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Do brokers use limit price orders for profiteering?
Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 1,279 Location: nbi
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With all the broker issues at the NSE, I now do all my orders on a limit price basis. However, I've noticed something uniquely Kenyan in the way the NSE brokers process such orders. For a limit price order, the limit price seems to become the buying or selling price. In almost every other stock market I’ve tried, the broker has always used the limit price as a guide for him to find me the best price. My strong suspicion is that the NSE brokers take profit from limit price orders. If say I send in a limit selling price of Ksh26 for my 10,000 Equity shares and Equity goes to Ksh26.50, I suspect that the broker sells the shares at Ksh26.50, gives me my receipt at Ksh26 and pockets the difference less commission. The Governor of Nyeri - 2017
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 6/17/2009 Posts: 1,621
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Wa_ithaka wrote:With all the broker issues at the NSE, I now do all my orders on a limit price basis. However, I've noticed something uniquely Kenyan in the way the NSE brokers process such orders. For a limit price order, the limit price seems to become the buying or selling price. In almost every other stock market I’ve tried, the broker has always used the limit price as a guide for him to find me the best price. My strong suspicion is that the NSE brokers take profit from limit price orders. If say I send in a limit selling price of Ksh26 for my 10,000 Equity shares and Equity goes to Ksh26.50, I suspect that the broker sells the shares at Ksh26.50, gives me my receipt at Ksh26 and pockets the difference less commission.
I dont think so,unless they are able to compromise CDSC. If you are subscribed to the latter's SMS you would get an alert for the sale at 26.50,how would the broker go around that?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 6/2/2010 Posts: 1,075
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I have also wondered about this.
The below is an extract from wikipedia on the definition of front running...........
Front running is the illegal practice of a stock broker executing orders on a security for its own account while taking advantage of advance knowledge of pending orders from its customers. When orders previously submitted by its customers will predictably affect the price of the security, purchasing first for its own account gives the broker an unfair advantage, since it can expect to close out its position at a profit based on the new price level. Front running may involve either buying (where the broker buys for their account, before filling customer buy orders that drive up the price) or selling (where the broker sells for its own account, before filling customer sell orders that drive down the price).
Allegations of front running occasionally arise in stock and commodity exchanges, in scandals concerning floor brokers and exchange specialists.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/24/2010 Posts: 846 Location: KENYA
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Hmmm....Ive also noticed that the limit price is definitely quoted as the buy or sell price.It is as if the two terms are interchangeable. Something suspicious is at play here and must be explained. It could be laziness by the brokers at best or mischief at worst. Still, it affects the portfolio negatively to a significant extent.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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@Wa_ithaka & Merchant; which brokers do you use? I think it is time you moved! I use NIC. Been with them since the days they were known as Solid Investments. I have never seen that trend. If I quote sell at a minimum of, say, 26, I do sometimes get a price of even 27.5 If I say buy at max 26, I will get even 25. And as noted by cnn; subscribe to the CDSC service. You will get an SMS each time a transaction goes through your account...free of charge! The messages come promptly at 4.03pm Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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If you trust your broker; move! Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/16/2010 Posts: 672 Location: nairobi
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mukiha wrote:@Wa_ithaka & Merchant; which brokers do you use? I think it is time you moved!
I use NIC. Been with them since the days they were known as Solid Investments.
I have never seen that trend. If I quote sell at a minimum of, say, 26, I do sometimes get a price of even 27.5
If I say buy at max 26, I will get even 25.
And as noted by cnn; subscribe to the CDSC service. You will get an SMS each time a transaction goes through your account...free of charge! The messages come promptly at 4.03pm I use Faida Investment Bank ....and the case is the same.....they make me smile at times coz they sell at a higher price ama buy at a lower price! God gave me the power to make wealth ... Blessed the work of my hands & enabled be A SELF MADE BILLIONAIRE ...... TO GOD THE FATHER OF MY LORD JESUS CHRIST; BE THE GLORY NOW & FOREVER MORE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/16/2007 Posts: 2,114
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@Mukiha, I doubt the CDSC service is free!I think the SMS recipient pays for it..There was a time a trade went through but I never got the SMS due to not having airtime..?I only got to know about the trade after requesting for my statement from my broker.Even after buying airtime the following day,I never got the SMS which probabaly means if you don't have airtime on the day the tred occurs,you will not know...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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. Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/10/2007 Posts: 1,587
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Chaka wrote:@Mukiha, I doubt the CDSC service is free!I think the SMS recipient pays for it..There was a time a trade went through but I never got the SMS due to not having airtime..?I only got to know about the trade after requesting for my statement from my broker.Even after buying airtime the following day,I never got the SMS which probabaly means if you don't have airtime on the day the tred occurs,you will not know... Occassionally you they may fail to sms, but it is a little rare
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/18/2009 Posts: 118
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mukiha wrote:If you trust your broker; move!  This one is funny. Just move to the broker you do NOT trust. But I am sure that this was a typo,no?
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/18/2009 Posts: 118
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I have experienced this as well. I do not think it is so much of an ulterior motive. It is mainly due to laziness on the part of the dealers.
Besides you have to remember that brokers work for a commission.
The faster they execute the deals at prices that do do not require them to wait, the sooner they get their pay.
Also this can enable them to match the trades both ways meaning they get a commission from both sides of the table. I would do it if I were in their shoes.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 3/24/2010 Posts: 6,779 Location: Black Africa
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PKoli, Chaka is right. If you don't have credit, you get a message from your service provider saying you don't have enough money to use the service. Hata uweke pesa ngapi afterwards, you will never get the message. The service costs 10 bob per alert by the way. If you buy 100 kq shares and another 100 centum shares, that is 2 alerts, therefore 20 bob GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,215 Location: Nairobi
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Laziness BUT also how large is your order? Say you place an order to buy KenolKobil at 10/- the broker simply enters the order/bid... It is automated... When there Offers come in at 10/- & there are sufficient shares to 'fill' your order... It is done... Solution: Bid or Offer [Limit Orders] at what you want. If you want to buy KK at 9/- the bid 9/- not 10/-! Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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On liquid counters I always market orders and nothing ever goes wrong... Like for example yesterday and today i placed orders for Kenol at market price and picked them up at 9.95 on both days even though there were asks at 10-10.1... Same thing when i sold KPLC... its closed at 234 on both days when i sold with lows of 231 but my broker got my shares sold at 238 with a market order.... if the broker is experienced then one doesnt need to place limit orders on liquid shares... Mark 12:29 Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/7/2007 Posts: 2,182
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seems like there good brokers and lazy ones i wish i knew the good ones!! LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/18/2009 Posts: 118
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guru267 wrote:On liquid counters I always market orders and nothing ever goes wrong...
Like for example yesterday and today i placed orders for Kenol at market price and picked them up at 9.95 on both days even though there were asks at 10-10.1...
Same thing when i sold KPLC... its closed at 234 on both days when i sold with lows of 231 but my broker got my shares sold at 238 with a market order....
if the broker is experienced then one doesnt need to place limit orders on liquid shares... Is this the same broker - Dyer & Blair that you were bashing the other day? Or have you now found yourself a "good" broker?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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Renegade wrote:guru267 wrote:On liquid counters I always market orders and nothing ever goes wrong...
Like for example yesterday and today i placed orders for Kenol at market price and picked them up at 9.95 on both days even though there were asks at 10-10.1...
Same thing when i sold KPLC... its closed at 234 on both days when i sold with lows of 231 but my broker got my shares sold at 238 with a market order....
if the broker is experienced then one doesnt need to place limit orders on liquid shares... Is this the same broker - Dyer & Blair that you were bashing the other day? Or have you now found yourself a "good" broker? NOPE its D&B... they can be very inefficient at times but believe me they know how to get the best prices on the NSE... Mark 12:29 Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/18/2008 Posts: 796
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My 2 cents wrote:I have also wondered about this.
The below is an extract from wikipedia on the definition of front running...........
My 2 cents.. I think you and Wa_ithaka are describing two different scenarios (both unethical). Wa_ithaka is talking about brokers stealing from their clients by executing client orders at higher prices and only submitting the lower figure. With the CDSC sms alert, this is unlikely.. unless you've seen a variance between your broker statement and the alert. Front running on the other hand is very likely to be happening and is very difficult to prosecute or prove.. After all if a broker starts buying on his own behalf because he's noticed that a lot of his clients are interested in a stock, there's no way to prove that he's interest in the stock did not arise from the same reasons as his clients or from different one's for that matter. Same thing applies if he dumps stocks because he's seen that his clients are dumping them.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/12/2010 Posts: 1,199 Location: Eastlander
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Wa_ithaka wrote:With all the broker issues at the NSE, I now do all my orders on a limit price basis. However, I've noticed something uniquely Kenyan in the way the NSE brokers process such orders. For a limit price order, the limit price seems to become the buying or selling price. In almost every other stock market I’ve tried, the broker has always used the limit price as a guide for him to find me the best price. My strong suspicion is that the NSE brokers take profit from limit price orders. If say I send in a limit selling price of Ksh26 for my 10,000 Equity shares and Equity goes to Ksh26.50, I suspect that the broker sells the shares at Ksh26.50, gives me my receipt at Ksh26 and pockets the difference less commission.
if you were a broker..here..or better still..employed by a broker here..and your salary came in format of commission on how much money u bring the firm, would you act any different? considering all/bulk of firms revenues are commission based..and very thin opportunities for income elsewhere apart from may be trading in your own name. ..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16 - 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
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Do brokers use limit price orders for profiteering?
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