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'Brave new world' - conversation on postmodern cosmology.
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/23/2009 Posts: 1,626
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We all agree.The universe is everything,all inclusive.Then what lies beyond is nothing. Uncertainty is certain.Let go
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@Digitek, let us construct answers to your questions using the following premises:
1. The universe is a result of human perception. For it is only through perception that existence of anything.
2. God is the ultimate being and Creator of all things
3. Human being is bounded by the limits God > Man, and God = Man.
So, what is the universe? It is the set of perceptions experienced within the limits of human being, meaning also, self consciousness at either limits.
What lies beyond the limits?
When God > Man, the beyond of the limits cannot be perceived.
But when Man = God, then the only thing beyond is Self expansion.
Beyond the limit lies the act of creation.
So all perceived forms are subject to human being.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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ChessMaster wrote:We all agree.The universe is everything,all inclusive.Then what lies beyond is nothing. We can now begin to construct ideal algorithms for Scientific and Religious work. Answers to questions posed can then be deduced from these algorithms.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,635
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@Tycho, Digitex, Chesmaster et al: I have avoided commenting on this 'man-god' debate because, for a time, it seemed you were doing your damnedest to piss off the Christian right (done that, got the T-sh...er, curses). I am surprised no one has risen to the bait yet. Maybe they figured you for hell-bound anyway, so why interfere? So here is my question: if you believe in the man-god configuration, why is it so hard to believe that time and space are illusory creations of the same entity? Does it bother you that the same 'man-god,' you speak of would be responsible for creating the entire Universe, with all the wonders it holds? Why? Or is 'man-god' more man than god? "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@Wakanyugi, the statement (Man = God) > God, cannot be true for obvious reasons.
For there to be truth, there must be falsehood. Or, if there are illusions, then there must be reality.
Otherwise, the words would neither exist, nor have meaning.
So not unless you are saying illusion = reality, which doesn't make sense; you must be saying that the two are in fact, distinct.
But such a distinction is only possible via perception.
And if some perceptions are real, and perception occurs in spacetime, then there must be instances where spacetime is real.
Otherwise, then you couldn't be able to prove illusion, or even reality.
There'd be no word, and no existence of 'singularity' or 'observer'.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Or alternatively, we can argue in the following way;
1. All proof is meant to show existence or inexistence.
2. There are 3 statements under consideration:
a. Illusion is real and existent.
b. Illusion is an illusion and,
c. Reality is an illusion.
Both b and c are not amenable to proof.
Therefore only statement 'a' can be proven and is admissible to science and philosophy, and even religion.
Finally, a proof must be perceived as true or real.
Therefore some perceptions are real.
This implies that illusions cannot be accounted for by perception alone. But is a result of multiple 'eigenstates' being superimposed.
For example, a mirage is accounted for, by refraction and reflection, while a real object, by reflection.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2010 Posts: 1,797 Location: Kenya
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Wakanyugi wrote:@Tycho, Digitex, Chesmaster et al:
I have avoided commenting on this 'man-god' debate because, for a time, it seemed you were doing your damnedest to piss off the Christian right (done that, got the T-sh...er, curses).
I am surprised no one has risen to the bait yet. Maybe they figured you for hell-bound anyway, so why interfere?
So here is my question: if you believe in the man-god configuration, why is it so hard to believe that time and space are illusory creations of the same entity?
Does it bother you that the same 'man-god,' you speak of would be responsible for creating the entire Universe, with all the wonders it holds?
Why?
Or is 'man-god' more man than god? lOL what is your definition of the christian right. @tycho is not headed to hell as you speculate though he might have his 'damascus' moment You theory of spacetime cannot be answered for now as it alludes to the theory of everything which if you unravel will get you a nobel I may be wrong..but then I could be right
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2010 Posts: 1,797 Location: Kenya
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tycho wrote:@Digitek, let us construct answers to your questions using the following premises:
1. The universe is a result of human perception. For it is only through perception that existence of anything.
2. God is the ultimate being and Creator of all things
3. Human being is bounded by the limits God > Man, and God = Man.
So, what is the universe? It is the set of perceptions experienced within the limits of human being, meaning also, self consciousness at either limits.
What lies beyond the limits?
When God > Man, the beyond of the limits cannot be perceived.
But when Man = God, then the only thing beyond is Self expansion.
Beyond the limit lies the act of creation.
So all perceived forms are subject to human being. Perception is highly illusory. For example our eyes only see the visible range, our ears only within a certain frequency,same applies to the nose and all other senses. Even the human mind is limited by this perception. A while back we thought the world was flat, So there is much more outthere than the mind can perceive. Hence objective reality check out youtube video on big bang to now in 24 hours and human beings as a species came to existence in the last 20 or so minutes.Before them there was objective reality Man may order his reality( subjective hence illusory) but the objective reality(God) still remains(alpha and omega). He exists in the nothingness beyond the boundaries of the cup and existed before the big bang. (has been , is and will forever be) I may be wrong..but then I could be right
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2010 Posts: 1,797 Location: Kenya
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tycho wrote:@Wakanyugi, the statement (Man = God) > God, cannot be true for obvious reasons.
For there to be truth, there must be falsehood. Or, if there are illusions, then there must be reality.
Otherwise, the words would neither exist, nor have meaning.
So not unless you are saying illusion = reality, which doesn't make sense; you must be saying that the two are in fact, distinct.
But such a distinction is only possible via perception.
And if some perceptions are real, and perception occurs in spacetime, then there must be instances where spacetime is real.
Otherwise, then you couldn't be able to prove illusion, or even reality.
There'd be no word, and no existence of 'singularity' or 'observer'. We must also distinguish what is God here. There are three levels (trinity). God immanent in man -which is what i now believe is what you mean by man=god, God the life force- that organises everything , present in every blade of grass or pebble on the beach and God the absolute (father, from whom every thing proceeds) I may be wrong..but then I could be right
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/23/2009 Posts: 1,626
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tycho wrote:ChessMaster wrote:We all agree.The universe is everything,all inclusive.Then what lies beyond is nothing. We can now begin to construct ideal algorithms for Scientific and Religious work. Answers to questions posed can then be deduced from these algorithms. What questions do you want us to ponder on? Uncertainty is certain.Let go
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'Brave new world' - conversation on postmodern cosmology.
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