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KenGen’s Kes 141 Billion Rights Offer to Quadruple Shares in Issue
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murchr
#201 Posted : Saturday, March 07, 2015 5:48:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Aguytrying wrote:
sorovi wrote:
Rights postponed to August from June


why can't they get approval then tell us there's a rights issue! its 2 years down the line, since it was first announced .


They could be negotiating with some bigwig to acquire some of GOK's holding.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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lochaz-index
#202 Posted : Saturday, March 07, 2015 7:01:27 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/18/2014
Posts: 1,127
murchr wrote:
Aguytrying wrote:
sorovi wrote:
Rights postponed to August from June


why can't they get approval then tell us there's a rights issue! its 2 years down the line, since it was first announced .


They could be negotiating with some bigwig to acquire some of GOK's holding.


Interesting angle but i would aver that the bigwig would hold out for a controlling stake to take the company by the scruff and steer it his way otherwise he would end with an EAPC like scenario. @aguy am not ruling out all strategic investors buy in just the local ones unless its for a speculative hunt.
The main purpose of the stock market is to make fools of as many people as possible.
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murchr
#203 Posted : Saturday, March 07, 2015 8:34:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
lochaz-index wrote:
murchr wrote:
Aguytrying wrote:
sorovi wrote:
Rights postponed to August from June


why can't they get approval then tell us there's a rights issue! its 2 years down the line, since it was first announced .


They could be negotiating with some bigwig to acquire some of GOK's holding.


Interesting angle but i would aver that the bigwig would hold out for a controlling stake to take the company by the scruff and steer it his way otherwise he would end with an EAPC like scenario. @aguy am not ruling out all strategic investors buy in just the local ones unless its for a speculative hunt.


What do you mean?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
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lochaz-index
#204 Posted : Saturday, March 07, 2015 8:54:04 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/18/2014
Posts: 1,127
murchr wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:
murchr wrote:
Aguytrying wrote:
sorovi wrote:
Rights postponed to August from June


why can't they get approval then tell us there's a rights issue! its 2 years down the line, since it was first announced .


They could be negotiating with some bigwig to acquire some of GOK's holding.


Interesting angle but i would aver that the bigwig would hold out for a controlling stake to take the company by the scruff and steer it his way otherwise he would end with an EAPC like scenario. @aguy am not ruling out all strategic investors buy in just the local ones unless its for a speculative hunt.


What do you mean?


If a bigshot wants in on this stock why would he get in holding the short end of the stick vs govt holding?
The main purpose of the stock market is to make fools of as many people as possible.
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murchr
#205 Posted : Saturday, March 07, 2015 9:30:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
lochaz-index wrote:
murchr wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:
murchr wrote:
Aguytrying wrote:
sorovi wrote:
Rights postponed to August from June


why can't they get approval then tell us there's a rights issue! its 2 years down the line, since it was first announced .


They could be negotiating with some bigwig to acquire some of GOK's holding.


Interesting angle but i would aver that the bigwig would hold out for a controlling stake to take the company by the scruff and steer it his way otherwise he would end with an EAPC like scenario. @aguy am not ruling out all strategic investors buy in just the local ones unless its for a speculative hunt.


What do you mean?


If a bigshot wants in on this stock why would he get in holding the short end of the stick vs govt holding?


The govt holds 70% the only way of getting in big is by convincing them to sell you some of its holding
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
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guru267
#206 Posted : Sunday, March 08, 2015 9:34:49 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:
murchr wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:
murchr wrote:
Aguytrying wrote:
sorovi wrote:
Rights postponed to August from June


why can't they get approval then tell us there's a rights issue! its 2 years down the line, since it was first announced .


They could be negotiating with some bigwig to acquire some of GOK's holding.


Interesting angle but i would aver that the bigwig would hold out for a controlling stake to take the company by the scruff and steer it his way otherwise he would end with an EAPC like scenario. @aguy am not ruling out all strategic investors buy in just the local ones unless its for a speculative hunt.


What do you mean?


If a bigshot wants in on this stock why would he get in holding the short end of the stick vs govt holding?


The govt holds 70% the only way of getting in big is by convincing them to sell you some of its holding


If GOK sells 100% of its rights to like GE and retains what it has GE will end up owning 53% and GOK will retain 17.5%...

That sounds like a good enough deal to me"
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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lochaz-index
#207 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 7:40:52 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/18/2014
Posts: 1,127
guru267 wrote:
murchr wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:
murchr wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:
murchr wrote:
Aguytrying wrote:
sorovi wrote:
Rights postponed to August from June


why can't they get approval then tell us there's a rights issue! its 2 years down the line, since it was first announced .


They could be negotiating with some bigwig to acquire some of GOK's holding.


Interesting angle but i would aver that the bigwig would hold out for a controlling stake to take the company by the scruff and steer it his way otherwise he would end with an EAPC like scenario. @aguy am not ruling out all strategic investors buy in just the local ones unless its for a speculative hunt.


What do you mean?


If a bigshot wants in on this stock why would he get in holding the short end of the stick vs govt holding?


The govt holds 70% the only way of getting in big is by convincing them to sell you some of its holding


If GOK sells 100% of its rights to like GE and retains what it has GE will end up owning 53% and GOK will retain 17.5%...

That sounds like a good enough deal to me"


@murchr thats the general idea. Anything less than 50% you are handicapped.
The main purpose of the stock market is to make fools of as many people as possible.
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mkonomtupu
#208 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 11:00:28 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/10/2010
Posts: 1,001
Location: River Road
guru267 wrote:
murchr wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:
murchr wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:
murchr wrote:
Aguytrying wrote:
sorovi wrote:
Rights postponed to August from June


why can't they get approval then tell us there's a rights issue! its 2 years down the line, since it was first announced .


They could be negotiating with some bigwig to acquire some of GOK's holding.


Interesting angle but i would aver that the bigwig would hold out for a controlling stake to take the company by the scruff and steer it his way otherwise he would end with an EAPC like scenario. @aguy am not ruling out all strategic investors buy in just the local ones unless its for a speculative hunt.


What do you mean?


If a bigshot wants in on this stock why would he get in holding the short end of the stick vs govt holding?


The govt holds 70% the only way of getting in big is by convincing them to sell you some of its holding


If GOK sells 100% of its rights to like GE and retains what it has GE will end up owning 53% and GOK will retain 17.5%...

That sounds like a good enough deal to me"


Why would GoK cede over 150 billion worth of kengen assets built over 50 years for a paltry 18.2 billion (70% of kengen current market value of 26b) d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!
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Ericsson
#209 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 12:52:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,703
Location: NAIROBI
Gava is not ceding any stake in the company
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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VituVingiSana
#210 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 6:00:17 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,134
Location: Nairobi
mkonomtupu wrote:
guru267 wrote:
murchr wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:
murchr wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:
murchr wrote:
Aguytrying wrote:
sorovi wrote:
Rights postponed to August from June


why can't they get approval then tell us there's a rights issue! its 2 years down the line, since it was first announced .


They could be negotiating with some bigwig to acquire some of GOK's holding.


Interesting angle but i would aver that the bigwig would hold out for a controlling stake to take the company by the scruff and steer it his way otherwise he would end with an EAPC like scenario. @aguy am not ruling out all strategic investors buy in just the local ones unless its for a speculative hunt.


What do you mean?


If a bigshot wants in on this stock why would he get in holding the short end of the stick vs govt holding?


The govt holds 70% the only way of getting in big is by convincing them to sell you some of its holding


If GOK sells 100% of its rights to like GE and retains what it has GE will end up owning 53% and GOK will retain 17.5%...

That sounds like a good enough deal to me"


Why would GoK cede over 150 billion worth of kengen assets built over 50 years for a paltry 18.2 billion (70% of kengen current market value of 26b) d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!

Please explain your logic to me.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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lochaz-index
#211 Posted : Monday, March 09, 2015 7:40:54 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/18/2014
Posts: 1,127
VituVingiSana wrote:
mkonomtupu wrote:
guru267 wrote:
murchr wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:
murchr wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:
murchr wrote:
Aguytrying wrote:
sorovi wrote:
Rights postponed to August from June


why can't they get approval then tell us there's a rights issue! its 2 years down the line, since it was first announced .


They could be negotiating with some bigwig to acquire some of GOK's holding.


Interesting angle but i would aver that the bigwig would hold out for a controlling stake to take the company by the scruff and steer it his way otherwise he would end with an EAPC like scenario. @aguy am not ruling out all strategic investors buy in just the local ones unless its for a speculative hunt.


What do you mean?


If a bigshot wants in on this stock why would he get in holding the short end of the stick vs govt holding?


The govt holds 70% the only way of getting in big is by convincing them to sell you some of its holding


If GOK sells 100% of its rights to like GE and retains what it has GE will end up owning 53% and GOK will retain 17.5%...

That sounds like a good enough deal to me"


Why would GoK cede over 150 billion worth of kengen assets built over 50 years for a paltry 18.2 billion (70% of kengen current market value of 26b) d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!

Please explain your logic to me.


@mkonomtupu when you want to buy/sell a company do you only look at the asset column? As regards the price, the buy in will not necessarily be done at market price especially considering its trading at a discount vs NAV.
The main purpose of the stock market is to make fools of as many people as possible.
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mkonomtupu
#212 Posted : Tuesday, March 10, 2015 11:49:33 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/10/2010
Posts: 1,001
Location: River Road
VituVingiSana wrote:
mkonomtupu wrote:
guru267 wrote:
murchr wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:
murchr wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:
murchr wrote:
Aguytrying wrote:
sorovi wrote:
Rights postponed to August from June


why can't they get approval then tell us there's a rights issue! its 2 years down the line, since it was first announced .


They could be negotiating with some bigwig to acquire some of GOK's holding.


Interesting angle but i would aver that the bigwig would hold out for a controlling stake to take the company by the scruff and steer it his way otherwise he would end with an EAPC like scenario. @aguy am not ruling out all strategic investors buy in just the local ones unless its for a speculative hunt.


What do you mean?


If a bigshot wants in on this stock why would he get in holding the short end of the stick vs govt holding?


The govt holds 70% the only way of getting in big is by convincing them to sell you some of its holding


If GOK sells 100% of its rights to like GE and retains what it has GE will end up owning 53% and GOK will retain 17.5%...

That sounds like a good enough deal to me"


Why would GoK cede over 150 billion worth of kengen assets built over 50 years for a paltry 18.2 billion (70% of kengen current market value of 26b) d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!

Please explain your logic to me.


The authorized rights 2.215 billion 70% of that 1.550b rights for GoK. Kengen has been negotiation with GoK to convert 20 billion debt into equity which means they were targeting around 12-12.50 for the rights. It was expected Mr. Market would react to the half-year results but Mr. Market is only giving kengen a value of 26 billion.
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mkonomtupu
#213 Posted : Tuesday, March 10, 2015 11:56:15 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/10/2010
Posts: 1,001
Location: River Road
Quote:
@mkonomtupu when you want to buy/sell a company do you only look at the asset column? As regards the price, the buy in will not necessarily be done at market price especially considering its trading at a discount vs NAV.


This is not an ordinary company it's a strategic energy company there are other considerations at play. Kengen liabilities are mostly soft loans. If the buy in is targeting controlling majority then investor must pay a premium on the market. Anyway this all hypothetical because GoK will put in cash after the budget
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VituVingiSana
#214 Posted : Tuesday, March 10, 2015 1:40:42 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,134
Location: Nairobi
mkonomtupu wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
mkonomtupu wrote:
guru267 wrote:
murchr wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:
murchr wrote:
lochaz-index wrote:
murchr wrote:
Aguytrying wrote:
sorovi wrote:
Rights postponed to August from June


why can't they get approval then tell us there's a rights issue! its 2 years down the line, since it was first announced .


They could be negotiating with some bigwig to acquire some of GOK's holding.


Interesting angle but i would aver that the bigwig would hold out for a controlling stake to take the company by the scruff and steer it his way otherwise he would end with an EAPC like scenario. @aguy am not ruling out all strategic investors buy in just the local ones unless its for a speculative hunt.


What do you mean?


If a bigshot wants in on this stock why would he get in holding the short end of the stick vs govt holding?


The govt holds 70% the only way of getting in big is by convincing them to sell you some of its holding


If GOK sells 100% of its rights to like GE and retains what it has GE will end up owning 53% and GOK will retain 17.5%...

That sounds like a good enough deal to me"


Why would GoK cede over 150 billion worth of kengen assets built over 50 years for a paltry 18.2 billion (70% of kengen current market value of 26b) d'oh! d'oh! d'oh!

Please explain your logic to me.


The authorized rights 2.215 billion 70% of that 1.550b rights for GoK. Kengen has been negotiation with GoK to convert 20 billion debt into equity which means they were targeting around 12-12.50 for the rights. It was expected Mr. Market would react to the half-year results but Mr. Market is only giving kengen a value of 26 billion.

So the liabilities should be ignored?
Would a buyer (buying at 18.2bn) just get the assets & not the liabilities?
If one can get the assets, as described above, without the liabilities then I am sure local investors would happily pay 18.2bn for 150bn in net assets.
What happens to the liabilities?
What is the Net Asset Value of KenGen?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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mkonomtupu
#215 Posted : Tuesday, March 10, 2015 2:23:50 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/10/2010
Posts: 1,001
Location: River Road
Quote:
So the liabilities should be ignored?
Would a buyer (buying at 18.2bn) just get the assets & not the liabilities?
If one can get the assets, as described above, without the liabilities then I am sure local investors would happily pay 18.2bn for 150bn in net assets.
What happens to the liabilities?
What is the Net Asset Value of KenGen?


The major component of liabilities is 73b borrowings at low interest and mostly backed by GoK guarantee. would a private investor take over the sovereign debt and would the lenders even agree. GoK will continue to have a controlling majority in kengen for a longtime.

On the NAV- i have not calculated because it's not a useful tool for a company like kengen i prefer to look at dividend yield and the risk factors-liquidity, market and credit
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VituVingiSana
#216 Posted : Tuesday, March 10, 2015 6:42:28 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,134
Location: Nairobi
mkonomtupu wrote:
Quote:
So the liabilities should be ignored?
Would a buyer (buying at 18.2bn) just get the assets & not the liabilities?
If one can get the assets, as described above, without the liabilities then I am sure local investors would happily pay 18.2bn for 150bn in net assets.
What happens to the liabilities?
What is the Net Asset Value of KenGen?


The major component of liabilities is 73b borrowings at low interest and mostly backed by GoK guarantee. would a private investor take over the sovereign debt and would the lenders even agree. GoK will continue to have a controlling majority in kengen for a longtime.

On the NAV- i have not calculated because it's not a useful tool for a company like kengen i prefer to look at dividend yield and the risk factors-liquidity, market and credit

Well, a firm like GE or a Berkshire Entity taking on responsibility for the loans would be a better bet for lenders than GoK as a guarantor.
GE's pricing on its Jan 2015 loans is 50% of GoK's Sovereign Bond.
http://www.forbes.com/si...ffeirng-in-three-parts/
Berkshire Hathaway may even command lower rates than GE.

Ownership of KenGen is more of a political issue.

You have a point. It doesn't matter what the NAV is. What matters is the CASHFLOW. Not profits boosted by Tax Credits but CASH FLOW. And even more important, as you stated, CASH that is paid out as a dividend.

What's KenGen's dividend?
What's the dividend yield?
Can KenGen consistently grow its dividend?

What's the net (post-tax) return from KenGen's dividend vs the interest on a (Tax-free) KenGen Bond or Infrastructure Bond?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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TheGeek
#217 Posted : Wednesday, March 11, 2015 10:19:51 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/3/2014
Posts: 245
Kengen rights issue broth sweetening begins...

fine print is below

"the government could convert between Sh21 billion and
Sh28 billion of its loans into KenGen’s ordinary shares.
This will be part of the upcoming rights issue that will see the
power producer raise a total of Sh30 billion from shareholders"

more propaganda will follow....
In the world of securities, courage and patience become the supreme virtues after adequate knowledge and a tested judgment are at hand.
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sparkly
#218 Posted : Thursday, March 12, 2015 8:00:43 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
TheGeek wrote:
Kengen rights issue broth sweetening begins...

fine print is below

"the government could convert between Sh21 billion and
Sh28 billion of its loans into KenGen’s ordinary shares.
This will be part of the upcoming rights issue that will see the
power producer raise a total of Sh30 billion from shareholders"

more propaganda will follow....


2 for 1 Rights issue? All good since GOK gets the same deal with everyone else, unlike the case of Kenya Power where GOK converted its preference shares to take control of the Company.
Life is short. Live passionately.
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mthaka
#219 Posted : Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:33:08 PM
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Joined: 9/30/2013
Posts: 254
just read an advert on legal transaction adviser in the print media
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Sufficiently Philanga....thropic
#220 Posted : Friday, May 15, 2015 8:56:12 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2010
Posts: 2,221
Location: Sundowner,Amboseli
Kengen receives 2 awards at the just ended Africa Utility week 2015
Kengen scoops 2 awards
@SufficientlyP
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