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EAPC profit warning
Surealligator
#1 Posted : Thursday, September 09, 2010 11:46:41 AM
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Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 709
Location: Velayat-e Faryab
With over 53 million dollars loan to pay in yen denomination, East African Portland Cement is headed for rough waters. The Yen has appreciated against the Kenya Shilling by almost 40%. If EAPC profits wont be dented, they will be wiped out, period.Sad {|=
Go overdrive in purchasing the goods when there's blood on the streets, expecially if the blood is your own
kizee
#2 Posted : Thursday, September 09, 2010 11:48:40 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/9/2008
Posts: 537
i had this argument a year or 2 ago...no one in wazua thought they shud hedge the loan...the usdjpy is at a 15 year high! and the BOJ is not intervening! nikufyam
Njung'e
#3 Posted : Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:05:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
Results will be out today.......Get ready for a loss.
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
Intelligentsia
#4 Posted : Thursday, September 09, 2010 1:58:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
I heard this many many more yrs ago, I thought they had retired this yen-denominated term loan by a swap by now!
It is a classic case study of how ignoring the effect of foreign exchange risk can wreak havoc on your bottom line even as the topline is performing. It is also failure to read the fine print in the loan agreement since the various options like pre-payment of the loan were expressly forbidden in the loan covenants signed with the japanese financier - and have been paying their pound of flesh ever since. Plus the allegations of mismanagement. Iko sida hapa.
Wa_ithaka
#5 Posted : Thursday, September 09, 2010 2:09:51 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/7/2010
Posts: 1,279
Location: nbi
Sure-you are not the only one who has questioned the sanity of the Board and senior managers at EAPC re this Yen loan. The amount of losses EAPC has made would have made anybody swap it locally with Ksh, but no.
I wonder what the shareholders talk about at the AGMs. The size of the chicken portions?
The Governor of Nyeri - 2017
passiveinvestor
#6 Posted : Thursday, September 09, 2010 7:34:36 PM
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Joined: 12/8/2006
Posts: 104
I have it on good authority that the board stated that they would hedge the exposure and that besides that the GOK would absorb the FX losses on the loan.
hisah
#7 Posted : Friday, September 10, 2010 5:58:11 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
kizee wrote:
i had this argument a year or 2 ago...no one in wazua thought they shud hedge the loan...the usdjpy is at a 15 year high! and the BOJ is not intervening! nikufyam


The usdjpy is at 15yr low since this is read as usd vs jpy. Anyway the yen has gained against major currencies. The swiss franc too has done the same. The $ safe haven status is at stake as per the moves of the yen (despite japan being in heavy debt) & franc plus gold & silver.
EAPC will bleed on this huge yen gains. It's becoming suicidal to borrow in forex as the money sys is under stress since 2008. It's a good thing gov shelved that eurobond. I don't think the yen will gain anymore going forward since forex COT (Commitment of Traders) shows a bullish extreme of yen positions. This warns of a major turn just like what happened to the eur/usd. I also expect the BoJ (bank of japan) to intervene on the yen strength since the jap econ is on the ropes & exports matters to this econ.
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
kizee
#8 Posted : Friday, September 10, 2010 12:47:06 PM
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Joined: 1/9/2008
Posts: 537
tx for that hishash..usdjpy is at 15 r lows..lol..hey regrading the yen the line in the sand is 83 and the mkt is lukin set to test that lvl...eapc cud easily hedge this loan out...

@passiveinvestor..i dont get why the GOK wud do this..the hedge wud really not cost EAPCC anything as it wud be a mere exchange of cashflows....
githendu
#9 Posted : Friday, September 10, 2010 1:09:27 PM
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Joined: 9/10/2010
Posts: 1
I agree with kizee. more to this companies should not always look to govt to bail them when its their own blunder (lack of planning)
kizee
#10 Posted : Friday, September 10, 2010 1:28:14 PM
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Joined: 1/9/2008
Posts: 537
githendu wrote:
I agree with kizee. more to this companies should not always look to govt to bail them when its their own blunder (lack of planning)



yes because ultimately the tax payer is the looser
passiveinvestor
#11 Posted : Saturday, September 11, 2010 11:18:29 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/8/2006
Posts: 104
I believe this thread was discussing what investors anticipate is going to happen in relation to the company's financial results.

The moral or political debate as to whether or not GOK SHOULD provide this subsidy is a separate issue, except insofar as it raises a question regarding Management's judgement in entering into the financing agreement on the terms and in JPY. But to debate that, we'd need greater insight into the actual terms of the loan, the purpose of the loan and the return that the firm has generated from investing the loan proceeds.
hisah
#12 Posted : Sunday, September 12, 2010 3:14:11 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
kizee wrote:
tx for that hishash..usdjpy is at 15 r lows..lol..hey regrading the yen the line in the sand is 83 and the mkt is lukin set to test that lvl...eapc cud easily hedge this loan out...

@passiveinvestor..i dont get why the GOK wud do this..the hedge wud really not cost EAPCC anything as it wud be a mere exchange of cashflows....


83 is proving tough to break. Below this is 79. But positive RSI divergence against the sliding price also suggests the next move is up. Above 85.25 is required to confirm trend reversal.
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
hisah
#13 Posted : Wednesday, September 15, 2010 3:31:16 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
hisah wrote:
kizee wrote:
tx for that hishash..usdjpy is at 15 r lows..lol..hey regrading the yen the line in the sand is 83 and the mkt is lukin set to test that lvl...eapc cud easily hedge this loan out...

@passiveinvestor..i dont get why the GOK wud do this..the hedge wud really not cost EAPCC anything as it wud be a mere exchange of cashflows....


83 is proving tough to break. Below this is 79. But positive RSI divergence against the sliding price also suggests the next move is up. Above 85.25 is required to confirm trend reversal.


Bank of Japan intervenes on strong Yen.
Japan Intervenes for First Time Since 2004 to Rein in Yen
And the forex manipulation, oh scratch that, meant intervention, continue. Money wars smile

Long USD/JPY on break of SMA20 (84.50) and tech barrier (85.25). 1st target 87.20 , 2nd target 88.00 and 3rd target 89.00 (but I doubt it'll see this level).
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
kizee
#14 Posted : Wednesday, September 15, 2010 3:40:34 PM
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Joined: 1/9/2008
Posts: 537
last time they intervened they spent +35tr yen and it failed,think the market will keep testing that 83.00 level and take it out BoJ are not larger than the market..no one is
hisah
#15 Posted : Wednesday, September 15, 2010 3:44:56 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
kizee wrote:
last time they intervened they spent +35tr yen and it failed,think the market will keep testing that 83.00 level and take it out BoJ are not larger than the market..no one is


SNB has spent almost $21B since last year trying to intervene on the Swiss Franc. And they lost. ECB and her sister IMF printed $1 trillion to save the euro this May as the debt crisis sent chills down eurozone. The euro is still hopeless. BoE is broke, it can't save the pound. I'm waiting for the bloodbath and gold is confirm the money war is gaining strength.
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
kizee
#16 Posted : Wednesday, September 15, 2010 3:52:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/9/2008
Posts: 537
hisah wrote:
kizee wrote:
last time they intervened they spent +35tr yen and it failed,think the market will keep testing that 83.00 level and take it out BoJ are not larger than the market..no one is


SNB has spent almost $21B since last year trying to intervene on the Swiss Franc. And they lost. ECB and her sister IMF printed $1 trillion to save the euro this May as the debt crisis sent chills down eurozone. The euro is still hopeless. BoE is broke, it can't save the pound. I'm waiting for the bloodbath and gold is confirm the money war is gaining strength.



ur rite my friend...oddly enuf japans fundamentals are the yens achilles heel..really catch 22 stuff
hisah
#17 Posted : Wednesday, September 15, 2010 3:59:56 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
kizee wrote:
hisah wrote:
kizee wrote:
last time they intervened they spent +35tr yen and it failed,think the market will keep testing that 83.00 level and take it out BoJ are not larger than the market..no one is


SNB has spent almost $21B since last year trying to intervene on the Swiss Franc. And they lost. ECB and her sister IMF printed $1 trillion to save the euro this May as the debt crisis sent chills down eurozone. The euro is still hopeless. BoE is broke, it can't save the pound. I'm waiting for the bloodbath and gold is confirm the money war is gaining strength.



ur rite my friend...oddly enuf japans fundamentals are the yens achilles heel..really catch 22 stuff


Next action point Sept 21st when the US Fed (FOMC) meet and state their actions smile
Wall Street 2.0 is also being launched the same week - Sept 24th - Gordon Gekko is back smile
I'm so liking this action after months of boredom trading.

$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
kizee
#18 Posted : Wednesday, September 15, 2010 5:21:49 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/9/2008
Posts: 537
hisah wrote:
kizee wrote:
hisah wrote:
kizee wrote:
last time they intervened they spent +35tr yen and it failed,think the market will keep testing that 83.00 level and take it out BoJ are not larger than the market..no one is


SNB has spent almost $21B since last year trying to intervene on the Swiss Franc. And they lost. ECB and her sister IMF printed $1 trillion to save the euro this May as the debt crisis sent chills down eurozone. The euro is still hopeless. BoE is broke, it can't save the pound. I'm waiting for the bloodbath and gold is confirm the money war is gaining strength.



ur rite my friend...oddly enuf japans fundamentals are the yens achilles heel..really catch 22 stuff


Next action point Sept 21st when the US Fed (FOMC) meet and state their actions smile
Wall Street 2.0 is also being launched the same week - Sept 24th - Gordon Gekko is back smile
I'm so liking this action after months of boredom trading.




lol...boring trading? u have no idea.. mate i trade sub sahara and KES mainly...its worse than watching paint dry!
VituVingiSana
#19 Posted : Wednesday, September 15, 2010 7:48:07 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,212
Location: Nairobi
@kizee - How do you trade KES? Private or for a bank? The spreads are a killer!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
hisah
#20 Posted : Wednesday, September 15, 2010 9:35:44 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
kizee wrote:
hisah wrote:
kizee wrote:
hisah wrote:
kizee wrote:
last time they intervened they spent +35tr yen and it failed,think the market will keep testing that 83.00 level and take it out BoJ are not larger than the market..no one is


SNB has spent almost $21B since last year trying to intervene on the Swiss Franc. And they lost. ECB and her sister IMF printed $1 trillion to save the euro this May as the debt crisis sent chills down eurozone. The euro is still hopeless. BoE is broke, it can't save the pound. I'm waiting for the bloodbath and gold is confirm the money war is gaining strength.



ur rite my friend...oddly enuf japans fundamentals are the yens achilles heel..really catch 22 stuff


Next action point Sept 21st when the US Fed (FOMC) meet and state their actions smile
Wall Street 2.0 is also being launched the same week - Sept 24th - Gordon Gekko is back smile
I'm so liking this action after months of boredom trading.




lol...boring trading? u have no idea.. mate i trade sub sahara and KES mainly...its worse than watching paint dry!


@kizee - something for you and Gordon Gekko (wazuan) Click here...
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
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