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The pain of being These People
Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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Fullykenyan wrote:kaka2za wrote:Fullykenyan wrote:Many people from Central really don´t care who is the president. However, towards the 2007 elections, RAO had demonised Okuyus so much ,to a point of Okuyus getting scared of his presidency. As long as RAO is around, expect central to vote one of their own. it is that simple. They are not willing to have the same fate like jews had in Germany Hapo umesema. Inaitwa siege mentality.The 40 vs 1 strategy scared the Okuyus to the core! As I have stated before, RAO is the reason why many people vote. Many of us who are not even Okuyus but have one parent who is an Okuyu, decided to vote henceforth for an Okuyu for fear of what may befall one part of our parent. what a lame inexcusable excuse! If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/3/2014 Posts: 1,063
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harrydre wrote:washiku wrote:PeterReborn wrote:Impunity wrote:PeterReborn wrote:So Uhuru has cancelled the public barazas with these people because the ground is hostile.  He needs to go back to kisumu and get his votes from there.He will lose next years elections not because these people will vote for Risasi but because they will refuse to vote for him.Nothing tangible on the ground. The day these people will see sense and not vote for UK, I will eat my shoes! There is a lot of voter apathy.How many people have taken voters cards in central vs nyanza/western?The people of central are tired of being used as voting machines.Voting for people who dont give a f*** about the needs of the people. Wait until RAO-Phobia is unleashed. As long as RAO is running, they will always vote against him! Note that UK was never popular until he run against R1. The ground is hostile because UK seems to bow to R1's rants all the time. Waiguru is an example. Nope.The ground is hostile because the people are living in deplorable conditions and yet 'they are in the government'.The president is dishing out the goodies to those who didn't vote for him like in Mombasa,nyanza& western and nothing for central.They feel they are being taken like used condoms.Look at the state of the roads. Consistency is better than intensity
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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Fullykenyan wrote:Many people from Central really don´t care who is the president. However, towards the 2007 elections, RAO had demonised Okuyus so much ,to a point of Okuyus getting scared of his presidency. As long as RAO is around, expect central to vote one of their own. it is that simple. They are not willing to have the same fate like jews had in Germany I need to be informed and educated as I do not follow politics very closely. How did RAO demonize kikuyus? As I recall, during the 2005 referendum campaign, RAO and UK were on the same side and campaigned together. I even remember them attending many harambees and rallies together.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/3/2014 Posts: 1,063
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Alba wrote:Fullykenyan wrote:Many people from Central really don´t care who is the president. However, towards the 2007 elections, RAO had demonised Okuyus so much ,to a point of Okuyus getting scared of his presidency. As long as RAO is around, expect central to vote one of their own. it is that simple. They are not willing to have the same fate like jews had in Germany I need to be informed and educated as I do not follow politics very closely. How did RAO demonize kikuyus? As I recall, during the 2005 referendum campaign, RAO and UK were on the same side and campaigned together. I even remember them attending many harambees and rallies together. Uhuru is not Okuyus and Okuyus is not Uhuru.Not yet Uhuru Consistency is better than intensity
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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PeterReborn wrote:Uhuru is not Okuyus and Okuyus is not Uhuru.Not yet Uhuru I think you just made an excellent point. So lets take this a step further. If RAO criticized Kibaki, does this mean he is demonizing kikuyus? I am still curious to find out how exactly RAO demonizes kikuyus. Education please.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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In the 1960s, Kenyatta and Oginga were friends. The British wanted Oginga to be president. They thought Kenyatta would be bad. I believe the governor referred to Kenyatta as "The leader unto hell"
Oginga so believed in Kenyatta that he refused the British offer and insisted that Kenyatta must be released and become the 1st president.
Shortly after independence, the two fell out because Oginga accused Kenyatta of being a land grabber. Kenyatta retaliated by firing Oginga and convincing kikuyus that Oginga was trying to prevent the Agikuyu from being prosperous.
Agikuyu believed Kenyatta and Oginga became the most hated person in central province. With Oginga sidelined, Kenyatta was able to continue with his land grabbing scheme, removing kikuyus and resettling them in Nakuru or Nyandarua.
This is the root of hostility between kikuyus and luos. Things only got worse when Tom Mboya was gunned down in broad daylight.
Since there is so much hostility there, it is very easy even today for leaders to create distrust between the two groups if it will benefit them. They do this by demonizing other leaders. And even so called educated elites fall for it.
History keeps repeating itself. Even today, Kenyan tribal chiefs are busy turning people against each other so they can prosper.
Our leaders have succeed in convincing us that criticism against a tribal chief is criticism against the entire tribe. This allows the tribal chiefs to continue looting . Look at Ruto with the Mau complex land grabbing scheme. He was grabbing land near water towers. When accused he shouted that RAO has betrayed the kalenjin. many believed him. Such is the power of a tribal chief. IN RV especially, people have been conditioned to belive that the prosperity of their leaders is paramount to the success and pride of the people.
Its a shame because in Kenya today, everyone has a relative who belongs to another ethnic group. If you are kikuyu, chances are that you have a luo relative. If you are a luhya, chances are that you have a Kalenjin relative. And so forth. And when a tribal chief prospers via land grabbing or looting, the people he leads don't actually benefit. Some even become poorer. Some who are displaced end up living in hostile regions.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/3/2008 Posts: 4,057 Location: Gwitu
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The rain started beating us after 2005 referendum. Actually, there was bound to be bloodshed in 2007 regardless of who won. The political environment was poisoned and we are yet to cure that. Truth forever on the scaffold Wrong forever on the throne (James Russell Rowell)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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kaka2za wrote:The rain started beating us after 2005 referendum. Actually, there was bound to be bloodshed in 2007 regardless of who won. The political environment was poisoned and we are yet to cure that. The perception of being beaten by rain is because We have just been lied to by our leaders. The 2005 referendum was a rejection of a bad constitution. Uhuru Kenyatta was also was against the 2005 constitution. And even Kibaki later admitted that it was bad. How did people end up believing that the rejection of the 2005 constitution was a move against kikuyus? The answer is people were lied to by their leaders. As Kenyans we should be united against corruption and bad leadership. The average peasant of middle class fellow does not benefit when a person from their tribe steals. When anyone steals from the government, we all lose. Yet our leaders have conditioned us to believe that criticism of a tribal chief is a criticism of the whole tribe. This is what enables them to loot the treasury and grab land with abandon. They know they can depend on their tribe to support them.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/3/2008 Posts: 4,057 Location: Gwitu
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Alba wrote:kaka2za wrote:The rain started beating us after 2005 referendum. Actually, there was bound to be bloodshed in 2007 regardless of who won. The political environment was poisoned and we are yet to cure that. The perception of being beaten by rain is because We have just been lied to by our leaders. The 2005 referendum was a rejection of a bad constitution. Uhuru Kenyatta was also was against the 2005 constitution. And even Kibaki later admitted that it was bad. How did people end up believing that the rejection of the 2005 constitution was a move against kikuyus? The answer is people were lied to by their leaders. As Kenyans we should be united against corruption and bad leadership. The average peasant of middle class fellow does not benefit when a person from their tribe steals. When anyone steals from the government, we all lose. Yet our leaders have conditioned us to believe that criticism of a tribal chief is a criticism of the whole tribe. This is what enables them to loot the treasury and grab land with abandon. They know they can depend on their tribe to support them. I am convinced that you don't live in Kenya. If you were in Kenya between 2005 -2007 you would have felt the tension. The referendum was not the issue the aftermath was critical.The winners were ready to vanquish the enemy in 2007.Uhuru who had been in the Orange team soon realised the game had changed and he bolted. Referendums in Kenya have little to do with the issue at hand.They are used for political posturing. Ruto said as much in 2010. He didn't necessarily have anything about Katiba but it was perfect opportunity to establish his political base. Truth forever on the scaffold Wrong forever on the throne (James Russell Rowell)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/3/2008 Posts: 4,057 Location: Gwitu
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kaka2za wrote:Alba wrote:kaka2za wrote:The rain started beating us after 2005 referendum. Actually, there was bound to be bloodshed in 2007 regardless of who won. The political environment was poisoned and we are yet to cure that. The perception of being beaten by rain is because We have just been lied to by our leaders. The 2005 referendum was a rejection of a bad constitution. Uhuru Kenyatta was also was against the 2005 constitution. And even Kibaki later admitted that it was bad. How did people end up believing that the rejection of the 2005 constitution was a move against kikuyus? The answer is people were lied to by their leaders. As Kenyans we should be united against corruption and bad leadership. The average peasant of middle class fellow does not benefit when a person from their tribe steals. When anyone steals from the government, we all lose. Yet our leaders have conditioned us to believe that criticism of a tribal chief is a criticism of the whole tribe. This is what enables them to loot the treasury and grab land with abandon. They know they can depend on their tribe to support them. I am convinced that you don't live in Kenya. If you were in Kenya between 2005 -2007 you would have felt the tension. The referendum was not the issue but the aftermath was critical.The winners were ready to vanquish the enemy in 2007.Uhuru who had been in the Orange team soon realised the game had changed and he bolted. Referendums in Kenya have little to do with the issue at hand.They are used for political posturing. Ruto said as much in 2010. He didn't necessarily have anything against Katiba but it was perfect opportunity to establish his political base. Truth forever on the scaffold Wrong forever on the throne (James Russell Rowell)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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kaka2za wrote:
I am convinced that you don't live in Kenya. If you were in Kenya between 2005 -2007 you would have felt the tension. The referendum was not the issue the aftermath was critical.The winners were ready to vanquish the enemy in 2007.Uhuru who had been in the Orange team soon realised the game had changed and he bolted. Referendums in Kenya have little to do with the issue at hand.They are used for political posturing. Ruto said as much in 2010. He didn't necessarily have anything about Katiba but it was perfect opportunity to establish his political base.
Again the tribal tension is caused by our leaders who have pitted Kenyans against each other. And we fall for it every time. Perhaps that tension could have beeen diffused by drafting a better constitution and selling it on its merits. Instead the 2005 referendum was cast by our leaders in tribal terms. Both banana and Orange leaders were guilty of casting the vote in tribal terms. Our leaders told us which tribe would benefit from it and which ones would not. Thats what caused the tension. If we always think of issues in tribal terms then tribal tension is inevitable. The 2005 constitution was flawed. It should have been rejected by everyone. But not on tribal terms. If Kenyan culture was such that people voted on issues like corruption and security, there would be no tension. The 2002 elections and the 2010 referendum are examples of events that actually united Kenyans across the bitter divides. After the 2005 referendum, Kibaki is said to have been furious with his inner circle who basically lied to him due to selfish interests.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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Kibaki blew it. He won the 2002 election after having received wholehearted support from all Kenyan provinces. Kenyans were very united in 2002. Kibaki had a lot of goodwill. People in western, Nyanza and Coast turned out in droves to vote for Kibaki.
Instead of building on that unity and trust, Kibaki retreated back to his tribal coccoon this creating hostility.
The term coined by Nation newspapers "Mount Kenya mafia" was true. It was a recognition of the fact that Kibaki took all that goodwill and wasted it.
Similarly in 1963, Kenyans were united across all provinces. Kenyatta was riding a crest of popularity. Instead of building on that unity and goodwill, he retreated to his own tribal cocoon hence the term "kiambu mafia".
He managed to convince the people that the prosperity of a few people within the tribe is a source of pride for the whole tribe.
Funny how history repeats itself Each-time there is an opportunity to unite the nation and diffuse tribal tension, our leaders blow it. Then they convince us that their land grabbing and theft is goood for all members of the tribe.
And if a leader from another tribe intervenes, he is your enemy and should sidelined (Oginga) or he is a enemy who should be killed (Pinto, Mboya and maybe Ngala)
And if a leader from your own tribe intervenes, he is a traitor who should be killed (JM Kariuki) or he is a traitor who should be sidelined, rigged out of office and cast aside (Bildad Kaggia). Or if he is too stubborn, he should just be detained in jail without trial (Koigi Wamwere and others)
Somehow the leadership convinced the people that actions like murder, detention, and expulsion from the party were justified because they were in the best interests of the tribe.
Today in 2016 we still haven't learned. Even Boniface Mwangi is seen as an enemy by many on wazua. In reality Boniface Mwangi types who criticize both sides of the political equation are the kind of people who can unite Kenyans by making us more of an issue oriented people. Being tribe oriented only benefits a few elites.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/3/2008 Posts: 4,057 Location: Gwitu
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Alba wrote:Kibaki blew it. He won the 2002 election after having received wholehearted support from all Kenyan provinces. Kenyans were very united in 2002. Kibaki had a lot of goodwill. People in western, Nyanza and Coast turned out in droves to vote for Kibaki.
Instead of building on that unity and trust, Kibaki retreated back to his tribal coccoon this creating hostility.
The term coined by Nation newspapers "Mount Kenya mafia" was true. It was a recognition of the fact that Kibaki took all that goodwill and wasted it.
Similarly in 1963, Kenyans were united across all provinces. Kenyatta was riding a crest of popularity. Instead of building on that unity and goodwill, he retreated to his own tribal cocoon hence the term "kiambu mafia".
He managed to convince the people that the prosperity of a few people within the tribe is a source of pride for the whole tribe.
Funny how history repeats itself Each-time there is an opportunity to unite the nation and diffuse tribal tension, our leaders blow it. Then they convince us that their land grabbing and theft is goood for all members of the tribe.
And if a leader from another tribe intervenes, he is your enemy and should sidelined (Oginga) or he is a enemy who should be killed (Pinto, Mboya and maybe Ngala)
And if a leader from your own tribe intervenes, he is a traitor who should be killed (JM Kariuki) or he is a traitor who should be sidelined, rigged out of office and cast aside (Bildad Kaggia). Or if he is too stubborn, he should just be detained in jail without trial (Koigi Wamwere and others)
Somehow the leadership convinced the people that actions like murder, detention, and expulsion from the party were justified because they were in the best interests of the tribe.
Today in 2016 we still haven't learned. Even Boniface Mwangi is seen as an enemy by many on wazua. In reality Boniface Mwangi types who criticize both sides of the political equation are the kind of people who can unite Kenyans by making us more of an issue oriented people. Being tribe oriented only benefits a few elites.
A few incidents have had fatal consequences on our nation. We don't know how Moi would have turned out if the 82 Coup attempt hadn't happened. It appears he became despotic after that. Owing to the Machakos junction accident, the Kibaki Tosha at Uhuru park was not the same guy who was sworn in.The vacuum was quickly filled by the mafia and they quickly created an enemy in the erstwhile friend and chief campaigner. The referendum was payback time. There was no way there was ever going to be a compromise. I still believe we only got a new constitution due to PEV Truth forever on the scaffold Wrong forever on the throne (James Russell Rowell)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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On the 1982 coup Moi knew about the 1982 coup at least months in advance. he even knew the exact date. Please read up on it. According to this Daily nation article, the special branch asked Moi if they could arrest the coup plotters and Moi refused. The reason Moi let the coup happen is because he wanted to use the coup as an excuse to clamp down harder on dissidents, rid his cabinet of powerful people like Njonjo and detain potential trouble makers like RAO. He also wanted to purge the military and police of powerful men from the Jomo Kenyatta regime like the original Ben Gethi who was chief of police and also Maj Gen Kariuki who was AirForce commander. I think even Bernard Hinga was tossed into Kamiti maximum for a brief period. Most importantly he wanted to justify the decision to make Kenya a one-party state. Moi knew deep down that a group of delusional Airforce privates were never going to be able to stage a succesful coup d'etat. This tactic of letting a coup happen has been used by African leaders before. Obote did it in Uganda in the late 1960s. But the most sensational example happened in 1965 in Zaire. Mobutu used a colonel Bangala to infiltrate the opposition and goad them into plotting a coup. He then accused them of treason and hang them in public. It is known as the pentecost hangings. Some of these were former cabinet members like Evariste Kimba. Once again our leaders are very adept at fooling us. The 1982 coup was Moi's making but he succeeded in convincing the public that other people were at fault. The episode made Moi very popular and justified his actions.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/3/2008 Posts: 4,057 Location: Gwitu
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Alba wrote:On the 1982 coup Moi knew about the 1982 coup at least months in advance. he even knew the exact date. Please read up on it. According to this Daily nation article, the special branch asked Moi if they could arrest the coup plotters and Moi refused. The reason Moi let the coup happen is because he wanted to use the coup as an excuse to clamp down harder on dissidents, rid his cabinet of powerful people like Njonjo and detain potential trouble makers like RAO. He also wanted to purge the military and police of powerful men from the Jomo Kenyatta regime like the original Ben Gethi who was chief of police and also Maj Gen Kariuki who was AirForce commander. Most importantly he wanted to justify the decision to make Kenya a one-party state. Moi knew deep down that a group of delusional Airforce privates were never going to be able to stage a succesful coup d'etat. This tactic of letting a coup happen has been used by African leaders before. Obote did it in Uganda in the late 1960s. But the most sensational example happened in 1965 in Zaire. Mobutu used a colonel Bangala to infiltrate the opposition and goad them into plotting a coup. He then used the excuse of their supposed coup plot to hang them in public. It is known as the pentecost hangings. Some of these were former cabinet members like Evariste Kimba. Once again our leaders are very adept at fooling us. The 1982 coup was Moi's making but he succeeded in convincing the public that other people were at fault. I concur with your take on 'artificial coups' but I think the 1982 case was different in that Moi did not actually organise the coup. The coup plotters provided him with an opportunity to purge those he did not like .His was sin of omission,failure to act to stop the coup. Who knows,maybe without the coup ,the purge might have been delayed and and might have been overtaken by the wind of change following the fall of the iron curtain. Truth forever on the scaffold Wrong forever on the throne (James Russell Rowell)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/29/2008 Posts: 1,566
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Alba wrote:Kibaki blew it. He won the 2002 election after having received wholehearted support from all Kenyan provinces. Kenyans were very united in 2002. Kibaki had a lot of goodwill. People in western, Nyanza and Coast turned out in droves to vote for Kibaki.
Instead of building on that unity and trust, Kibaki retreated back to his tribal coccoon this creating hostility.
The term coined by Nation newspapers "Mount Kenya mafia" was true. It was a recognition of the fact that Kibaki took all that goodwill and wasted it.
Similarly in 1963, Kenyans were united across all provinces. Kenyatta was riding a crest of popularity. Instead of building on that unity and goodwill, he retreated to his own tribal cocoon hence the term "kiambu mafia".
He managed to convince the people that the prosperity of a few people within the tribe is a source of pride for the whole tribe.
Funny how history repeats itself Each-time there is an opportunity to unite the nation and diffuse tribal tension, our leaders blow it. Then they convince us that their land grabbing and theft is goood for all members of the tribe.
And if a leader from another tribe intervenes, he is your enemy and should sidelined (Oginga) or he is a enemy who should be killed (Pinto, Mboya and maybe Ngala)
And if a leader from your own tribe intervenes, he is a traitor who should be killed (JM Kariuki) or he is a traitor who should be sidelined, rigged out of office and cast aside (Bildad Kaggia). Or if he is too stubborn, he should just be detained in jail without trial (Koigi Wamwere and others)
Somehow the leadership convinced the people that actions like murder, detention, and expulsion from the party were justified because they were in the best interests of the tribe.
Today in 2016 we still haven't learned. Even Boniface Mwangi is seen as an enemy by many on wazua. In reality Boniface Mwangi types who criticize both sides of the political equation are the kind of people who can unite Kenyans by making us more of an issue oriented people. Being tribe oriented only benefits a few elites.
To a very large extend I concur with these views. Kibaki had a golden opportunity to cement the new found cohesion in the Country. He blew it instead. Granted in the first days of his presidency he was unwell, but he recovered and we didnt see him steer the country in another direction insofar as cohesion is concerned. However I credit him with positive economic development. As for Jomo Kenyatta my view is that he encouraged cronyism and tribal chauvinism. Having said that may I also add that I take a divergent view (disagree) over the views (most) expressed in your Five posts above before this one. Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/27/2012 Posts: 2,256 Location: Bandalungwa
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Ngalaka wrote: To a very large extend I concur these views. Kibaki had a golden opportunity to cement the new found cohesion in the Country. He blew it. Granted in the first days of his presidency he was unwell, but he recovered and we didnt see him steer the country in another direction insofar as cohesion is concerned. However I credit him with positive economic development. As for Jomo Kenyatta my view is that he encouraged cronyism and tribal chauvinism.
Having said that may I also add that I take a divergent view (disagree) over the views (most) expressed in your Five post above before this one.
I agree that Kibaki did a lot of good. Far be it for me to say he did nothing. On the economy he was much better than Moi. He had to be. Moi had dragged Kenya's economy to a negative GDP growth rate in 2001. The two issues which are the biggest problems in Kenya today in my opinion are : 1. Tribal tension 2. Corruption Unfortunately these became worse under Kibaki and they are getting worse under UK. These two issues are the root cause of all our problems. A world bank report stated that corruption costs Kenya 250,000 jobs annually. Because the jobless rate is so high, many youth have resorted to crime. If you feel unsafe in Kenya you can blame corruption. It is the root cause of the high crime rate according to the world bank. The other reason so many of our young men are resorting to crime is because they can see their leaders stealing. Why should only Waiguru-type white collar criminals get rich? they ask. Why cant I also steal they ask? There was a recent poll done which stated that Kenyan youth think stealing and corruption is Okay. Thats why it is so imperative that Kenyans take off their tribal hats and start holding leaders accountable for solving problems. Its high time we stopped allowing our leaders to convince us to vote on tribal basis. The siege mentality has been created by our leaders and their lies. They keep lying to us that our very lives are in danger if we do not vote on tribal basis. We keep falling for it. It is only the elites who benefit from this tribal arrangement. The rest of you go home worried sick about being mugged or a power blackout or traffic or any other of the myriad problems in Kenya that could be solved if Kenya was a society that was issue oriented and not tribe oriented. Our leaders have lied to us for fifty years. At some point we have to wake up to their lies. Your own safety and job prospects depends on it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/30/2008 Posts: 6,029
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http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/mobile/art
icle/2000193244/jilted-man-kills-64-year-old-girlfriend-in-nanyuki-town Woman killed her husband to enjoy wealth with a young man. The young man later kills the woman. Malipo ni hapa hapa duniani.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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@wazua these dimwitted tribalists are really reducing the quality of the forum for me. I know for sure the YAF software that wazua runs on offers an "Ignore User" feature that I could use to block out ignorant noise from my feed. Please implement it for the sake of decorum here, rather than people fighting endlessly.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,330 Location: Masada
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hardwood wrote:@wazua these dimwitted tribalists are really reducing the quality of the forum for me. I know for sure the YAF software that wazua runs on offers an "Ignore User" feature that I could use to block out ignorant noise from my feed. Please implement it for the sake of decorum here, rather than people fighting endlessly. I wish you well, you think, just like Duale, that you are very special in the coalition! Portfolio: Sold You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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