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Price controls debate
Magigi
#1 Posted : Thursday, November 26, 2009 6:43:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/31/2008
Posts: 7,081
Location: Kenya
...Engineer Maina's bill,to have the govt. put controls on prces of essential commodities has passed its second reading. If the bill goes thru and becomes law,will it be a good or agood or bad thing? Whereas it will benefit the wanjikus,will it have any negative impact on the economy?
mukiha
#2 Posted : Thursday, November 26, 2009 7:19:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
The choice you have to make is either :

expensive goods that are readily available

OR

Cheap goods that are very hard to find

How quickly we forget the long queues for Unga during the days of price controls....

Either way,'Wanjiku' will not be able to access the essential commodities

Behind the gardens...Behind the wall...Under the tree (Including: Red...Dark Blue...Yellow)
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
Kamaa
#3 Posted : Thursday, November 26, 2009 7:29:00 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/6/2007
Posts: 1,177
Location: Nairobi - Kenya
@ mukiha

at some extent yes but not always (everytime for that matter)...

what about goods which are readily available or with steady supply...?

When you run so fast to get somewhere,you miss the fun of getting there... Life is not a race,so take it slowly....
When you hear what I say, you will not understand. When you see what I do, you will not comprehend
mukiha
#4 Posted : Thursday, November 26, 2009 7:39:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
Price controls are intended to keep prices low....so business people slowly stop stocking commodities that are not giving 'reasonable profits'...eventually,you start having shortages......that was the order of the day all the way up to the early 1990s when libralisation was started.

Behind the gardens...Behind the wall...Under the tree (Including: Red...Dark Blue...Yellow)
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
VituVingiSana
#5 Posted : Thursday, November 26, 2009 7:50:00 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,354
Location: Nairobi
LOL... ephraim is the jamaa behind kirinyaga construction... a scam-filled history... kwani saul has become paul???

As pointed out by mukiha... if the margins are too low... there is NO incentive to increase production... I recall lines for unga,milk & even bread!

Why don't the MPs pass a Bill that limits/freezes their pay? And pay taxes?

Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mukiha
#6 Posted : Thursday, November 26, 2009 8:05:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
...and while at it...why did he include petrol at a time when the Energy Regulatory Commission is in the process of putting price regulation [not control] in that industry? The ERC is negotiating with all parties [importers,refiners,distributors,consumers etc] on the best formula to adopt....

Behind the gardens...Behind the wall...Under the tree (Including: Red...Dark Blue...Yellow)
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
osa
#7 Posted : Thursday, November 26, 2009 3:55:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/26/2006
Posts: 9
The reason we have high basic food prices is because agricultural imports are controlled we want to protect our farmers who still maintain inefficient ways of production. Wheat and corn [maize] is a very cheap commodity in the international market but you need clearance from the agricultural minister and it attracts huge taxes. Open up the market for these commodities and prices will plummet.

Price controls do not work,they lead to scarcity. If they did,communism will be with us today. Look at Cuba; they were every talking to rationing tissue paper the other day. Price control will lead to hoarding and hefty prices with the rich making more profit. If they pass the bill,invest in a Grain Silo!
Ric dees
#8 Posted : Friday, November 27, 2009 7:13:00 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/6/2008
Posts: 632
@ Mukiha & VVS

Am obviously coming from a position of ignorance but why do i detect negativity in your statements. i can't comment on the bottlenecks of the 90's in this regard but surely it's a start and i believe we have grown in stature as a nation since then. I prefer to use the term CAPS as oppose to CONTROL and i believe this is fundamental to our growth as a nation.It's tantalizing to see people pushing for LNG's yet we can't feed ourselves

My question to you gentlemen is what would you rather suggest in the goal ff availing basic commodities to all at an AFFORDABLE rate..or would you rather we go the consumer lobbyists way..

NB: Price of a glass of House wine at the Ritz Carlton is $15 and the same at Deptford in South London (Equivalent of Maringo) is $12 as a result of....
I have participated in the running of Starbucks branch franchise in London trust me price controls are there...

Please refer to my opening statement when answering this.

Success is not measured by what you accomplish,but by the opposition you have encountered and the courage with which you have maintained the struggle against the overwhelming odds'

The greatest danger in times of turbulence is not the turbulence; it is to act with yesterday's logic.
kizee
#9 Posted : Friday, November 27, 2009 7:31:00 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/9/2008
Posts: 537
does the bill clarify what an essential good is or who wanjiku is? i wud preffer if the mover of the bill passed a bill that wud force GoK to remove all taxes on said essential goods..ie levies like road maintainace VAT on fuel ...on elec GoK must also be compelled to drop taxes like VAT and rural electrification levies ...its getting to a point where the line between wanjiku and the middle class is getting eroded...we all need a break..ephraim maina..we are waiting
VituVingiSana
#10 Posted : Friday, November 27, 2009 7:46:00 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,354
Location: Nairobi
@ Ric Dees

When discussing Price Controls (use whatever terminology you want)... there is a HIGH chance of inefficiencies creeping in... Economics...

In a COMPETITIVE environment... prices will 'self-regulate'...
Entities such as KPLC which has a monopoly... could charge what they want & you have little choice... Let's ignore these for now...

In a DUOPOLY or OLIGOPOLY... e.g. Safaricom/Zain & now include Telkom/Yu... caps may be imposed coz of collusion or insufficient competition... Let's ignore these as well for now...

I recall the 'shortages' during the 80s & 90s... Why? The producers had little incentive to produce more... the margins might not justify the investment (say new plant) to produce more... or improve quality (coz they can't charge more)...

Price controls are usually populist & DISTORT the 'market' by pricing the sale price 'too low'... Unless the inputs are also price controlled... the producer could be forced to absorb losses...

This is a complex subject... I will let mukiha take over...

What is an LNG?

What has 'grown in stature as a nation' mean?

'Affordable' is relative & that is a populist argument that 'hides' the true REASONS for 'unaffordability'. These reasons are likely the reason of other 'controls' e.g.


Import controls (wheat,maize,sugar,etc)

High taxes (50% of petrol price is tax/levies/govt-run firms' inefficiencies)
Policy decisions (Budget,Infrastructural deficiencies,free movement)


Bwana... get real... I don't give a flying f*** about $15 glass of wine at the Ritz... I don't even buy $15 bottles of wine! Please use a local (are you in Kenya?) example...


Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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