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KQ..store of value..compared to 2 months ago!
ProverB
#1 Posted : Friday, June 18, 2010 6:52:18 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/12/2010
Posts: 1,199
Location: Eastlander
I will quote someone first..
qw25041985 wrote:
A 52 week high is a buying opportunity like it or not. What matters is what kind of a trader you ar. A momentum trader will put more emphasis on the 52 week high than say a value investor.


so, to traders...and investor..

The average price of KQ in march was Kshs 58.6
Thanx to muganda's comment elsewere..i revisited the "Greater fool Theory"...where someone out there will always be more of a fool than you to pay a higher price than the one you paid for a stock you hold!smile

So.. comparing that price to fundamentals..
PSR..price to sales ratio = Kshs 0.38..for every shilling KQ collected in revenues..investors in march were paying 38 CENTS..PSR less than 1 is always a nice attention grabber for me! smile

P/E..price to earnings ratio = 13.33...for evry shilling reported by KQ as earnings, investors were paying 13.33 Kshs..

(but the earnings for KQ were "manipulated" in terms of huge chunk of earnings is not from core business of air transport bothe people and cargo..thus why PSR is better criteria for me....on my opinion)


Dividend Yield of 1.71...compared to overal market..i guesss the return as dividend is better than most
So..is thatthe best price to buy in i ask? If all i desired to own was a portion of the shareholders' fund of KQ..which, per share is Kshs 40.24...and paid Kshs 58.6 for it... for a shilling in KQ's shareholders' equity i'd hav paid Kshs 1.46!...46% higher

But today.. assuming price is Kshs 47.5
PSR is down to 0.31
P/E is down to 10.80
Dividend Yield is UP..Applause ..to 2.11

but for a portion of shareholders' equity..price at 47.5 someone who paid 47.5 today is paying Kshs 1.18 for every shilling in equity...yaaani...paying Kshs 1.18 to have a right to be a shareholder of 1shilling of the shareholders' equity fund

The Lower the price the greater the value in our national carrier...

Considering the Greater fool Thory...plus Value investing...the lower KQ goes..the Bigger my smile gets..

The problem i have... is on the management focussing on fuel hedging rather than operating busines!!Sad

But rather than sit and wait..find a pot of Gold somewhere..and BUY through spreading... split 100K into 10 lots..or more..and buy as price moves..consistency is the KEY!!...and as Kina Deal and VVS will start rejoicing at some distant future when KQ recovers..You won't be laughing..you'll be nodding at your wisdom.Applause
..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
VituVingiSana
#2 Posted : Monday, June 21, 2010 12:23:33 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,110
Location: Nairobi
@proverB - Nicely done... I do not have your patience nowadays to do all that explaining...

Note the NAV is slightly higher than what you state... I think around 43/- based on the FY 2009-10 balance sheet...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
ProverB
#3 Posted : Monday, June 21, 2010 4:55:10 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/12/2010
Posts: 1,199
Location: Eastlander
@vvs. I used average share holders' equity for 2008/2009 thus why my figure is lower than the one you quote. Thanx anyways.

. Price lower..now question remains what time scale to use in spread buying... Think

..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
VituVingiSana
#4 Posted : Tuesday, June 22, 2010 9:52:44 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,110
Location: Nairobi
@ProverB - For ROE calcs... yes

Not for NAV since it is a number at a specific point in time... In this case, u already have the NAV for 31 March 2010... so why bother with what they had in between?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
sheep
#5 Posted : Tuesday, June 22, 2010 10:07:56 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/24/2008
Posts: 781
People,you do know that NAV has no much use in valuing the airline industry.
The utimate goal of investing is to buy low sell high;if we re-write this core equation in psychology terms it becomes buy fear sell greed.
VituVingiSana
#6 Posted : Tuesday, June 22, 2010 10:29:53 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,110
Location: Nairobi
sheep wrote:
People,you do know that NAV has no much use in valuing the airline industry.


NAV is a one of many 'tools'... NAV is also of little 'value' in many others...

ScanGroup, KenGen, KPLC, etc...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
ProverB
#7 Posted : Tuesday, June 22, 2010 12:59:13 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/12/2010
Posts: 1,199
Location: Eastlander
@sheep...@ vvs too.. Thanx for the lesson.

My thinking.. i want to buy into KQ. Already there are existing shareholder's..including the one selling to me..in my judging the price..i have to think what my actual investment is.. hence shareholders' fund... that is what i'm buying..any profits..returns earned either go there..or drain that fund..dividend is paid from that fund too..
it is only wise that "me" as an individual will consider the price i am paying for a share against the portion of shareholder's fund that i will be entitled to.

This is my own practice...not an "INVESTMENT RULE"..just my own approach.
..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
VituVingiSana
#8 Posted : Tuesday, June 22, 2010 1:21:09 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,110
Location: Nairobi
KQ's major assets (planes) are easily 'sold' at a discount but liquid... Why liquid? Coz planes have a huge market as long as they are NOT too old!!!

As for KQ, the other large assets are cash + buildings... The building (Pride Center) might be good for a university to buy out... The simulator will be a huge expense for KQ but these have a market as well outside of Kenya at a discount...

So the REALISABLE NAV may not be 43/- but it provides a 'backstop' for KQ...

The problem are the HIGH operational fixed expenses... whether they fly or not...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
the deal
#9 Posted : Tuesday, June 22, 2010 1:26:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
Everything is in their favour,the hedges,weak shilling...passenger no's have been increasing in the last 3 Quaters...i wanna add more,waiting to see if we will breach the 44 bob mark.
ProverB
#10 Posted : Tuesday, June 22, 2010 1:33:42 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/12/2010
Posts: 1,199
Location: Eastlander
the deal wrote:
Everything is in their favour,the hedges,weak shilling...passenger no's have been increasing in the last 3 Quaters...i wanna add more,waiting to see if we will breach the 44 bob mark.


@deal..so you are actually "cost averaging" by buying more..it makes your overal acquisition cost get lower plus basis of buying more is hinged on company prospects rather than cost cutting.. and the way most people trash cost averaging on this site!!

..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
VituVingiSana
#11 Posted : Tuesday, June 22, 2010 2:03:42 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,110
Location: Nairobi
Lakini... the management has gotten stale!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
ProverB
#12 Posted : Tuesday, June 22, 2010 2:14:07 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/12/2010
Posts: 1,199
Location: Eastlander
VituVingiSana wrote:
Lakini... the management has gotten stale!



Applause Applause Applause
True Dat!!

No matter how good prospects seem they somehow manage to underperform! if Naikuni was N.Korean i thin he'd be called Sum Ting WOng!Sickquot;
..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
VituVingiSana
#13 Posted : Tuesday, June 22, 2010 2:24:14 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,110
Location: Nairobi
ProverB wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Lakini... the management has gotten stale!


Applause Applause Applause
True Dat!!

No matter how good prospects seem they somehow manage to underperform! if Naikuni was N.Korean i thin he'd be called Sum Ting WOng!Sickquot;


LOLest! He makes almost 50mn yet has almost no KQ shares... His interests not aligned with ours
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
the deal
#14 Posted : Tuesday, June 22, 2010 2:41:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
VituVingiSana wrote:
ProverB wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Lakini... the management has gotten stale!


Applause Applause Applause
True Dat!!

No matter how good prospects seem they somehow manage to underperform! if Naikuni was N.Korean i thin he'd be called Sum Ting WOng!Sickquot;


LOLest! He makes almost 50mn yet has almost no KQ shares... His interests not aligned with ours

LOL...so he doesnt care if he sinks us...50mn yet those guys who work @ the ground earn 20-30K...its a shame....
VituVingiSana
#15 Posted : Tuesday, June 22, 2010 6:46:41 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,110
Location: Nairobi
the deal wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
ProverB wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Lakini... the management has gotten stale!


Applause Applause Applause
True Dat!!

No matter how good prospects seem they somehow manage to underperform! if Naikuni was N.Korean i thin he'd be called Sum Ting WOng!Sickquot;


LOLest! He makes almost 50mn yet has almost no KQ shares... His interests not aligned with ours

LOL...so he doesnt care if he sinks us...50mn yet those guys who work @ the ground earn 20-30K...its a shame....

Not 50mn/month but per year... Lakini, u dont expect a sweeper to match the pay either... just saying...

BTW, pilots are very well paid or they might fly away...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
the deal
#16 Posted : Wednesday, June 23, 2010 12:47:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
I have now averaged to 47 bob...from 50 something.
VituVingiSana
#17 Posted : Wednesday, June 23, 2010 1:28:22 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,110
Location: Nairobi
the deal wrote:
I have now averaged to 47 bob...from 50 something.

I did a re-alignment as well... I sold my CMC...

- KQ is at NAV (or lower coz the planes are priced in US$ which is now stronger)...

- Fuel has dropped in price thus the operational costs will be lower for now. The hedges will take a hit but that is not an immediate cash loss...

- At lower fuel prices, KQ can enter into additional hedges at lower prices...

- The WC2010 has pushed through additional tourists through Kenya/JKIA using KQ. A pity the African teams have performed poorly...

BTW, KQ codeshares with Korean Airlines... I hope they use KQ to get to Jo'burg!

Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
qw25041985
#18 Posted : Wednesday, June 23, 2010 1:30:46 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 5/9/2010
Posts: 1,418
Location: Nai
KQ is up . yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.I just hope we pass resistance at 51.00 /= then it'll be easy to head to Ksh 60/= .Yeah i know its far fetched but i hav to be optimistic. i think sellers are done with their panic sellin enough now. On matters Co-Op. Actually no words.Let me just enjoy the rally i'll get back to u latter. ehehehehee !!!!!!!!!!
Your future depends on your dreams so go to sleep !
VituVingiSana
#19 Posted : Wednesday, June 23, 2010 2:04:30 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,110
Location: Nairobi
@qw - 444,000+ KQ shares traded with 68% net purchases by foreigners... I hope you are right on the technical side... I am confident on the fundamental side coz of the reasons I gave above...

- Weak KES helps KQ coz 90% sales in foreign currency mostly US$
- Lower oil prices hurts hedge gains BUT benefits from lower operational costs.
- Planes in US$ are worth 'more' in KES
- WC2010 effects will be postive coz 60,000+ folks expected to fly KQ NBO-JoBurg-NBO. This will negate losses from ash cloud.
- New planes expected
- New destinations in 1H 2010-11 (Muscat, Juba already open)

I still have my gripes about the management...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
the deal
#20 Posted : Wednesday, June 23, 2010 2:24:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
VituVingiSana wrote:
@qw - 444,000+ KQ shares traded with 68% net purchases by foreigners... I hope you are right on the technical side... I am confident on the fundamental side coz of the reasons I gave above...

- Weak KES helps KQ coz 90% sales in foreign currency mostly US$
- Lower oil prices hurts hedge gains BUT benefits from lower operational costs.
- Planes in US$ are worth 'more' in KES
- WC2010 effects will be postive coz 60,000+ folks expected to fly KQ NBO-JoBurg-NBO. This will negate losses from ash cloud.
- New planes expected
- New destinations in 1H 2010-11 (Muscat, Juba already open)

I still have my gripes about the management...

According to bloomberg...KQ and China airlines have joined Air France's sky alliance team...hope they can now code share with China airlines...its booming those sides...the management is main limiting factor...
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