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System ya majambazi
masukuma
#1 Posted : Tuesday, October 18, 2011 8:05:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPWH5TlbloU
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
YesuWangu
#2 Posted : Wednesday, October 19, 2011 7:55:54 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588

Masukuma, this is good learning for even dummies like me.

Thank you. Thank you.

Applause
Mtu Biz
#3 Posted : Wednesday, October 19, 2011 9:37:23 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/16/2007
Posts: 1,320
Very well put together.

Now back home ....2 questions.

1. Apart from the repayment of IMF/World bank loans, is our shilling free money or debt money?

2. why did the government opt to become a 40% shareholder in the local currency printing company de la rue?

Are we being set up for debt money ?

enter the Kenyan FED ?







Sola Scriptura


dossy7
#4 Posted : Wednesday, October 19, 2011 10:14:04 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 1,491
Location: Nairobi
So i understand why these inflation keeps on rising,just because a few want to be rich n more NKTest
Kenya ni yetu sisi sote
masukuma
#5 Posted : Wednesday, October 19, 2011 12:04:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
its a very revealing video...who is actually in control? by the way...who owns our central bank?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
YesuWangu
#6 Posted : Wednesday, October 19, 2011 1:56:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588

If I got it correctly;


lets say I, Yesuwangu, is a third world country like Kenya, Masukuma is the west and Dossy and Mtu biz are the multinationals like shell, barclays and coca cola.


So, lets say I discover oil etc, like Uganda has. Masukuma, being in love with oil, wants it too.


Masukuma gives me 'loan' to develop these resources e.g. build super highways, ports, terminals etc.


But it only happens that I dont get the cash in my hands. Masukuma gives it to Dossy and Mtu biz who then construct these things for me in my land.


So it appears that there is massive infrastructure development in my land, true, it can be seen. But not all, minority, of my (YW) family members actually benefit. Because its capitalism, stupid!


Yet the entire family is put in debt that they cannot repay.


Masukuma lends me more money to pay back the initial loan. Whats the logic in that, you might ask. I do not know, I just take it. This time, I must make more concessions and akina Dossy and Mtu biz now come in big time. They merge even and swallow up or push aside my familys' cottage industries.


Meanwhile Masukuma has all but got me on a leash and I vote for him in the UN to go to war on the other side of the world. Or at least I dont oppose it. How can I? The loan.


Then because the world is unsafer, due to the war, Masukuma tells me I need a military base on my land.


My family members, tired with me and Masukuma, openly oppose akina Dossy & Mtu biz & the military base. I agree with my family members.



Masukuma, having 'invested' a lot on my land seeks to get rid of me. If I hurt him real bac, he can poison me or if that is not in fashion, he sends in his slaughter squads after me like he did to Saddam and Gadaffi.


Now my family members are alone. So ensure compliance and pliability, Masukuma, through various means, ensures that my family members live in abject poverty. He needs access to the oil and akina Dossy & Mtu biz need market for what they make. Smart move.


But remember Dossy and Mtu biz are still around and in the absence of competition from my family members, they consolidate their market. My family members are now dependent on them for virtually everything. From soda and drinking water, where they store their pittance of shillings to whatever.


Dossy and Mtu biz can afford to threaten the family 'central' bank and devalue the shilling with ease, or hoard the oil and raise pump prices with equal ease. See how much power they flex in our faces with impunity. Damn multinationals.



But maybe Masukuma still thought I was useful to him. So lets say I, Yesuwangu, am still around.


Masukumas' loan still has to be paid back. It has accrued interest. Masukuma says my family cuts public spending in education, etc in order to keep making debt payment.



My family members get upset that I am not doing enough for them, that instead, I send out the little money we have to Masukuma.



They get angry at me and at Masukuma. That is the time the real unpleasantness begins.


My family members take up arms or anything they can get hold of to chase away Dossy & Mtu biz, even me Yesuwangu, from the land.


Lo and behold, 'terrorists' are born. Where are the slaughter squads?




Masukuma rules the world!



Sorry for the long narration. Sorry if I have digressed.


masukuma
#7 Posted : Wednesday, October 19, 2011 2:46:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
http://www.youtube.com/w...yXao&feature=related
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
kyt
#8 Posted : Wednesday, October 19, 2011 4:22:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/7/2007
Posts: 2,182
system ya ubepari, its a rich man eat poor man world.did you know that Africa is a net aid giver to the western countries, the leaders raid the coffers and deposit it in swiss banks, jersey and when we want the money back we have to "prove that the money was stolen" WTF??
LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
masukuma
#9 Posted : Wednesday, October 19, 2011 4:28:30 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
kyt wrote:
system ya ubepari, its a rich man eat poor man world.did you know that Africa is a net aid giver to the western countries, the leaders raid the coffers and deposit it in swiss banks, jersey and when we want the money back we have to "prove that the money was stolen" WTF??

hebu ona story ya external debt - every one owes everyone in Europe!
http://en.wikipedia.org/...untries_by_external_debt
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
dossy7
#10 Posted : Wednesday, October 19, 2011 4:34:59 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 1,491
Location: Nairobi
Yesu Wangu spot on analysis
Kenya ni yetu sisi sote
smano
#11 Posted : Wednesday, October 19, 2011 4:48:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/13/2006
Posts: 2,589
@all, please look for a documentary called Zeitergeist, quite an eye opener and makes you question many things...available at your nearest video store

It's up to you to believe what you will
BEER IS LIVING PROOF THAT GOD LOVES US AND WANTS US TO BE HAPPY!
masukuma
#12 Posted : Wednesday, October 19, 2011 6:18:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
a couple of nice videos on Money masters available as well (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXb-LrVkuwM&feature=youtu.be)
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Nabwire
#13 Posted : Thursday, October 20, 2011 1:21:19 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
This is propaganda, atleast on the part of the American being taken advantage of.The American citizen is the most privileged of all citizens. The video clearly shows that the guy was living in a small house which he could afford, then all of a sudden he moves into a $400,000 house. Who forced him to sign the mortgage? I remember when people would call me crazy for renting yet banks were dishing out mortgasges with no downpayment, regardless of your income. Now these same people have now found themselves in a mess, so now banks are evil. This is a dog eat dog society, banks are at the end of the day a business, people should understand that. Yes, they give you loans in the hope of making more than the principal and interest from you, its called Capitalism. Its greed yes, but at the end of the day, banks do not want you to be foreclosed on, they actually lose when you are foreclosed on. This can be evidenced by the many foreclosed houses that are sitting empty, meaning no one is paying the mortgage and no one is taking care of the house, so banks not only lose out on mortgage and interest payments but the actual value of the house decreases. Banks are thus forced to make shortsales, where they sell a $400k house for say $280k. If more people default and are foreclosed on, it means more realtors are out of work, which means more construction workers and foremen are un/underemployed, which means that less discretionary income is spent on eating out, going to movies etc etc, which further means that unemployment rate increases. Now the construction worker,foreman, McDo employee ( remember no proof of income was required prior to getting a mortgage) can not pay their mortgages, which means more foreclosure and more unemployment. If this is not curtailed, the whole economy collapses and we go into a depression. But Americans, being used to entitlements, start shouting about how banks are evil and this is not fair, forgetting that no one put a gun to their heads to sign the damn mortgage in the first place, why do you need to live in a $400k house yet you get an hourly pay? Victim mentality!
About the Federal Reserve, the cartoon is also misleading, the Fed is not a private bank, its a semi private bank that yes, loans out money to banks but also formulates monetary policy. The same people who are always shouting about end the Fed, are the ones who will shout loudest if inflation soars and all of a sudden we are back in the 80's oil crisis, where people had to queue for hours to buy gas at ridiculous prices. The problem is, these conspiracy theories prey on people's ignorance to further their own agendas. A Macro economics class would suffice to quell all these theories, but most Americans would not be caught dead listening to some boring lecture of how their society works.
Here is an overview of the Federal Reserve, please read through it especially the last paragraph. There is no conspiracy, its just pure Capitalism at work.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Federal_Reserve


kyt wrote:
system ya ubepari, its a rich man eat poor man world.did you know that Africa is a net aid giver to the western countries, the leaders raid the coffers and deposit it in swiss banks, jersey and when we want the money back we have to "prove that the money was stolen" WTF??


You are right when it comes to Africa, definetely Africa is being screwed, read Dambisa Moyo's Dead Aid for more on this.
Nabwire
#14 Posted : Thursday, October 20, 2011 1:34:53 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
By the way the Fed came about during the goldrush when people started panicking that their money was not safe coz the country was going into a depression. There was a major run on the banks where people demanded their money back, but the banks did not have the money since banks dont put money in vaults like most people think, banks are a business whose main goal is to make a profit. When you deposit your money in the bank, banks in turn invest that money to make a profit while paying you a measly interest. So when there was a run on the banks, banks realized that to avoid this from ever happening again, they have to assure people that their money is safe. Thus the Fed and later the FDIC were born, which insures that upto $250k of your money is insured regardless of whether the bank fails. During the Lehman collapse, people started panicking about their money and they had to be reassured over and over about the FDIC insurance of money upto $250k.
Nabwire
#15 Posted : Thursday, October 20, 2011 1:44:19 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
And lastly, the Federal Reserve is independent of the US government in order to avoid corruption and bribery. Imagine if the President could command the Fed to print money so he can be reelected, that is the reasoning behind the Fed being indepedent of the Executive arm though it is answerable to the Congress. Thats why you see Bernanke frequently being called to the Hill to be bored by numerous questions by Congressmen/women, who are just interested in getting reelected.
Nabwire
#16 Posted : Thursday, October 20, 2011 2:25:44 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
Here is someone who actually knows what he is talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/w...?NR=1&v=m_atOvrTtT8

Notice the caller is complaining that she paid a $600 utility bill yet she doesnt even make $10/hour. How about you turn off that AC, (drink cold water instead), lower your heating bill ( use extra blankets instead), sell off those 3 plasma tvs ( its still the same show on a regular tv), sell off your extra cars, dump the SUV, use public transportation, stop eating out, stop going to watch movies that repeat the same theme, only different actors, cut off the cable and most important go to the Library and pick up a book! It must suck to be an elected official when most of your constituents suffer from acute victim mentality!
masukuma
#17 Posted : Thursday, October 20, 2011 6:41:43 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
Nabwire wrote:
By the way the Fed came about during the goldrush when people started panicking that their money was not safe coz the country was going into a depression. There was a major run on the banks where people demanded their money back, but the banks did not have the money since banks dont put money in vaults like most people think, banks are a business whose main goal is to make a profit. When you deposit your money in the bank, banks in turn invest that money to make a profit while paying you a measly interest. So when there was a run on the banks, banks realized that to avoid this from ever happening again, they have to assure people that their money is safe. Thus the Fed and later the FDIC were born, which insures that upto $250k of your money is insured regardless of whether the bank fails. During the Lehman collapse, people started panicking about their money and they had to be reassured over and over about the FDIC insurance of money upto $250k.

this is the demon of fractional reserve lending - ask yourself, could you do it? if you did it would have a tag called 'ponzi' written all over it, creating money from nothing then lending it to government, charging interest on it is what is being analysed. if the Fed is a semi-public institution, why has it not been audited? why are its other owners a tightly guarded secret?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Nabwire
#18 Posted : Friday, October 21, 2011 9:48:39 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
I'm not really sure what you are alluding to, fractional reserve aka reserve ratio is the amount of money a bank has to have on hand, remember in the spirit of capitalism banks would love to invest all the deposited money, but the Federal reserve polices banks to ensure that a certain amount is on hand. In this respect, The Fed is actually acting in the best interest of the people. Fractional reserve has nothing to do with creating money, the Treasury is in charge of that. You are right about being accused of creating a ponzi scheme, banks do have a monopoly on money in the US. Dont quote me, but I am pretty sure it is illegal to have a chama in the US, especially those merry go round chamas. The irony is chamas are fluorishing in Kenya and making people more financially independent. About the reason why the Fed has not been audited, I'd have to dig into my books, im not an Economics major so maybe an Econ major can answer, but im sure there is a good reason. I do know though from my Econ professor that it is next to impossible to step into a Federal Reserve building, he tried to get a job thereand despite his very high qualifications has never heard back from them. But if you think objectively about, these are a bunch of filthy rich people who put up their own money ( J.P Morgan was the first one to put up his own money to avoid a collapse of the banking system), in this regard they invested and i'm sure they expected returns. If I had put upalot of my money when no one else would, I wouldnt want to be questioned about what/how I am using my money either. At an individual level, the Federal Reserve has no negative impact, if anything it helps the common mwananchi.
YesuWangu
#19 Posted : Saturday, October 22, 2011 8:46:22 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588
Quote:
The video clearly shows that the guy was living in a small house which he could afford, then all of a sudden he moves into a $400,000 house. Who forced him to sign the mortgage?

This is what is could call fraud. Seeking money through false pretenses. A visualisation is blown up that you can get what you wanted in contrast to the fine print? You do know about the fine print and the jargon therein? The person in / with power should notify the person who is none the wiser. Isnt it decent to do that? Isnt it evil not to do that?

Quote:
banks are at the end of the day a business, people should understand that. Yes, they give you loans in the hope of making more than the principal and interest from you, its called Capitalism. Its greed yes, but at the end of the day, banks do not want you to be foreclosed on, they actually lose when you are foreclosed on


Nabwire, I know you know your stuff. I also know you do know that wealth is not destroyed. It merely gets transferred from one person to another. You do know that, dont you?

That foreclosed property is not destroyed, merely frozen. It will be revived and activated later an opportune time. As you said, at the end of the day it is a business, with profit in mind. They are not a social or charity club. The more profits, hey, the better. The occassional crocodile tear is great PR.

Quote:

About the reason why the Fed has not been audited, I'd have to dig into my books, im not an Economics major so maybe an Econ major can answer, but im sure there is a good reason.


Like what? Does anyone on this planet know the reason?
Nabwire
#20 Posted : Sunday, October 23, 2011 11:34:49 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
There is no fraud there nor fine print. It was clear that you are moving from a small house to a big one, at some point it must have occured to you that more money would be needed. It doesnt make sense to move from a small to big house without expecting there to be an increase in payment. You cant call that fraud coz then no business person would ever be able to turn a profit. If you buy eggs at kshs 20 and sell them at kshs30, should you inform your buyer of the profit you are about to make off of them? With your reasoning, its evil not to tell them. Please lets stop the hypocrisy, you see the greed on the part of the bank but dont see the gred on the part of the homeowner. He/she got that home based on greed so he can show it off to his friends, host alot of parties and be the envy of everyone, now that he is being foreclosed on, he conveniently plays the victim.
Wealth may not be destroyed as you say but in this case the banks lost alot of money. Imagine a house sitting empty for months, weeds growing everywhere, rodents invading the house and to make matters worse, squatters move in so the bank has to follow legal/ expensive steps to kick them out. The bank is a victim too if you want to play that game.
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