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Konza city Reality.
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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alma wrote:murchr wrote:This is still not a city if you can't trust Kenyan architects who've proven they can actually build houses, then how do you trust the IT guys who just say they can? Follow the argument. My argument is that no Kenyan architect has proven to have planned a city...i stand to be corrected. As for your argument, i think you live in mars. Ask yourself why all technology companies are eyeing Kenya as an investment location. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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eboomerang wrote:An extract from an article in the Daily Nation. Quote:"According to the permanent secretary in the Ministry of Information, Dr Bitange Ndemo, local BPOs are heavily challenged, mainly due to lack of developed facilities and space.....
Mr Kukubo admits that Kenyan companies have had challenges on capacity, which has meant that some of the projects that require high level technical capability have gone elsewhere.
“The Kenyan market did not have the talent that is needed to spur such a fast growth. That is why we moved to launch a Centre of Excellence to bridge the gap,” says Mr Kukubo. The achievements of the said centre are yet to be made public.
Last year, the board partnered with IBM to conduct a study aimed at reviewing the status and availability of high-end ICT talent and to propose a framework to address the talent gap in both the short and the long term on a sustainable basis.
With the challenge of capacity, the board shifted its focus to attracting more international companies, hoping that they would transfer skills to local counterparts, in the process of executing their projects.
Late last year, the board awarded a $32 million contract to Dimension Data, an international firm, for Internet Protocol telephony project interconnecting all government ministries.
Some projects have gone to local companies but not in the magnitude of contracts given to international firms....
Research on the status of the BPO sector and its contribution to the GDP in India, South Africa, Ghana and Mauritius convinced several people in Kenya to set up companies.
But the expected growth of these companies took a different turn on the backdrop of stringent competition from international firms, which have accumulated experience and know-how.
For instance, after establishing its regional office in Nairobi, IBM has bagged contracts with local banks to set up and maintain their data centre infrastructure.
For IBM, its focus on the finance sector has led to more than $200 million in contracts from banks and governments in Kenya, Cameroon, Ethiopia and Senegal, among others. Their focus on solutions and ability to handle rising consumer demand has endeared them to high spending IT sectors
" This is what we mean when we say that we are climbing the tree from the top, and it will not work if we continue to do it that way. In the case that it works, it will not be for our own good. I have no idea who is advising Bitange on this one, he is either being misled intentionally by some "consultants" or the team lacks better judgement on the matter. My humble opinion still remains valid You SADLY missed the gist of the whole argument "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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murchr wrote:alma wrote:murchr wrote:This is still not a city if you can't trust Kenyan architects who've proven they can actually build houses, then how do you trust the IT guys who just say they can? Follow the argument. My argument is that no Kenyan architect has proven to have planned a city...i stand to be corrected. As for your argument, i think you live in mars. Ask yourself why all technology companies are eyeing Kenya as an investment location. I live in Nairobi thank you. I will let you deal with the statistics of what you've just said. But with all honesty, if they've sent you to deal with the marketing of this thing, its no wonder they are short on deadlines and goals thus far. See you 2032. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/6/2006 Posts: 276
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/6/2006 Posts: 276
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/27/2011 Posts: 301 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:
You SADLY missed the gist of the whole argument
I have not misunderstood the story by any chance, I'm not new to this project and the industry. The challenges being explained in the article are rather straight forward for anyone who understands the dynamics of the so called ICT industry. I can tell you for a fact that much much more contracts and revenues will continue to go to other large companies at the expense of home grown enterprises. Once a contract is signed, the switching costs are too great to bear in large enterprise solutions, so you can as well accept that the local companies will be locked out of any good business opportunities for quite a while.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/6/2006 Posts: 276
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a4architect.com wrote:With the info Konza Developers are using to advertise, there is no major difference betwen the Tatu city/Migaa/Thika Greens form of marketing-the main aim is to create alot of hype which in turn increases demand and hence price of land goes up. If this hapens for Konza, investors will look for better places e.g Upper Hill, Ngong road e.tc where land price is equally high and infrastructure already in place.
The best way Govt. should do is try the Kitengela EPZ route-create an 'EPZ' kind of atmosphere with leased land,zero taxes and add ICT attractive features e.g ICT University,cable internet, ICT Gadget Manufacturers just like they do in EPZ.
What i can see with the current marketing is a good and effective method to sell real estate whereby the only winner is the land owner.
i thought all these were in place... what is going on???
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/6/2006 Posts: 276
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/25/2010 Posts: 939 Location: Nai
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alma wrote:murchr wrote:alma wrote:murchr wrote:This is still not a city if you can't trust Kenyan architects who've proven they can actually build houses, then how do you trust the IT guys who just say they can? Follow the argument. My argument is that no Kenyan architect has proven to have planned a city...i stand to be corrected. As for your argument, i think you live in mars. Ask yourself why all technology companies are eyeing Kenya as an investment location. I live in Nairobi thank you. I will let you deal with the statistics of what you've just said. But with all honesty, if they've sent you to deal with the marketing of this thing, its no wonder they are short on deadlines and goals thus far. See you 2032. @ALMA Which IT guyz? I'll ask you a simple question... What IT product have you created or what IT idea have you given. At least these boys and girls in the IT business have done their Apps however crappy you think they are. Or are you the type that just criticize and have no clue of what they are criticizing.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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jamplu wrote:alma wrote:murchr wrote:alma wrote:murchr wrote:This is still not a city if you can't trust Kenyan architects who've proven they can actually build houses, then how do you trust the IT guys who just say they can? Follow the argument. My argument is that no Kenyan architect has proven to have planned a city...i stand to be corrected. As for your argument, i think you live in mars. Ask yourself why all technology companies are eyeing Kenya as an investment location. I live in Nairobi thank you. I will let you deal with the statistics of what you've just said. But with all honesty, if they've sent you to deal with the marketing of this thing, its no wonder they are short on deadlines and goals thus far. See you 2032. @ALMA Which IT guyz? I'll ask you a simple question... What IT product have you created or what IT idea have you given. At least these boys and girls in the IT business have done their Apps however crappy you think they are. Or are you the type that just criticize and have no clue of what they are criticizing. Kuja unione. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/27/2012 Posts: 851 Location: Nairobi
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fantony wrote:a4architect.com wrote:With the info Konza Developers are using to advertise, there is no major difference betwen the Tatu city/Migaa/Thika Greens form of marketing-the main aim is to create alot of hype which in turn increases demand and hence price of land goes up. If this hapens for Konza, investors will look for better places e.g Upper Hill, Ngong road e.tc where land price is equally high and infrastructure already in place.
The best way Govt. should do is try the Kitengela EPZ route-create an 'EPZ' kind of atmosphere with leased land,zero taxes and add ICT attractive features e.g ICT University,cable internet, ICT Gadget Manufacturers just like they do in EPZ.
What i can see with the current marketing is a good and effective method to sell real estate whereby the only winner is the land owner.
i thought all these were in place... what is going on??? @architect, ain't that what the city is for? Is the gov't supposed to do all that, in a vacuum? I also read another of your argument,the gov't should have partnered with EAPC, didn't you hear of the recent tussle? Why risk with EAPC? Your arguments are always morphing and at best, SIMPLISTIC.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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@ Mkiey....Ministry of Info is mandated to offer ICT and Information Policy and Infrastructure to Kenyans,not to buy land using tax payer money then re-sell the same land to Kenyans. Ministry of Info was given KES 1 Billion of tax payers money to do this. Instead, they put all the money in buying land instead of laying infrastructure. Instead of complaining, i offer to give them solutions such as utilizing Joint Venture concept whereby large land owners around Konza e.g EAP Cement,Malinda, Holcroft e.t.c could have been approached to offer land in the JV arrangement and Ministry of Info offers KES 1 B worth of infrastructure. I zeroed in on EAP Cement land because its partly owned by Ministry of Industrialization and the 99 year lease expired a few years ago,making it the easiest to negotiate with. Holcoft's[sp] land,14000 acres 99 year lease has also expired so its easy to negotiate with him. Very soon,squatters will invade if the Ministry of Lands does not renew or re-issues lease since nature abhors a vacuum. This makes it easy for Ministry of Lands to re-issue another lease favorable to Konza city, saving KES 1 Billion of tax payer money to go directly into ICT Infrastructure works. The EAP Cement land tussle is because currently the land has no owner so squatters have invaded a very small part of it, the area near Kitengela/railway track on the back .The front[10,000 acres] is still vacant and 5000 acres of this can be hived off to create an ICT City. Konza land also has its fair share of tussles e.g between AG Githu and PS Ndemo http://allafrica.com/stories/201201091213.html
http://www.casepolicy.org/?p=285
This 2009 tussle between original owners of Konza was resolved amicably http://www.businessdaily...4/-/68tuem/-/index.html
Feel free to ask detailed questions for an even more detailed explanation. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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murchr wrote:alma wrote:murchr wrote:This is still not a city if you can't trust Kenyan architects who've proven they can actually build houses, then how do you trust the IT guys who just say they can? Follow the argument. My argument is that no Kenyan architect has proven to have planned a city...i stand to be corrected. As for your argument, i think you live in mars. Ask yourself why all technology companies are eyeing Kenya as an investment location. Architect Mutiso of MMI has planned Buruburu,Umoja, area larger than 5000 acres Konza City. http://www.mmiarch.com/v...ct.php?projecttypeid=10
According to Wikipedia The most notable City planning project these London Engineers Pell Frischmann www.pellfrischmann.com/ have designed in UK is 42 acres. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pell_Frischmann
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_One
I have personally planned a City extension of a similar magnitude. Other Kenyan architects have done far much larger city planning projects. http://www.a4architect.c...signed-to-become-green/
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/27/2012 Posts: 851 Location: Nairobi
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a4architect.com wrote:@ Mkiey....Ministry of Info is mandated to offer ICT and Information Policy and Infrastructure to Kenyans,not to buy land using tax payer money then re-sell the same land to Kenyans. Ministry of Info was given KES 1 Billion of tax payers money to do this. Instead, they put all the money in buying land instead of laying infrastructure. Instead of complaining, i offer to give them solutions such as utilizing Joint Venture concept whereby large land owners around Konza e.g EAP Cement,Malinda, Holcroft e.t.c could have been approached to offer land in the JV arrangement and Ministry of Info offers KES 1 B worth of infrastructure. I zeroed in on EAP Cement land because its partly owned by Ministry of Industrialization and the 99 year lease expired a few years ago,making it the easiest to negotiate with. Holcoft's[sp] land,14000 acres 99 year lease has also expired so its easy to negotiate with him. Very soon,squatters will invade if the Ministry of Lands does not renew or re-issues lease since nature abhors a vacuum. This makes it easy for Ministry of Lands to re-issue another lease favorable to Konza city, saving KES 1 Billion of tax payer money to go directly into ICT Infrastructure works. The EAP Cement land tussle is because currently the land has no owner so squatters have invaded a very small part of it, the area near Kitengela/railway track on the back .The front[10,000 acres] is still vacant and 5000 acres of this can be hived off to create an ICT City. Konza land also has its fair share of tussles e.g between AG Githu and PS Ndemo http://allafrica.com/stories/201201091213.html
http://www.casepolicy.org/?p=285
This 2009 tussle between original owners of Konza was resolved amicably http://www.businessdaily...4/-/68tuem/-/index.html
Feel free to ask detailed questions for an even more detailed explanation. @architect, thanx for the info. Our differences are on the interpretation, mine is, owning the land gives total control to gov't. Decisions are easier/quicker to make whilst maintaining control to suit.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/2/2006 Posts: 1,206 Location: Nairobi
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bird_man wrote:Let me just ask this....
If you were Seven Seas,Craft Silicon,Nokia Siemens,Ericsson,Safaricom,Kencall,KDN,AK,IBM,HP etc.....why would you shift your office from Westlands/Mombasa Rd to Konza?
Is it that taxes will be lower?Fibre faster?Cheaper labour?Cheaper electricity?Huge market?
What? Formally employed people often live their employers' dream & forget about their own.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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@mkiey..welcome. In a JV, the Ministry of Info will be able to own the land/have total control while freeing cash to be used for infrastructure such as fibre optic. EAP Cement land offers best solution for this since the Ministry of Lands reserves the right to amend the issued and expired 99 year lease in favour of any public interest such as Konza City. Holcroft's[sp] land offer the 2nd best solution since his 99 year lease has already expired hence Ministry of Land can amend the land size in favour of public interest such as Konza city. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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Look at the countries served by these London based designers- Iraq, DRC Congo, Nigeria e.t.c http://www.pellfrischman...atest&x=49&y=18
Projects
Aqaba SEZ, Jordan
* Sector Sector: Land Development & Regeneration
* Sector Cost: 0
* Sector Client: Aqaba Development Corporation
* Sector Location: Jordan
Providing the masterplanning, strategic planning, a property development plan for the City of Aqaba. The new development includes 70,000 inhabitants, the Port of Aqaba (which covers 170 hectares of land and 38,000 hectares of sea), King Hussain International Airport (capacity of 1.5M passengers per year), sizable undeveloped lands, substantial infrastructure networks, a heavy industrial zone, an urban tourism zone on the Aqaba Corniche, a coastal resort zone along 11km of marine nature reserve with exquisite coral reef and a leisure community that covers over 450 hectares. read more
N Sele SEZ, DR Congo
* Sector Sector: Land Development & Regeneration
* Sector Cost: 50000
* Sector Client: IFC
* Sector Location: DR Congo
Assessment and review of a 3,000-hectare site in N’Sele near Kinshasa. The site is being developed through a detailed feasibility study involving site assessment of the existing infrastructure. The work includes determining the basic natural geographical and physical characteristics, major on-site and off-site infrastructure, and utilities infrastructure services. This initial first stage study will lead to the development of a masterplan in Stage 2. read more
Lekki Free Trade Zone, Nigeria
* Sector Sector: Land Development & Regeneration
* Sector Cost: £ 620,000,000
* Sector Client: Nigeria Infrastructure Advisory Facility
* Sector Location: Nigeria
Providing an independent technical review of the Lekki Free Trade Zone (LDTZ) and professional advice to the Lagos State Government. The 20 year development is located 60km east of Lagos within a 16,500 hectare site. This effectively new city will include extensive residential and recreational developments as well as manufacturing, logistics, oil and gas, a port and an airport. read more
Al Samaliah Island, U.A.E
* Sector Sector: Land Development & Regeneration
* Sector Cost: £ 165,000,000
* Sector Client: H.H. Sheikh Sultan Bin Zayed Al-Nahyan
* Sector Location: Abu Dhabi, U.A.E.
Located approximately 12km to the east of Abu Dhabi, and covering a land mass of 14km2 the development has become a ‘Heritage Island’ dedicated to the preservation, promotion and exhibition of Abu Dhabi’s social, cultural and sporting heritage. The Al Samaliah Island project is unique because it uses “Heritage Architecture” on an unprecedented scale and is capable of engendering continuous and lasting social and environmental impact. In 2008 it won the Gulf States Building Award, ‘Culture Award’, an award created for Pell Frischmann’s entry. In the same year it also was ‘Commended’ by the British Expertise International Awards for the ‘Sport, Leisure and Tourism’ award. read more
Kirkuk City Expansion, Iraq
* Sector Sector: Land Development & Regeneration
* Sector Cost: £ 2,360,000
* Sector Client: US & Iraq Governments
* Sector Location: Kirkuk, Iraq
Provided masterplanning, urban design, utilities engineering, and planning expertise for this major £200M reconstruction effort. The City of Kirkuk has an area of 11,000 hectares and a population of 1.05 million. Our brief included a review of existing and historic city plans and assessment of urban infrastructure in light of forecast of growth patterns over 25-year horizon. Trained 50-100 Iraqi to overtake the execution of the masterplan providing sustainability. Also delivered a transport strategy, which efficiently provided for the movement of people and goods. read more
More »
Kenya has enough experts to handle its own designs without relying on Worldbabnk/IFC consultancy services . No wonder John Perkin's book CONFESSIONS OF AN ECONOMIC HITMAN will continue to sell millions of copies. http://en.wikipedia.org/..._of_an_Economic_Hit_Man
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/13/2009 Posts: 1,950 Location: in kenya
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Personally I dont have a problem with setting aside Land for IT but I have a problem with the government using public cash to market Real estate. If you look at Abuja The Nigerian govt planned and zoned the city then they left an authority to take over.The investors did most of the development. The same thing need to be done In Konza...plan and zone out the land then form the authority that will take over the management of the city. ICTboard shld concentrate in building linkages and capacity i.e encourage developers and entrepreneurs to form synergies that can offer local solutions and at the same time compete globally. When you look at what we have now BPO is as good as dead..I think Kencall and some very few local players are still navigating through this murky sector. Its a pity Airtel and safaricom had to source/build their own BPOs to cater for their customers. We dont need the govt to do everything..let the private sector be empowered..its a pity that most critical sectors of the economy lack competition from the private sector..look at KPLC,KPC,KPA why cant we have private enterprises having their own pipeline or power transmission. These inadequencies makes Konza city look like a mirage unless foreign investors bite the bullet and take over the city like the initial reports are indicating. '......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/25/2010 Posts: 939 Location: Nai
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alma wrote:jamplu wrote:alma wrote:murchr wrote:alma wrote:murchr wrote:This is still not a city if you can't trust Kenyan architects who've proven they can actually build houses, then how do you trust the IT guys who just say they can? Follow the argument. My argument is that no Kenyan architect has proven to have planned a city...i stand to be corrected. As for your argument, i think you live in mars. Ask yourself why all technology companies are eyeing Kenya as an investment location. I live in Nairobi thank you. I will let you deal with the statistics of what you've just said. But with all honesty, if they've sent you to deal with the marketing of this thing, its no wonder they are short on deadlines and goals thus far. See you 2032. @ALMA Which IT guyz? I'll ask you a simple question... What IT product have you created or what IT idea have you given. At least these boys and girls in the IT business have done their Apps however crappy you think they are. Or are you the type that just criticize and have no clue of what they are criticizing. Kuja unione. Just answer the question!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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@jamplu, I don't get your argument. So, if I have never created an IT product then I am not qualified to talk about this project? Then in that case, ditto to the ICT board and everyone from the PS to the cleaner at the ministry of Information. I wonder what apps they've created. Most of whose CV consists of working at 3 mice. I still insist that without manpower, this is not an ICT city but a Real Estate venture. If you have read this thread, you will see that the very gov't of Kenya has outsourced nearly every major project to a company in another country. Their excuse has always been that there aren't good companies that can handle the projects. If Ndemo himself can outsource all gov't data to Google, exactly what are you talking about being an IT hub? As for your question, I was doing something in technology before there was internet in Kenya. I retired 3 yrs ago and spend my time surfing the net and walking around nairobi from one mbuzi to another. Yet something tells me that I'm younger than you and you are busy in the office. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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