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Rank: Member Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 3,142
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AlphDoti wrote:They say small knowledge is very dangerous. And money and education makes one very arrogant and proud. Perhaps not as dangerous as true Islam. Considering all the riches the Arabs have from the oil in their lands to the extent of building Palm Islands, tallest buildings etc no wonder they think everybody ought to unquestioningly bow down and submit to their religion. AlphDoti wrote:That's why we have people like you who seek small non-issues while ignoring the big faults in their own beliefs. My beliefs ,,,, well ,,,, if you only know how my beliefs agree with yours on many points such as: (a) diet, (b) modesty, (c) corruptions in mordern bible translations, (d) corruptions in the typical contemporary life etc. Yet where and when our beliefs diverge, e.g. the boy and the sacrifice, you call it a non-issue. It is not a 'non-issue' to me - that's why we disagree. If it were a 'non-issue' you and I would not have disagreed, comprende? You simply cannot answer it without conceding one of either: (a) Mohammed or (b) Allah told a lie. And if you agree that one of them told a lie then that is a whole new can of worms. You would rather bury your head in the sand like the proverbial ostrich than face the truth. Suit yourself! If I was in your position, I too would insist to the death its a 'non-issue'. Because that is the only logical way - in your thinking - to escape the pressure. Why do you not ask some of those 'famous contemporary personalities' you cited earlier for assistance. Perhaps they know?
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2010 Posts: 458
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Great Information from this thread...I always admire the way Muslims follow their strict prayer schedule because if truly the prayers are daily at at the said times you would consider hurting or doing something wrong when you are just from praying maybe that is why corruption, HIV etc is very low in Muslim countries unlike christian countries. Why are there so much conflicts between christian's and Muslims? I personally think both groups pray to the same God only that the procedures are different ..one is more adherent I say this because even from a bible and Quran their are significant similarities. As christian's or Muslim's we should stop looking at each other's religion with suspicion and claim that our is the true/correct religion, I honestly think it is the same thing to some extend. Ps..Why do Muslim's dress like the biblical people? update president set president = speaker where president is null
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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 All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:They say small knowledge is very dangerous. And money and education makes one very arrogant and proud. Perhaps not as dangerous as true Islam. Considering all the riches the Arabs have from the oil in their lands to the extent of building Palm Islands, tallest buildings etc no wonder they think everybody ought to unquestioningly bow down and submit to their religion. AlphDoti wrote:That's why we have people like you who seek small non-issues while ignoring the big faults in their own beliefs. My beliefs ,,,, well ,,,, if you only know how my beliefs agree with yours on many points such as: (a) diet, (b) modesty, (c) corruptions in mordern bible translations, (d) corruptions in the typical contemporary life etc. Yet where and when our beliefs diverge, e.g. the boy and the sacrifice, you call it a non-issue. It is not a 'non-issue' to me - that's why we disagree. If it were a 'non-issue' you and I would not have disagreed, comprende? You simply cannot answer it without conceding one of either: (a) Mohammed or (b) Allah told a lie. And if you agree that one of them told a lie then that is a whole new can of worms. You would rather bury your head in the sand like the proverbial ostrich than face the truth. Suit yourself! If I was in your position, I too would insist to the death its a 'non-issue'. Because that is the only logical way - in your thinking - to escape the pressure. Why do you not ask some of those 'famous contemporary personalities' you cited earlier for assistance. Perhaps they know? Again going round in cycles. It is a vicious circle. 1. Your belief says: Jesus was sacrificed by God to ransom us from sin. Islam says: God does not kill anyone, and he does not need your blood to forgive anyone. No evidence in Bible and no evidence in Quran. It was your Church scholars who came up with this idea of Atonement. 2. Bible says God tested Abraham by asking him to sacrifice his son. Quran says God tested Abraham and Abraham passed the test of faith. Bible does not say it to forgive anyone. Quran does not say it was to forgive anyone. It is your Church scholars who came up with this idea. 3. Post #104 I already told "who". Those words were said by God Almighty. 4. Post #109 Ransom means substitute 5. Post #106 All the answers since you asked this question are there. Print them and read. 6. Post #114 I have told you many times that this idea of atonement, just drop it, it is not Islamic teaching. It is the most none-sensible idea in the world! 7. Post #115 There is no atonement. No one dies for your sins. You carry your own sins. And you get your own rewards from good work. 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:Alphdoti,
I am glad to note you are discussing Abraham.
You do know I have unfinished business with you about Abraham, the boy and the sacrifice.
I will not let that matter rest no matter what you do.
I'm glad you are running after a non-issue when the elephant contradictions above are staring in your eyes   Non-issue? The Qur'an is a non-issue? Well, well, well! Like brother has pre-empted one of the 'elephant contradictions' we must discuss is where in the Qur'an is Ishmael fingered to be boy we are talking about? You are quick to talk about the bible. I bring the Qur'an to this fight. The Qur'an and nothing but the Qur'an! Yes, non-issue. You'll never find any contradiction in the Quran. You'll never find any fault with Muhammad (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam). You'll only find envy and false accusations towards him. Even Some of the famous contemporary personalities who read the biography of the Messenger say Muhammad was a great man. And you'll never find any Muslim accuse any prophet of God all the way from Adam to Noah to Moses to David to Jesus to Muhammad (peace upon them all). We love and respect them all. BUT WE DON'T WORSHIP ANY PF THEM. It is only those who are ignorant who hate on Islam and the Messenger. They say small knowledge is very dangerous. And money and education makes one very arrogant and proud. That's why we have people like you who seek small non-issues while ignoring the big faults in their own beliefs. Start here and this ISIS Lists Out 5 Islamic Reasons to Justify Beheading Alan Henning and other Captivesand this The Quran's Verses of Violence   You may cry out and say I'm quoting this out of context. Well, let us see what is being said here... 1. God is supposedly entraged by evil Babylonians who have enslaved his PREFERRED PEOPLE the ISRAELITES 2. God decree that those who smash up the children of the Babylonians would be doing God's will.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:Alphdoti,
I am glad to note you are discussing Abraham.
You do know I have unfinished business with you about Abraham, the boy and the sacrifice.
I will not let that matter rest no matter what you do.
I'm glad you are running after a non-issue when the elephant contradictions above are staring in your eyes Non-issue? The Qur'an is a non-issue? Well, well, well! Like brother has pre-empted one of the 'elephant contradictions' we must discuss is where in the Qur'an is Ishmael fingered to be boy we are talking about? You are quick to talk about the bible. I bring the Qur'an to this fight. The Qur'an and nothing but the Qur'an! Yes, non-issue. You'll never find any contradiction in the Quran. You'll never find any fault with Muhammad (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam). You'll only find envy and false accusations towards him. Even Some of the famous contemporary personalities who read the biography of the Messenger say Muhammad was a great man. And you'll never find any Muslim accuse any prophet of God all the way from Adam to Noah to Moses to David to Jesus to Muhammad (peace upon them all). We love and respect them all. BUT WE DON'T WORSHIP ANY PF THEM. It is only those who are ignorant who hate on Islam and the Messenger. They say small knowledge is very dangerous. And money and education makes one very arrogant and proud. That's why we have people like you who seek small non-issues while ignoring the big faults in their own beliefs. Start here and this ISIS Lists Out 5 Islamic Reasons to Justify Beheading Alan Henning and other Captivesand this The Quran's Verses of Violence You may cry out and say I'm quoting this out of context. Well, let us see what is being said here... 1. God is supposedly entraged by evil Babylonians who have enslaved his PREFERRED PEOPLE the ISRAELITES 2. God decree that those who smash up the children of the Babylonians would be doing God's will. Since you've started the diversions,I take it you agree with the video and accept Islam is false. Genesis 137:8-9 wrote:
7 Remember, Lord, what the Edomites did on the day Jerusalem fell.“Tear it down,” they cried,“tear it down to its foundations!”
8 Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction,happy is the one who repays you according to what you have done to us.
9 Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.
Sound familiar? ISIS Lists Out 5 Islamic Reasons to Justify Beheading Alan Henning and other CaptivesThe Quran's Verses of Violence
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:Alphdoti,
I am glad to note you are discussing Abraham.
You do know I have unfinished business with you about Abraham, the boy and the sacrifice.
I will not let that matter rest no matter what you do.
I'm glad you are running after a non-issue when the elephant contradictions above are staring in your eyes Non-issue? The Qur'an is a non-issue? Well, well, well! Like brother has pre-empted one of the 'elephant contradictions' we must discuss is where in the Qur'an is Ishmael fingered to be boy we are talking about? You are quick to talk about the bible. I bring the Qur'an to this fight. The Qur'an and nothing but the Qur'an! Yes, non-issue. You'll never find any contradiction in the Quran. You'll never find any fault with Muhammad (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam). You'll only find envy and false accusations towards him. Even Some of the famous contemporary personalities who read the biography of the Messenger say Muhammad was a great man. And you'll never find any Muslim accuse any prophet of God all the way from Adam to Noah to Moses to David to Jesus to Muhammad (peace upon them all). We love and respect them all. BUT WE DON'T WORSHIP ANY PF THEM. It is only those who are ignorant who hate on Islam and the Messenger. They say small knowledge is very dangerous. And money and education makes one very arrogant and proud. That's why we have people like you who seek small non-issues while ignoring the big faults in their own beliefs. Start here and this ISIS Lists Out 5 Islamic Reasons to Justify Beheading Alan Henning and other Captivesand this The Quran's Verses of Violence You may cry out and say I'm quoting this out of context. Well, let us see what is being said here... 1. God is supposedly entraged by evil Babylonians who have enslaved his PREFERRED PEOPLE the ISRAELITES 2. God decree that those who smash up the children of the Babylonians would be doing God's will. Since you've started the diversions,I take it you agree with the video and accept Islam is false. Genesis 137:8-9 wrote:
7 Remember, Lord, what the Edomites did on the day Jerusalem fell.“Tear it down,” they cried,“tear it down to its foundations!”
8 Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction,happy is the one who repays you according to what you have done to us.
9 Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.
Sound familiar? ISIS Lists Out 5 Islamic Reasons to Justify Beheading Alan Henning and other CaptivesThe Quran's Verses of Violence Are you satisfied with Abraham issue?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:They say small knowledge is very dangerous. And money and education makes one very arrogant and proud. Perhaps not as dangerous as true Islam. Considering all the riches the Arabs have from the oil in their lands to the extent of building Palm Islands, tallest buildings etc no wonder they think everybody ought to unquestioningly bow down and submit to their religion. AlphDoti wrote:That's why we have people like you who seek small non-issues while ignoring the big faults in their own beliefs. My beliefs ,,,, well ,,,, if you only know how my beliefs agree with yours on many points such as: (a) diet, (b) modesty, (c) corruptions in mordern bible translations, (d) corruptions in the typical contemporary life etc. Yet where and when our beliefs diverge, e.g. the boy and the sacrifice, you call it a non-issue. It is not a 'non-issue' to me - that's why we disagree. If it were a 'non-issue' you and I would not have disagreed, comprende? You simply cannot answer it without conceding one of either: (a) Mohammed or (b) Allah told a lie. And if you agree that one of them told a lie then that is a whole new can of worms. You would rather bury your head in the sand like the proverbial ostrich than face the truth. Suit yourself! If I was in your position, I too would insist to the death its a 'non-issue'. Because that is the only logical way - in your thinking - to escape the pressure. Why do you not ask some of those 'famous contemporary personalities' you cited earlier for assistance. Perhaps they know? Again going round in cycles. It is a vicious circle. 1. Your belief says: Jesus was sacrificed by God to ransom us from sin. Islam says: God does not kill anyone, and he does not need your blood to forgive anyone. No evidence in Bible and no evidence in Quran. It was your Church scholars who came up with this idea of Atonement. 2. Bible says God tested Abraham by asking him to sacrifice his son. Quran says God tested Abraham and Abraham passed the test of faith. Bible does not say it to forgive anyone. Quran does not say it was to forgive anyone. It is your Church scholars who came up with this idea. Who's going round and round in circles with the same claims? 1 Peter 2:24 wrote:
and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.
Why because God loves the world. The Quran Quran 4:157 wrote:And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. Quran 3:32 wrote:Say: Obey Allah and the Apostle; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers. Allah enabled the unbelievers?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:Alphdoti,
I am glad to note you are discussing Abraham.
You do know I have unfinished business with you about Abraham, the boy and the sacrifice.
I will not let that matter rest no matter what you do.
I'm glad you are running after a non-issue when the elephant contradictions above are staring in your eyes Non-issue? The Qur'an is a non-issue? Well, well, well! Like brother has pre-empted one of the 'elephant contradictions' we must discuss is where in the Qur'an is Ishmael fingered to be boy we are talking about? You are quick to talk about the bible. I bring the Qur'an to this fight. The Qur'an and nothing but the Qur'an! Yes, non-issue. You'll never find any contradiction in the Quran. You'll never find any fault with Muhammad (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam). You'll only find envy and false accusations towards him. Even Some of the famous contemporary personalities who read the biography of the Messenger say Muhammad was a great man. And you'll never find any Muslim accuse any prophet of God all the way from Adam to Noah to Moses to David to Jesus to Muhammad (peace upon them all). We love and respect them all. BUT WE DON'T WORSHIP ANY PF THEM. It is only those who are ignorant who hate on Islam and the Messenger. They say small knowledge is very dangerous. And money and education makes one very arrogant and proud. That's why we have people like you who seek small non-issues while ignoring the big faults in their own beliefs. Start here and this ISIS Lists Out 5 Islamic Reasons to Justify Beheading Alan Henning and other Captivesand this The Quran's Verses of Violence You may cry out and say I'm quoting this out of context. Well, let us see what is being said here... 1. God is supposedly entraged by evil Babylonians who have enslaved his PREFERRED PEOPLE the ISRAELITES 2. God decree that those who smash up the children of the Babylonians would be doing God's will. Since you've started the diversions,I take it you agree with the video and accept Islam is false. Genesis 137:8-9 wrote:
7 Remember, Lord, what the Edomites did on the day Jerusalem fell.“Tear it down,” they cried,“tear it down to its foundations!”
8 Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction,happy is the one who repays you according to what you have done to us.
9 Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.
Sound familiar? ISIS Lists Out 5 Islamic Reasons to Justify Beheading Alan Henning and other CaptivesThe Quran's Verses of Violence Are you satisfied with Abraham issue? More distractions I am satisfied.It's you who avoided the issues and started the distractions the same way you are right now.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:@Jus Blazin has highlighted your goggles.
She was visited in chapter 18.
Birth of Isaac in chapter 21 then Ishmael and Hagar were sent away by Abraham.
Chapter 22 is where God tested Abraham and the only son he had with him was Isaac.Isaac's age is not specified. Those with googles are the ones accusing others Ishmael was there before IsaacGenesis 17:24 - Abraham was circumcised at age of 90 together with his son Ishmael. Genesis 17:25 - Ishmael was 13 years old when both were circumcised Birth of Isaac came laterGenesis 18:9 - And he said, ...and lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. Genesis 21:1 - And the Lord visited Sarah as he had said, and the Lord did unto Sarah as he had spoken. Genesis 21:2 - Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son Genesis 21:3 - Abraham called the name of his son, Isaac. Let me ask you questions:1. if you send away your wife to another plot you own, Barsheba, does she stop being your wife? 2. Explain why in Chapter 22 when God tested Abraham, the Bible says "the only son Isaac", yet there was another son Ishmael. We know the Bible says Ishmael and Isaac buried Abraham, when did Ishmael stopped being Abraham's son? Genesis 17:24 wrote:And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin. 1. Ishmael and Hagar sent away.Which other plot and which wife?Genesis 16:2-3 wrote:And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the Lord hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.
3 And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife. Genesis 16:5 wrote:And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands Genesis 21:10 wrote: Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac. Genesis 21:12 wrote:And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called. Genesis 21:14 wrote: And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba. Genesis 21:21 wrote: And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt. 2. Isaac the promised son of the covenant after Ishmael was sent away.
Genesis 22:1 wrote: Some time later God tested Abraham... AlphDoti wrote:So we are going to analyze Abraham issue. Starting from a bit back genesis 12. So big question is which book is telling the truth? If you're looking for truth, you need to look closely.
Ecclesiastes 7:27 - Behold, this have I found, saith the preacher, counting one by one, to find out the account:
Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions. Ignoring the obvious to seek out your inventions? You're not able to answer to your inventions. I'm not the one who put those things in the Bible my friend I must be very old and wise if the Bible is my invention  So when did it become my invention? Ecclesiastes 7:27 call you "but they have sought out many inventions". " They" in his words refers to " those who follow inventions". That's you and those who don't want to see the truth. @symbol, I'm waiting for you here.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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AlphDoti wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:@Jus Blazin has highlighted your goggles.
She was visited in chapter 18.
Birth of Isaac in chapter 21 then Ishmael and Hagar were sent away by Abraham.
Chapter 22 is where God tested Abraham and the only son he had with him was Isaac.Isaac's age is not specified. Those with googles are the ones accusing others Ishmael was there before IsaacGenesis 17:24 - Abraham was circumcised at age of 90 together with his son Ishmael. Genesis 17:25 - Ishmael was 13 years old when both were circumcised Birth of Isaac came laterGenesis 18:9 - And he said, ...and lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. Genesis 21:1 - And the Lord visited Sarah as he had said, and the Lord did unto Sarah as he had spoken. Genesis 21:2 - Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son Genesis 21:3 - Abraham called the name of his son, Isaac. Let me ask you questions:1. if you send away your wife to another plot you own, Barsheba, does she stop being your wife? 2. Explain why in Chapter 22 when God tested Abraham, the Bible says "the only son Isaac", yet there was another son Ishmael. We know the Bible says Ishmael and Isaac buried Abraham, when did Ishmael stopped being Abraham's son? Genesis 17:24 wrote:And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin. 1. Ishmael and Hagar sent away.Which other plot and which wife?Genesis 16:2-3 wrote:And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the Lord hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.
3 And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife. Genesis 16:5 wrote:And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands Genesis 21:10 wrote: Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac. Genesis 21:12 wrote:And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called. Genesis 21:14 wrote: And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba. Genesis 21:21 wrote: And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt. 2. Isaac the promised son of the covenant after Ishmael was sent away.
Genesis 22:1 wrote: Some time later God tested Abraham... AlphDoti wrote:So we are going to analyze Abraham issue. Starting from a bit back genesis 12. So big question is which book is telling the truth? If you're looking for truth, you need to look closely.
Ecclesiastes 7:27 - Behold, this have I found, saith the preacher, counting one by one, to find out the account:
Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions. Ignoring the obvious to seek out your inventions? You're not able to answer to your inventions. I'm not the one who put those things in the Bible my friend I must be very old and wise if the Bible is my invention So when did it become my invention? Ecclesiastes 7:27 call you "but they have sought out many inventions". " They" in his words refers to " those who follow inventions". That's you and those who don't want to see the truth. @symbol, I'm waiting for you here. Hagar was not Abraham's wife.Sarah explained what she meant. Hagar and Ishmael were cast away and lived in Paran not in Abraham's plot. Isaac,the promised son and the child of sacrifice,was the only son Abraham had when God approached him for the test.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Let me summarize, any Christian worth his salt to confirm these questions:
1. Abraham didn't have any children until old age: true or false? (Genesis 15:1-4)
2. Sarah gave her maid Hagar to Abraham: true or false? (Genesis 16:2)
3. Hagar became Abraham's wife: true or false? (GENESIS 16:3)
4. Abraham laid with his wife Hagar and she conceived Ismael: true or false? (Genesis 16:4)
5. Sarah became jealous of Hagar pregnancy: true or false? (Genesis 16:6)
6. Sarah mistreated the other woman Hagar: true or false? (Genesis 16:7)
7. Because of jealousy between the two women Hagar ran away: true or false? (Genesis 16:7)
8. An angel met Hagar in the desert and returned her back: true or false? (Genesis 16:8)
9. The angel told Hagar she'll be blessed with many children and made big nation: true or false? (Genesis 16:9)
10. Ishmael was Abraham's son, born of his wife as per (3) above in GENESIS 16:3: true or false? (Genesis 16:17)
11. Ishmael was there before Isaac: true or false? (Genesis 17:24-25 Abraham circumcised at age of 90 with his son Ishmael who was 13 years old)
12. Isaac was born later: true or false? (Genesis 18:9, Genesis 21:1-3)
13. Abraham took other wife Hagar to Barsheba. Who owned Barsheba? We see Abraham took back his land Barsheba, which had been taken away violently by somebody called Abimelech (Genesis 21:25)
14. If you have two wives, and a problem comes up, and you take one wife to another land you own, she is still your wife: true or false?
15. When God tested Abraham in Chapter 22, the Bible says "the only son Isaac", yet there was another son Ishmael: why is that?
16. We know the Bible says Ishmael and Isaac buried Abraham, when did Ishmael stopped being Abraham's son?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Muriel wrote:Alphdoti,
I am glad to note you are discussing Abraham.
You do know I have unfinished business with you about Abraham, the boy and the sacrifice.
I will not let that matter rest no matter what you do.
I'm glad you are running after a non-issue when the elephant contradictions above are staring in your eyes Non-issue? The Qur'an is a non-issue? Well, well, well! Like brother has pre-empted one of the 'elephant contradictions' we must discuss is where in the Qur'an is Ishmael fingered to be boy we are talking about? You are quick to talk about the bible. I bring the Qur'an to this fight. The Qur'an and nothing but the Qur'an! Yes, non-issue. You'll never find any contradiction in the Quran. You'll never find any fault with Muhammad (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam). You'll only find envy and false accusations towards him. Even Some of the famous contemporary personalities who read the biography of the Messenger say Muhammad was a great man. And you'll never find any Muslim accuse any prophet of God all the way from Adam to Noah to Moses to David to Jesus to Muhammad (peace upon them all). We love and respect them all. BUT WE DON'T WORSHIP ANY PF THEM. It is only those who are ignorant who hate on Islam and the Messenger. They say small knowledge is very dangerous. And money and education makes one very arrogant and proud. That's why we have people like you who seek small non-issues while ignoring the big faults in their own beliefs. Start here and this ISIS Lists Out 5 Islamic Reasons to Justify Beheading Alan Henning and other Captivesand this The Quran's Verses of Violence You may cry out and say I'm quoting this out of context. Well, let us see what is being said here... 1. God is supposedly entraged by evil Babylonians who have enslaved his PREFERRED PEOPLE the ISRAELITES 2. God decree that those who smash up the children of the Babylonians would be doing God's will. Since you've started the diversions,I take it you agree with the video and accept Islam is false. Genesis 137:8-9 wrote:
7 Remember, Lord, what the Edomites did on the day Jerusalem fell.“Tear it down,” they cried,“tear it down to its foundations!”
8 Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction,happy is the one who repays you according to what you have done to us.
9 Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.
Sound familiar? ISIS Lists Out 5 Islamic Reasons to Justify Beheading Alan Henning and other CaptivesThe Quran's Verses of Violence Are you satisfied with Abraham issue? More distractions I am satisfied.It's you who avoided the issues and started the distractions the same way you are right now. I am waiting for you here.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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symbols wrote:
Hagar was not Abraham's wife.Sarah explained what she meant.
Hagar and Ishmael were cast away and lived in Paran not in Abraham's plot.
Isaac,the promised son and the child of sacrifice,was the only son Abraham had when God approached him for the test.
@symbol, why do you lie? Your Bible says the opposite: 1. Genesis 16:3 "and Sarah Abraham's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abraham to be his wife" 2. If you have two wives, and a problem comes up, and you take one wife to another land you own, does that make her stop being your wife? 3. When God tested Abraham in Chapter 22, the Bible says "the only son Isaac", yet there was another son Ishmael, why is that? 4. When God stopped him from sacrificing his son, Abraham and return to Beersheba! Remember who had been taken to Beersheba? Sarah or Hagar? Genesis 22:19 "So Abraham returned unto his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beersheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beersheba". Was Hagar in Barsheba or Sarah?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:
Hagar was not Abraham's wife.Sarah explained what she meant.
Hagar and Ishmael were cast away and lived in Paran not in Abraham's plot.
Isaac,the promised son and the child of sacrifice,was the only son Abraham had when God approached him for the test.
@symbol, why do you lie? Your Bible says the opposite: 1. Genesis 16:3 "and Sarah Abraham's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abraham to be his wife" 2. If you have two wives, and a problem comes up, and you take one wife to another land you own, does that make her stop being your wife? 3. When God tested Abraham in Chapter 22, the Bible says "the only son Isaac", yet there was another son Ishmael, why is that? 4. When God stopped him from sacrificing his son, Abraham and return to Beersheba! Remember who had been taken to Beersheba? Sarah or Hagar? Genesis 22:19 "So Abraham returned unto his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beersheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beersheba". Was Hagar in Barsheba or Sarah? 1.I've shown what Sarah meant. 2.Hagar wasn't called Abraham's wife and it's Hagar who despised her mistress after she got pregnant.Abraham confirmed Hagar was Sarah's servant. 3.Isaac,the promised son and the child of sacrifice,was the only son Abraham had when God approached him for the test. 4.Hagar and Ishmael wandered the wilderness of Beersheba but dwelt in the wilderness of Paran. Where is the lie in that?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:
Hagar was not Abraham's wife.Sarah explained what she meant.
Hagar and Ishmael were cast away and lived in Paran not in Abraham's plot.
Isaac,the promised son and the child of sacrifice,was the only son Abraham had when God approached him for the test.
@symbol, why do you lie? Your Bible says the opposite: 1. Genesis 16:3 "and Sarah Abraham's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abraham to be his wife" 2. If you have two wives, and a problem comes up, and you take one wife to another land you own, does that make her stop being your wife? 3. When God tested Abraham in Chapter 22, the Bible says "the only son Isaac", yet there was another son Ishmael, why is that? 4. When God stopped him from sacrificing his son, Abraham and return to Beersheba! Remember who had been taken to Beersheba? Sarah or Hagar? Genesis 22:19 "So Abraham returned unto his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beersheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beersheba". Was Hagar in Barsheba or Sarah? 1.I've shown what Sarah meant. 2.Hagar wasn't called Abraham's wife and it's Hagar who despised her mistress after she got pregnant.Abraham confirmed Hagar was Sarah's servant. 3.Isaac,the promised son and the child of sacrifice,was the only son Abraham had when God approached him for the test. 4.Hagar and Ishmael wandered the wilderness of Beersheba but dwelt in the wilderness of Paran. Where is the lie in that? @symbols, your Bible says! Genesis 16:3 "And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife" Since you're not satisfied, let us consult your experts, Christian scholars, Bible scholars. Quote:John Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible
Genesis 16
Verse 3
And Sarai, Abram's wife, took Hagar her maid, the Egyptian,.... Took her by the hand, it is probable, and led her into the apartment where Abram was, and presented her to him; their characters are very exactly described, and the contrast beautifully given, that the affair might be the more remarkable and observable:
after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan; so that he was now eighty five years of age, for he was sventy five when he departed from Haran and came into Canaan, Genesis 12:4; and Sarai, being ten years younger than he, must be sventy five; the Jews from hence have formed a rule or canon; that if a man marries a woman, and she has no children in ten years, he is obliged to marry another:
and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife; his secondary wife, or concubine; which, though contrary to the first institution of marriage, was connived at of God, and was practised by good men: nothing can excuse them but their earnest desire after the Messiah, the promised seed; and one may conclude, that nothing but this especially could move Sarai to take such a step, so contrary to the temper and disposition of women in common. Link www.studylight.org
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/22/2011 Posts: 1,325
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Stumbled upon this, quite interesting. The presenter gives unbiased views, Guru you should take notes on how to be rational. But too bad, you will only focus on the fact that he is an ex Muslim and will call him an apostate. Such a waste of creation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EN52CP2_F0U
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:
Hagar was not Abraham's wife.Sarah explained what she meant.
Hagar and Ishmael were cast away and lived in Paran not in Abraham's plot.
Isaac,the promised son and the child of sacrifice,was the only son Abraham had when God approached him for the test.
@symbol, why do you lie? Your Bible says the opposite: 1. Genesis 16:3 "and Sarah Abraham's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abraham to be his wife" 2. If you have two wives, and a problem comes up, and you take one wife to another land you own, does that make her stop being your wife? 3. When God tested Abraham in Chapter 22, the Bible says "the only son Isaac", yet there was another son Ishmael, why is that? 4. When God stopped him from sacrificing his son, Abraham and return to Beersheba! Remember who had been taken to Beersheba? Sarah or Hagar? Genesis 22:19 "So Abraham returned unto his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beersheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beersheba". Was Hagar in Barsheba or Sarah? 1.I've shown what Sarah meant. 2.Hagar wasn't called Abraham's wife and it's Hagar who despised her mistress after she got pregnant.Abraham confirmed Hagar was Sarah's servant. 3.Isaac,the promised son and the child of sacrifice,was the only son Abraham had when God approached him for the test. 4.Hagar and Ishmael wandered the wilderness of Beersheba but dwelt in the wilderness of Paran. Where is the lie in that? @symbols, your Bible says! Genesis 16:3 "And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife" Since you're not satisfied, let us consult your experts, Christian scholars, Bible scholars. Quote:John Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible
Genesis 16
Verse 3
And Sarai, Abram's wife, took Hagar her maid, the Egyptian,.... Took her by the hand, it is probable, and led her into the apartment where Abram was, and presented her to him; their characters are very exactly described, and the contrast beautifully given, that the affair might be the more remarkable and observable:
after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan; so that he was now eighty five years of age, for he was sventy five when he departed from Haran and came into Canaan, Genesis 12:4; and Sarai, being ten years younger than he, must be sventy five; the Jews from hence have formed a rule or canon; that if a man marries a woman, and she has no children in ten years, he is obliged to marry another:
and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife; his secondary wife, or concubine; which, though contrary to the first institution of marriage, was connived at of God, and was practised by good men: nothing can excuse them but their earnest desire after the Messiah, the promised seed; and one may conclude, that nothing but this especially could move Sarai to take such a step, so contrary to the temper and disposition of women in common. Link www.studylight.org The Bible says a lot of things but you ignore the rest of what it says. I don't have experts.Just like I don't Bible revisers. Genesis 16:2-3 wrote:
2 And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the Lord hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.
3 And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.
Sarah explained herself.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:
Hagar was not Abraham's wife.Sarah explained what she meant.
Hagar and Ishmael were cast away and lived in Paran not in Abraham's plot.
Isaac,the promised son and the child of sacrifice,was the only son Abraham had when God approached him for the test.
@symbol, why do you lie? Your Bible says the opposite: 1. Genesis 16:3 "and Sarah Abraham's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abraham to be his wife" 2. If you have two wives, and a problem comes up, and you take one wife to another land you own, does that make her stop being your wife? 3. When God tested Abraham in Chapter 22, the Bible says "the only son Isaac", yet there was another son Ishmael, why is that? 4. When God stopped him from sacrificing his son, Abraham and return to Beersheba! Remember who had been taken to Beersheba? Sarah or Hagar? Genesis 22:19 "So Abraham returned unto his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beersheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beersheba". Was Hagar in Barsheba or Sarah? 1.I've shown what Sarah meant. 2.Hagar wasn't called Abraham's wife and it's Hagar who despised her mistress after she got pregnant.Abraham confirmed Hagar was Sarah's servant. 3.Isaac,the promised son and the child of sacrifice,was the only son Abraham had when God approached him for the test. 4.Hagar and Ishmael wandered the wilderness of Beersheba but dwelt in the wilderness of Paran. Where is the lie in that? @symbols, your Bible says! Genesis 16:3 "And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife" Since you're not satisfied, let us consult your experts, Christian scholars, Bible scholars. Quote:John Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible
Genesis 16
Verse 3
And Sarai, Abram's wife, took Hagar her maid, the Egyptian,.... Took her by the hand, it is probable, and led her into the apartment where Abram was, and presented her to him; their characters are very exactly described, and the contrast beautifully given, that the affair might be the more remarkable and observable:
after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan; so that he was now eighty five years of age, for he was sventy five when he departed from Haran and came into Canaan, Genesis 12:4; and Sarai, being ten years younger than he, must be sventy five; the Jews from hence have formed a rule or canon; that if a man marries a woman, and she has no children in ten years, he is obliged to marry another:
and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife; his secondary wife, or concubine; which, though contrary to the first institution of marriage, was connived at of God, and was practised by good men: nothing can excuse them but their earnest desire after the Messiah, the promised seed; and one may conclude, that nothing but this especially could move Sarai to take such a step, so contrary to the temper and disposition of women in common. Link www.studylight.org The Bible says a lot of things but you ignore the rest of what it says. I don't have experts.Just like I don't Bible revisers. Genesis 16:2-3 wrote:
2 And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the Lord hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.
3 And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.
Sarah explained herself. @symbols you said you don't have experts. So according to you the Adam Clarke Commentary, The New John Gill Exposition, and Coffman Commentaries on Bible are all fake? Well, you don't care what Bible scholars, what about what Bible says? Genesis 16:3 "And Sarai, Abram's wife, gave Hagar to her husband to be his wife"
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
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AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:AlphDoti wrote:symbols wrote:
Hagar was not Abraham's wife.Sarah explained what she meant.
Hagar and Ishmael were cast away and lived in Paran not in Abraham's plot.
Isaac,the promised son and the child of sacrifice,was the only son Abraham had when God approached him for the test.
@symbol, why do you lie? Your Bible says the opposite: 1. Genesis 16:3 "and Sarah Abraham's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abraham to be his wife" 2. If you have two wives, and a problem comes up, and you take one wife to another land you own, does that make her stop being your wife? 3. When God tested Abraham in Chapter 22, the Bible says "the only son Isaac", yet there was another son Ishmael, why is that? 4. When God stopped him from sacrificing his son, Abraham and return to Beersheba! Remember who had been taken to Beersheba? Sarah or Hagar? Genesis 22:19 "So Abraham returned unto his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beersheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beersheba". Was Hagar in Barsheba or Sarah? 1.I've shown what Sarah meant. 2.Hagar wasn't called Abraham's wife and it's Hagar who despised her mistress after she got pregnant.Abraham confirmed Hagar was Sarah's servant. 3.Isaac,the promised son and the child of sacrifice,was the only son Abraham had when God approached him for the test. 4.Hagar and Ishmael wandered the wilderness of Beersheba but dwelt in the wilderness of Paran. Where is the lie in that? @symbols, your Bible says! Genesis 16:3 "And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife" Since you're not satisfied, let us consult your experts, Christian scholars, Bible scholars. Quote:John Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible
Genesis 16
Verse 3
And Sarai, Abram's wife, took Hagar her maid, the Egyptian,.... Took her by the hand, it is probable, and led her into the apartment where Abram was, and presented her to him; their characters are very exactly described, and the contrast beautifully given, that the affair might be the more remarkable and observable:
after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan; so that he was now eighty five years of age, for he was sventy five when he departed from Haran and came into Canaan, Genesis 12:4; and Sarai, being ten years younger than he, must be sventy five; the Jews from hence have formed a rule or canon; that if a man marries a woman, and she has no children in ten years, he is obliged to marry another:
and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife; his secondary wife, or concubine; which, though contrary to the first institution of marriage, was connived at of God, and was practised by good men: nothing can excuse them but their earnest desire after the Messiah, the promised seed; and one may conclude, that nothing but this especially could move Sarai to take such a step, so contrary to the temper and disposition of women in common. Link www.studylight.org The Bible says a lot of things but you ignore the rest of what it says. I don't have experts.Just like I don't Bible revisers. Genesis 16:2-3 wrote:
2 And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the Lord hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.
3 And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.
Sarah explained herself. @symbols are you saying there no Bible Scholars? So The Adam Clarke Commentary, The New John Gill Exposition, and Coffman Commentaries on Bible are all fake? So you don't care what Bible scholars, and you do not care what Bible says: Genesis 16:3 "And Sarai, Abram's wife, gave Hagar to her husband to be his wife" AlphDoti wrote:If you were an honest Christian and admit that you cannot consider a footnote as the Word of God.
To be his wife - what does it mean? Genesis 16:4 wrote:And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes. Where do it say she became his wife? The meaning is given before and afterwards.
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