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I need your advise guys. Please help me out.
titanic
#1 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2010 7:58:19 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 1/5/2010
Posts: 10
Location: Nairobi
I have 3 mortgages for houses A, B and C. Paying mortgage of 38K, 40K and 70K respectively per month. Live in C, I rent out A at 20K per month and B is incomplete (under construction). Monthly net earnings inclusive of rents is 147K. Loan balances for A,B,C are 2.4m, 2.9m and 5m respectively. Current values for ABC are 4.2m, 4.2m and 6.5m. Have about 1.5m in dead stocks (current value is much lower). My monthly expenses is 50K. Enrolled for an MBA which costs 500k and need to buy a car of max 600k. Want to get out of debt wana wazua please advise.
redondo
#2 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2010 8:42:28 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 161
Location: nairobi
@ titanic,It sounds to me like you are biting more than you can chew. if i were you i would put off buying the car for now and continue using whatever transport means you are currently using. secondly i would dispose of property C at the market value. that would leave me with about 3.6 million which i would use to pay off the outstanding loan on A. i would then move into property A and put the amount left from the sale of C into developing B.

The effect would be that you have one property that is completely yours(debt free), a second that is under construction and you would be living rent free as well.

.... Just an opinion
muganda
#3 Posted : Tuesday, January 05, 2010 7:37:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,906
Good advise @redondo. Another opinion.
-don't sell shares now as you just take a loss; patience needed
-sell of House A to get 1.8m
-use money to pay for car, education, complete House B

At least you'll have reduced you debt by 30%, acquired your aspirational car and continued living in your house.

If you believe, you can sacrifice more you could also use surplus funds to pay down value of debt on House B/C and eventually decide to move into the cheaper house when complete.
sparkly
#4 Posted : Thursday, January 07, 2010 1:42:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
@titanic, am i missing something, You earn 147k but spend 198k? Impossible.
Life is short. Live passionately.
Evolve
#5 Posted : Thursday, January 07, 2010 2:16:25 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/25/2007
Posts: 96
@ titanic
You are over leveraged. If you managed to throw yourself into all this deep commitment, I am not sure you require any advice how to get out unless there is some info that you are withholding? Your equity in the three properties is about 2.8m which even if you were to sell all, you would not be left with enough funds to purchase any of the units. Your revenue of 147K can not support your outgoings of 198K.
Waria
#6 Posted : Thursday, January 07, 2010 3:16:23 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/11/2007
Posts: 213
@Redondo is spot on. House C has to go. obviously it will cramp your style having to move to House A but looks worth it. The dead shares got to go.( bear still lurkin can always get em back) then pay off house A

Pay for your MBA and get a 500k ride. Both this will boost your esteem & chances of earning higher net though not in the short term. In the medium to long term they can land you a synergetic 'patner' whose income can help you clear the debts faster. ha!

Assuming B is one of those 'suraya-like deals'- then when its complete you should be able to get about 25k rent which you use to make extra payments- or even levearge into another mportgage

Incidentally in Kenya you can get financing on the appreciation?
poundfoolish
#7 Posted : Thursday, January 07, 2010 3:56:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
Nice reads...
Hii sasa ndo kuwazua
Mkimwa
#8 Posted : Thursday, January 07, 2010 4:16:05 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/26/2008
Posts: 380
How did you get 3 mortgages that are > your earnings?

Some credit analyst didnt do their work, or there is something you are not telling,
titanic
#9 Posted : Friday, January 08, 2010 1:45:25 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 1/5/2010
Posts: 10
Location: Nairobi
Radondo & Muganda - Thanks for your insights

Spanky - Forgot to tell you that madam also brings home about 50K, but I do not want to plan for it as she has her own projects also.

Mkimwa - It is possible to get the three mortgages. I did it. All you need is to raise the deposits. For your information, only mortgage C is from a financial institution. Mortgage A is from a Government Agency and Mortgage B from a Co-operative Society. By the way all payments are made outside the check off system
titanic
#10 Posted : Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:25:20 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 1/5/2010
Posts: 10
Location: Nairobi
Thanks all those who gave me your advise. You guys are amazing!. I have finally made up my mind. I have decided to sell House A and House B at 4.2m each. The buyer of House A, as part payment, is selling me a 2 bedroom house at Highrise for 2 m and he will take over the House A mortgage (TPS)from me and pay NSSF direct. I will only add him 200K that I will pay in 4 installments of 50K each. I am also selling House B at 4.2 m. Pay off the mortgage of house B and pay Kshs.1 m towards reducing the mortgage of C. This will reduce my monthly mortgage payment of House C from 70K per month to 56K p.m. I have also decided to moved out of House C and rent it out for 30K as I sort myself out. I have decided to rent a house where I pay 18K rent. The effect of all this is that I will have my own house at Highrise with no loan and I will reduce my monthly mortgage payments from 148K to 56K. Besides, I will also improve my cash flow by 44K. In June or thereabouts, I will look for a plot to buy and begin building my retirement home at my pace. I have also decided to sell the shares (although at a heavy loss) so that I can pay for my MBA and buy the car. Once again Asanteni sana all those who gave me advise.
mozenrat
#11 Posted : Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:16:55 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/18/2008
Posts: 796
Still, @Titanic... I would wanna have a serious talk with you about how you got into all those mortgages. I'm not sure I would mind being in that end of the pool. Sina haraka ya gari ama conveniences. Mind giving us a bit more detail?
mukiha
#12 Posted : Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:46:07 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
titanic wrote:
It is possible to get the three mortgages. I did it. All you need is to raise the deposits. For your information, only mortgage C is from a financial institution. Mortgage A is from a Government Agency and Mortgage B from a Co-operative Society. By the way all payments are made outside the check off system


@titanic:

you tried to beat the system by hiding your loan re-payments so that you get more loans than you can afford....now you are paying for it: you have too much debt.

Even if we add you wife's 50k income; you will have only 197k against 187k expenses....and then you say that she also has her own projects....and the puzzle gets more complicated.

So, start by selling off the "dead stocks" and pump that money into....
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
mukiha
#13 Posted : Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:53:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
.....now, about that MBA: Why do you want to have it? Will it improve your earning potential, and by how much? Or do you just want it for the prestige of adding letters after your name?

depending on how old you are, an MBA may not add anything of value to you---not financially nor educationally [you could go through the whole thing and find out that you did not learn anything new!!]

Think hard about it...it will take you, say, two years to complete the MBA...

If the 500k had gone into one of the mortgages, it would save you 2yrs worth of interest...

That's approx sh161,000 for the NSSF loan.....

And reduce the term considerably...

And then when you have no loans, invest in the MBA if you really feel you NEED it [as opposed to WANT it...
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
mukiha
#14 Posted : Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:56:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
mozenrat wrote:
Still, @Titanic... I would wanna have a serious talk with you about how you got into all those mortgages. I'm not sure I would mind being in that end of the pool. Sina haraka ya gari ama conveniences. Mind giving us a bit more detail?


@mozenrat:

You are not serious, are you? Debt will kill you! Never ever take more than you can afford. Indeed you should only take less than you can afford...then pay back as much as you can afford; thereby reducing the term by a big margin
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
Chaka
#15 Posted : Thursday, January 14, 2010 2:05:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/16/2007
Posts: 2,114
@Titanic,
I think the course you should have enrolled for
is MDM(Masters In Debt Management)i.e if there was such a course.
Now which SACCO is this that gives mortgages?
Is the gava institution NHC or NSSF and is tenant purchase the same thing as a mortgage?
gathinga
#16 Posted : Friday, January 15, 2010 6:03:56 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/30/2006
Posts: 635
Aai @Titanic, you surely outdid yourself. And you want to get into more debt around June this year to build your 'own house'????. It would have made sense to stay off new rojects completely this year, with the exception of the MBA to take stocks. Else going to new projects, after yo have barely sorted out the mess migh show you aint that repentant or have not realized full the mess you are in.

One thing you should have mentioned is how uch you got the various houses for...
titanic
#17 Posted : Friday, January 15, 2010 12:46:14 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 1/5/2010
Posts: 10
Location: Nairobi
@ Mozenrat - The govt institution is the NSSF under their TPS.

@ Chaka - The Sacco is Kuscco, they have a Housing fund and they give home loans five times your savings subject to a maximum of 7 m.

@ Mukiha - I am only 33. I need the MBA to open up my chances. It will improve my earning potential. Want to get into consulting and part time lecturing for additional income.

@ Chaka – there is not difference between Tenant Purchase and Mortgage two different words for the same thing.

@ Githaiga & Mukiha - apparently, I love challenges. I am a very big risk taker and for sure I have gotten good returns
mukiha
#18 Posted : Friday, January 15, 2010 12:58:30 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
titanic wrote:

@ Githaiga & Mukiha - apparently, I love challenges. I am a very big risk taker and for sure I have gotten good returns


@titanic: you don't seem to have made "good returns" this time round. And indeed if you have made good returns in the past, how come you are crumbling under the weight of all this debt?

Sometimes I consider myself to be one of the richest people in the world! This is because I don't owe any debts...not even for power and water - they owe me!

Be careful my friend, you may be claiming to own a lot of property while in reality they belong to your financiers.

Clear your debts first before you get into new projects. You don't need an MBA to be a consultant! Ask me; I am one and I don't have one!
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
Chaka
#19 Posted : Friday, January 15, 2010 1:05:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/16/2007
Posts: 2,114
On the MBA thing,what is the difference between the kawaida MBA and the executive MBA?
Gordon Gekko
#20 Posted : Friday, January 15, 2010 1:55:21 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
@titanic, there is a HUGE difference between Tenant Purchase and Mortgage - it is called Mortgage Relief. With the former, you don't get tax relief on interest paid, in the latter you do, as much as ksh 150,000 a year!!
@chaka, the difference is one is lightweight in terms of content - guess which one
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