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Capital Gains Tax - What if it is reintroduced?
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/2/2008 Posts: 1,438
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There has been discussion of this in various fora. Given the big hole between expected Goverment revenues and increasing expenditure, some pundits have actually been advocating for its return. Assuming that Uhuru goes for it tomorrow or at some point in the future, what do you guys think will be its impact?
I for one think it will kill off an already struggling stock market. On the other hand, it might just manage to tame the runaway surge in property prices. Or will it?
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Rank: Chief Joined: 8/4/2010 Posts: 8,977
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Would one rather introduce such measures during a slump or a boom? $15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/2/2008 Posts: 1,438
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hisah wrote:Would one rather introduce such measures during a slump or a boom? I would expect it during a boom. Note that I am certainly not for it, either now or later. But for argument's sake, it appears like G.o.K may be running out of wiggle room. Just how much debt can they keep piling on?
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Rank: Chief Joined: 8/4/2010 Posts: 8,977
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mwanahisa wrote:hisah wrote:Would one rather introduce such measures during a slump or a boom? I would expect it during a boom. Note that I am certainly not for it, either now or later. But for argument's sake, it appears like G.o.K may be running out of wiggle room. Just how much debt can they keep piling on? This is why I'm afraid the gubberment will make the wrong move out of desperation to raise funds.
Capital gain tax with the current NSE mood will just increase the selling momentum. As for real estate I think this should be fair. Infact they could introduce capital gains targeting particular investments for the time being. It is not a good choice, but it gives them some room to move around.$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/21/2010 Posts: 6,191 Location: nairobi
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This is the easiest way to chase away a good bunch of foreigh investors. "Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/10/2010 Posts: 1,001 Location: River Road
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it will kill speculation and reduce turnover at the nse it will be a game-changer, it might spark off a short term selling spree. Actually capital gains is must easier to administer at the nse than on property. for property it will go back to the old practice of putting paper price for land transactions and the real value exchanged later.
in 2006 the MPs rejected Kimunya attempt to re-introduce it(stocks were exempt) as it affected their substantial property holding but this time round with kenyans going to the streets over unga, shrinking government revenues, a costly constitution this looks it might pass
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/21/2006 Posts: 1,590
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The rationale for a tax on capital gains has always escaped me. This is especially so in a country like ours which has a serious lack of investment avenues. Since Uhuru et al cannot bring themselves to do the following which actually makes sense but will also reduce the likely deficit: 1. Reduce recurrent expenditure by moving to the 24 member cabinet; reducing defence spending or alternatively widening the mandate the army’s mandate to include border defence. 2. Widen the tax population to include all GoK members that currently don’t pay tax. Removing tax relief for newly listed companies (it doesn’t make sense, if you are going to list you are going o list regardless of the tax relief) Let cgt be aimed at speculative investments. Those buying property, shares et al for a quick buck should be taxed because this is a non-value adding activity. Speculative investment can be defined as any buying and selling done within 12 or 18 months. Sehemu ndio nyumba
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/21/2010 Posts: 6,191 Location: nairobi
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Speculation creates liquidity which is very good in any market,otherwise its only the rich who can afford locking huge chunks of money for more than a year.i fear the small investors might just quit the nse. "Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/25/2010 Posts: 158
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Mainat wrote:The rationale for a tax on capital gains has always escaped me. This is especially so in a country like ours which has a serious lack of investment avenues. Since Uhuru et al cannot bring themselves to do the following which actually makes sense but will also reduce the likely deficit: 1. Reduce recurrent expenditure by moving to the 24 member cabinet; reducing defence spending or alternatively widening the mandate the army’s mandate to include border defence. 2. Widen the tax population to include all GoK members that currently don’t pay tax. Removing tax relief for newly listed companies (it doesn’t make sense, if you are going to list you are going o list regardless of the tax relief) Let cgt be aimed at speculative investments. Those buying property, shares et al for a quick buck should be taxed because this is a non-value adding activity. Speculative investment can be defined as any buying and selling done within 12 or 18 months.
I dont agree with Mainat on this. It looks like each time the government needs to raise money only the salaried must be taxed to raise it. We known there is alot of money in real estate and the government needs to move in this arena and harverst from these money makers. Capital gain on real estate should be made compulsory, any person who cheats on the sale price for their property should be arrested and charged for corruption and other malpractices. We should have a law on this and parliament should put the interest of the country at heart, not just the benefits for the members who are the main owners of all the properties we are seeing around. This will reduce corruption as people will be forced to pay tax on real estates and it will bring down the cost of these properties....i dont know if i am making any economic argument here...but thats what i think Keeping it all in the family
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2008 Posts: 345
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Such a move would probably work in the NSE,but end up killing local investors interest, in the stock market, which was the ultimate aim of the government, but not the property market like land or houses. This is simply because of demand and supply. There are too many people with pent up demand and land and buildings /houses are in very short supply. This would mean that the buyers would simply avoid the tax by adding it on top of the property prices. This would in effect make the property prices unaffordable, making nonsense of the government efforts of making housing affordable and with the current housing crisis, your guess is as good as mine as to what the majority of Kenyans would be able to afford.....
My take. No capital gains tax in Kenya for the foreseeable future.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/21/2006 Posts: 608 Location: Ruiru
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Capital Gain Tax would be ill advised in a country still trying to spur investments. It may help curb speculative practices in real estate but that is not the way to go. Real estate itself is ever on deficit. For NSE it is just wrong and will reduce day-to-day volumes. I go with mkonomtupu widen the tax base and lets all share the 1 trillion budget "..I am because we are. "― Ubuntu, Umtu,
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Rank: Chief Joined: 3/24/2010 Posts: 6,779 Location: Black Africa
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/17/2009 Posts: 194
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Kenyan politicians are allergic to anything that can hurt their interests. So I betcha that thing aint coming soon. At least not until ODM comes to power as they have not had too much time to accumulate large holdings.
Beisdes, The son of Ngina has to protect his family interests....
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/4/2008 Posts: 205 Location: Nairobi
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Iborian wrote:Kenyan politicians are allergic to anything that can hurt their interests. So I betcha that thing aint coming soon. At least not until ODM comes to power as they have not had too much time to accumulate large holdings.
Besides, The son of Ngina has to protect his family interests....  Very true Iborian. What it comes down to is this...are Kenyan Mpigs willing to stand more taxes that affect them personally in form of paying income tax or capital gain tax? They will pull deals, block the budget and hold Gova to ransom on the constitution to block any taxation! "When the pupil is ready to learn, a teacher will appear." -- Zen proverb
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,330 Location: Masada
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Never for our young NSE.Is this thing practised in established markets like SA,NYSE or HongKong? Portfolio: Sold You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/16/2009 Posts: 1,464
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Okay let me put it this way, in which country is the CGT being levied, on which particular capital transactions and how has is it going/working? Is there a good story about CGT for any economy thus far?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/25/2009 Posts: 4,534 Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
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Pierce wrote:Okay let me put it this way, in which country is the CGT being levied, on which particular capital transactions and how has is it going/working? Is there a good story about CGT for any economy thus far? SA GGT for individuals is 25% and for Companies 50%
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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Pierce wrote:Okay let me put it this way, in which country is the CGT being levied, on which particular capital transactions and how has is it going/working? Is there a good story about CGT for any economy thus far? It is charged just next door in uganda... Most developed matkets also charge... Mark 12:29 Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/25/2009 Posts: 4,534 Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
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This thing will be good for companies like Centum
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/4/2008 Posts: 205 Location: Nairobi
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All this debate makes me realise why Republicans are passionate about using tax cuts to stimulate business. My two cents, don't introduce this measure now. The economy hangs on a precipice, any hasty move may swing us into recession. "When the pupil is ready to learn, a teacher will appear." -- Zen proverb
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