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IS HEAVEN A PHYSICAL PLACE OR A STATE OF MIND?
Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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So don't worry, hamburger haitoshi saucer![/quote]
@ TYCHO. YOU HAVEN'T SAID WHETHER THE 'GOD EXPERIENCES' ALL HAPPEN IN OUR BRAINS AND WHETHER WE ARE BORN TO BE RELIGIOUS OR NOT. DOES AN ATHEIST LEARN TO BE ONE OR IS HE BORN?[/quote]
Atheists have a religious background but decided to be atheists after we discovered all the bs that comes with religion....We are not born to be religious, we are indoctrinated into religion....Some of us see the light and drop religion and others stay on the religious path, but we are all born atheists and then taught religion by our parents and society....
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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As I told you earlier, the moment you speak of innate goodness is the moment you get into theism. For everything with a name has a source. Or rather, to name is to differentiate.
Tycho, this is where I quit this discussion..Are you suggesting that for innate goodness to exist you have to be a theist? Are you suggesting that atheists cannot have innate goodness in them because they don't believe in a god? Atheism and goodness are not polar opposites, infact they are not even mutually exclusive, plenty if not all atheists have a desire to make this world a better place...You confuse atheists for devil worshipping dolts or some other dark cult, that is so far from the truth..The difference between atheists and theists is that we atheists do good because it's the right thing to do and don't expect anything in return, whereas theists do good deeds in the hope that they will get a ticket to heaven and avoid the fire in hell....
Theists have strings attached to their goodness, atheists do good with no expectations and that's how you can see the hypocrisy that theists ehxibit...Even on this very thread, I have been threatened with going to hell, in theists minds, anything they do in this world stems from fear or reward, heaven and hell, not about doing good, but avoiding hell and hopefully getting into heaven.....Nothing they do is out of the goodness of their heart...That's why my consience cannot let me be theist because I can't live a two-faced life that expects rewards of heaven for doing good deeds.....I would rather do good and not be rewarded, I have too much integrity to enter into a quid pro quo lifestyle with expectations of rewards in heaven at the end of this life....I don't want any rewards for the good deeds that I do on earth, if those rewards are mansions in heaven, I don't want the mansions, I just want to help alleviate the suffering in this world with no strings attached.....That's my way, you guys can enjoy the mansions in heaven, I don't want any rewards for doing things that don't need a reward.....That's the difference between atheists and theists...Now tell me who is more authentic on how they live life?
Tycho your problem is simple, instead of looking at things from a realistic point of view, you create some sophistry which require contorting definitions beyond their snapping points just to sound interesting. It's all a metaphysical distraction and a hindrance to clear thinking when that is precisely what is required here...
This is where we part ways and simply agree to disagree about our opinions. I know what I know and I am quite content with what I know...As a matter of fact, I will go out on a limb and say that I am 100% sure I am correct on how I approach this life as a proud atheist....Anything else is mostly cacophony to me at this point. I rest my case buddy.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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hamburglar wrote:
So don't worry, hamburger haitoshi saucer!
@ TYCHO. YOU HAVEN'T SAID WHETHER THE 'GOD EXPERIENCES' ALL HAPPEN IN OUR BRAINS AND WHETHER WE ARE BORN TO BE RELIGIOUS OR NOT. DOES AN ATHEIST LEARN TO BE ONE OR IS HE BORN?[/quote] Atheists have a religious background but decided to be atheists after we discovered all the bs that comes with religion....We are not born to be religious, we are indoctrinated into religion....Some of us see the light and drop religion and others stay on the religious path, but we are all born atheists and then taught religion by our parents and society....[/quote] Hamburglar, your own admissions on the above post answers all our questions, and places atheism in proper context. 1. People are born into a religious setting, then they later see the light and convert to atheism. Seeing the light, is theism's central point. So here atheism shares a common point with theism. Notice that the light is 'outside' the atheist, so the atheist looks beyond himself and seeks to live according to the light. This is the hight of theism. This turning to the light is the source of goodness. It is only under these conditions that one can do good and expect nothing in return. 2. Since one is born into a religious society, atheism entails a rebellion against the status quo. But the rebellion is not consumated, for the atheist returns to society surreptitiously with his good works. And this return to society is a mark of religion. Atheism is religion without a personal God, but a God nonetheless.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/27/2011 Posts: 1,777
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tycho wrote:hamburglar wrote:
So don't worry, hamburger haitoshi saucer!
josiah33 wrote:
@ TYCHO. YOU HAVEN'T SAID WHETHER THE 'GOD EXPERIENCES' ALL HAPPEN IN OUR BRAINS AND WHETHER WE ARE BORN TO BE RELIGIOUS OR NOT. DOES AN ATHEIST LEARN TO BE ONE OR IS HE BORN?
hamburglar wrote:
Atheists have a religious background but decided to be atheists after we discovered all the bs that comes with religion....We are not born to be religious, we are indoctrinated into religion....Some of us see the light and drop religion and others stay on the religious path, but we are all born atheists and then taught religion by our parents and society....
Hamburglar, your own admissions on the above post answers all our questions, and places atheism in proper context. 1. People are born into a religious setting, then they later see the light and convert to atheism. Seeing the light, is theism's central point. So here atheism shares a common point with theism. Notice that the light is 'outside' the atheist, so the atheist looks beyond himself and seeks to live according to the light. This is the hight of theism. This turning to the light is the source of goodness. It is only under these conditions that one can do good and expect nothing in return. 2. Since one is born into a religious society, atheism entails a rebellion against the status quo. But the rebellion is not consumated, for the atheist returns to society surreptitiously with his good works. And this return to society is a mark of religion. Atheism is religion without a personal God, but a God nonetheless. Someone said this about the question of atheism being a religion or not- The saying is "If atheism is a religion then not playing baseball is a sport".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@Josiah, are the spectators, the commentators, the coaches and umpires, and sponsors playing baseball? Do they entail the sport?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/27/2011 Posts: 1,777
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tycho wrote:@Josiah, are the spectators, the commentators, the coaches and umpires, and sponsors playing baseball? Do they entail the sport? And does not being a spectator, a coach, an umpire and sponsor in a certain game entails the sport too? If sport is Players and the rest(spectators etc), then of course not being any of those couldn't be sport.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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josiah33 wrote:tycho wrote:@Josiah, are the spectators, the commentators, the coaches and umpires, and sponsors playing baseball? Do they entail the sport? And does not being a spectator, a coach, an umpire and sponsor in a certain game entails the sport too? If sport is Players and the rest(spectators etc), then of course not being any of those couldn't be sport. Really? The null set is a subset of the universal set.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/9/2006 Posts: 1,502
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Humans are born naked and atheist. Religion is imposed by coercion to the young innocent minds . If we are born Theist and believers , then how can anybody explain this; 99.999 % of those born Saudis are Muslims, Tibetan -Buddhist , Indian -Hindu , Jews Judaism . How can theists claim we are born religious? Instead we were indoctrinated to believe blindly in a concept we hardly understand. work to prosper
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/23/2009 Posts: 1,626
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@hamburglar - I think I relate with you because I have been where you are and in truth I feel your frustrations and I continue to feel some of them till today.Right or wrong,who knows.I understand or believe that all religions are based on faith and faith is a personal matter.For that reason I don't care about what religion people profess but how that religion works through them.It took me awhile but I figured if I don't care about other religions why should I care about your views.Honestly I am glad and even grateful you're doing good.This world needs it! I will only tell you this,don't tire to look for answers even though you might be going round and round in circles. Uncertainty is certain.Let go
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/9/2006 Posts: 1,502
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"The more i study religion, the more am convinced that man has worshiped nothing but himself" ......Sir Richard Francis Burton work to prosper
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