of negotiations you are now buying number 2?
VituVingiSana
#2297 Posted : Thursday, December 06, 2012 2:53:42 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,110
Location: Nairobi
the deal wrote:
Offcourse the strategy of offering discounts to gain market share is not sustainable especially if the discounts are not coming from efficiency gains i.e low direct operating costs and overheards...customers will always go back the moment you stop the discounts since they will be eating into your margins...I believe KK should become number 1 in Kenya by developing a competitive advantage over its rivals like Total i.e through innovation, customer care etc...I'm sure Puma will not be impressed with this latest development!

There is 'core' market share & 'other' deals. Banks like core (cheaper) deposits vs wholesale/other (expensive) deposits.

Likewise, the K-Card has been adopted by many firms & individuals which makes many of them 'core' customers who still get 2/- per liter discount. The 'other' market will fill up where convenient.

A 'core' customer [K-Card] will plan his trip (or even drive) to a KK station. I do so to get my 2/- & it 'wastes' a few minutes vs paying cash.

An 'other' customer with whom I was on the road yesterday doesn't care. He pulled into a Total coz it was closer by 50 meters. To him there is no difference between Total & KK since he is paying cash & the same price.

The market share also includes deals to supply KenGen [Total has always been a major supplier to KenGen] for thermal generation since the rains are iffy. I do not have PIEA's detailed breakdown on the split between (competitive) thermal supplies, (low margin) jet fuel & diesel/petrol for cars.

What does Puma want? It wants KK for its regional reach (not just Kenya) since Puma is already in some of these markets. My interest would be to find out what is KK's volume sales in 2012 vs 2011 regionally. A smart OMC will sell where the margins are better (e.g. in UG instead of KE) just like many sugarcane farmers who sell the cane to the highest bidder!

KK does OTS imports & private imports. The private imports can be exported since there is no obligation to sell it locally. The OTS (as I understand it) has to be sold locally. Therefore, if KK can get a better price in UG, then exports it to UG. Note that KK has a major constraint of limited storage space so it has to select where the returns are better to maximize profits.

KK is no different from any other firm e.g. KQ, EABL, BAT which has to (& should) close unprofitable routes/brands where it cannot scale/ascend into profitability.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#2298 Posted : Thursday, December 06, 2012 3:01:26 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,110
Location: Nairobi
My Bottomline: If the NSE were to 'close down' for 10 years, would I regret having 'frozen' KK shares? No.
The best example I can give is Carbacid which had a great management, 'unique' product & kept on pumping out good profits while the shares were suspended. After the suspension was lifted, the price caught up to the earnings.

KK (as it is constituted now) has a great (not perfect) management with excellent assets. It should return more than 15% annually in a bumpy fashion.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#2299 Posted : Thursday, December 06, 2012 3:41:46 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,110
Location: Nairobi
From Kestrel about Total:

"...sales volumes increasing 13.7% y/y to 779KMT. The increase in sales volume was mainly due to sales to other oil marketing companies
under the Open Tender Systems (OTS).
"

"The company has won several contracts to supply the oil
industry with refined products under the OTS agreement."
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Jamani
#2300 Posted : Thursday, December 06, 2012 8:26:28 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/12/2006
Posts: 1,554
the deal wrote:
Jamani wrote:
the deal wrote:
I'm sure Puma will not be impressed with this latest development!


Meaning??? they will pull out or they will start strategizing on being the market leader ?....

Off course they will not pull out, why would they? they're buying a cheap asset....imagine starting out buying the leader and then along the way of negotiations you are now buying number 2?


Shouldnt this latest development impress Puma? based on your own words (why would they? they're buying a cheap asset....)
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