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ANTIBIOTICS
ocampo
#1 Posted : Thursday, March 03, 2011 5:51:12 PM
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Joined: 8/11/2009
Posts: 123

Has it become a standard procedure nowadays that when you take kids to hospital, they must be given antibiotics? Shame on you

My concern is one; most of the antibiotics prescribed are first line drugs. What will happen if the bacteria develops resistance to them? Sad
Lets not be vague, we go to hague
Foreman
#2 Posted : Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:37:21 PM
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Joined: 11/18/2010
Posts: 194
Location: Kenya
Your concerns are valid.
I was discharged from hospital today (after 3 days in)& I was not responding to some of the antibiotics so they had to change doses b4 I could get well....the bill shot up two-fold.

My approach from now is 'understand the Hospital and the Doctor first'
Collect me if I am wrong but I think prescriptions should only come from medical doctors and not nurses, laboratory technicians or clinical officers
Burning Spear
#3 Posted : Friday, March 04, 2011 10:55:18 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 1,139
Foreman wrote:
Your concerns are valid.
I was discharged from hospital today (after 3 days in)& I was not responding to some of the antibiotics so they had to change doses b4 I could get well....the bill shot up two-fold.

My approach from now is 'understand the Hospital and the Doctor first'
Collect me if I am wrong but I think prescriptions should only come from medical doctors and not nurses, laboratory technicians or clinical officers



While I do agree that antibiotics resistant has become a common nightmare nowadays,everyone takes a blame not only the medical professionals.

When you get that antibiotic regimen,many people do not complete the dosage and by this you give the bacterias more energy to fight and they evolve/mutate and may form a calcium layer which is very hard to penetrate by drugs eg the MDR or XDR cases in mycobacterium tuberclosis.
Also,patients have become a know it all people,I have seen on many occassions where the patient telling the doctor to give an antibiotic even when cases that do not require .eg 70% of homa/flu is viral and do not require antibiotics but everytime the patient go to the hospital,they request antibiotics.With some doctors especially in govt hospitals and some high cost hospitals eg Getrude,Nairobi,Agakhan,the GPs will give you what you want and leave but not spcialists
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it". Malcolm X
bwenyenye
#4 Posted : Friday, March 04, 2011 11:38:08 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1,805
I have also noticed that nowadays, everytime one visits a hospital, lazima nitoke na three (3) drugs irrespective of the ailment. Why three, why not one or four? I tend to think that the new kids on the medical block have and especially in middle class hospitals i.e Getrudes, Nairobi Hosi, AgaKhan etc seem to have very minimal exposure to various ailmets and have inardvaertently been turned into sales reps for major drug companies. Gone are the days when you would take you kid to Gertrudes and the doctor would be more concerned with talking to the kid than listening to the mother. Not that they did not listen to the mother, just that they knew who they were treating. Many a time, they would send the parents out and take time with the kid. By the time he called you in, he knew something about the kid you did not know or had not told him about. Interetsingly, hardly did they give you more than one drug but would then give you a lecture on how to feed and take care of your kid. The would even give you a feeding program

I remember one who was like that called Dr Muasya or something who had been the country's head paedetrician before retiring to his practice on Kenya Re towers in town. Unfortunately I heard he passed on but he had a daughter who followed his footsteps. I hope she does not let her father down!
I Think Therefore I Am
wanjirus
#5 Posted : Friday, March 04, 2011 1:21:42 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/4/2009
Posts: 37
I can't agree more on the malpractices of this hospitals that we trust, on Tuesday my girlfriend went to aga khan Kisumu with backache and a headache, her blood sample was drawn and sent to the lab, a mammogram was conducted on her and some medication prescribed, when she came home, the prescription was reading eso kit(H pylori kit) and paracetamol. She didn't buy the drugs coz I had given her 2500, tell me had she had enough money for the drugs, the hospital visit would have cost her Ksh4600 and a wrong diagnosis, as much as I am not a doctor I think you test for the bacteria from a stool sample.

Worse still this is the only big hospital or rather preferred in Nyanza and Western, how many people have been misdiagnosed? again from my colleagues, I don't know if to them there is an H pylori epidemic but rarely do they miss the kit in their prescriptions.
Shak
#6 Posted : Friday, March 04, 2011 3:15:15 PM
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Joined: 2/22/2009
Posts: 2,449
Location: Africa
@ burning spear, allow me to deviate a bit. My 18 month old daughter was put on antibiotics for a throat infection. However after giving her the second dose she vomitted around half an hour later. Should the dose be repeated or was the half hour enough for her to absorb the drug?
Burning Spear
#7 Posted : Thursday, March 10, 2011 10:09:12 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 1,139
Shak wrote:
@ burning spear, allow me to deviate a bit. My 18 month old daughter was put on antibiotics for a throat infection. However after giving her the second dose she vomitted around half an hour later. Should the dose be repeated or was the half hour enough for her to absorb the drug?


Sorry for late reply.
I wish you cud have named the antibiotic in question but nevertheless,most antibiotics when taken orally have absorption onset of from 20 minutes from the GIT and reach plasma levels with varying degrees thats why they are those taken twice daily,thrice,four times etc.

It would be wrong for me to give a blanket answer since you did not name the exact antibiotic or details such as frequency of administration.

But my advice is do not give another if 3o minutes had elapsed.
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it". Malcolm X
famooz
#8 Posted : Thursday, March 10, 2011 5:13:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/19/2007
Posts: 2,047
Foreman wrote:
Your concerns are valid.
I was discharged from hospital today (after 3 days in)& I was not responding to some of the antibiotics so they had to change doses b4 I could get well....the bill shot up two-fold.

My approach from now is 'understand the Hospital and the Doctor first'
Collect me if I am wrong but I think prescriptions should only come from medical doctors and not nurses, laboratory technicians or clinical officers



Yeah i will correct you:) contrary to popular opinion,Nurses can treat some ailments better than doctors,so do not go for titles that much. Ofcourse a lab tech has no business writing a prescription- that is not their field and a clinical officer is well qualified to treat people,even without the guidance of a doctor. I have seen some very very good clinical officers,better than Doctors.

Euge
#9 Posted : Thursday, March 10, 2011 6:20:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/4/2008
Posts: 2,849
Location: Rupi
ocampo wrote:

Has it become a standard procedure nowadays that when you take kids to hospital, they must be given antibiotics? Shame on you

My concern is one; most of the antibiotics prescribed are first line drugs. What will happen if the bacteria develops resistance to them? Sad


@ Ocampo first tell us what the Rome statute says about antibioticsLaughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly smile smile smile
Lord, thank you!
Prime
#10 Posted : Thursday, March 10, 2011 9:20:32 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/27/2011
Posts: 518
famooz wrote:
Foreman wrote:
Your concerns are valid.
I was discharged from hospital today (after 3 days in)& I was not responding to some of the antibiotics so they had to change doses b4 I could get well....the bill shot up two-fold.

My approach from now is 'understand the Hospital and the Doctor first'
Collect me if I am wrong but I think prescriptions should only come from medical doctors and not nurses, laboratory technicians or clinical officers



Yeah i will correct you:) contrary to popular opinion,Nurses can treat some ailments better than doctors,so do not go for titles that much. Ofcourse a lab tech has no business writing a prescription- that is not their field and a clinical officer is well qualified to treat people,even without the guidance of a doctor. I have seen some very very good clinical officers,better than Doctors.


What famooz says is quite true. Nurses, lab techs, clinical officers all have a role to play. They all need each other. Few can afford the services of doctors especially mwananchi Wa kawaida. And especially from their private clinics. Would make sense to see a nurse or clinical officer and if it is a complicated case then they should refer you to a Doc for specialized attention. Lab techs shouldn't prescribe but they play a very crucial role in guidance in treatment.
In the event of a bacterial infection that can be isolated in a culture, they are the ones who are in a better position to recommend what drugs are most effective but the best among those is determined by clinicians who have the patients history and overall condition. And the most expensive drugs can also be resistant while those cheap old school ones end up being highly sensitive hence best. They just reduce guesswork on the clinicians part.
As for Helicobacter pylori... More than half the worlds population have it. And majority are asymptomatic. The bacteria slowly erodes the stomach lining mucus. So a lab test might give a positive result in the absence of symptoms. Once the lining is eroded then the digestive juices (hcl in the stomach) begin digesting the stomach as nyama ni protein pia. Then the symptoms become noticeable. Ulcers. The bacteria can be detected in stool (antigen) or blood (antibody). My 2 cents.
Mwende
#11 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2011 9:45:27 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/29/2009
Posts: 217
I thinks its become a commercial business for these hospitals on medications some of them which don’t even work, so you have to go back 3-5 times before they finally give you ‘correct’ dawa…ABK

My daughter was teething & 1st thing Getrudes in lavington wanted to give was put drips even before any diagnose (there was no any sign of dehydration) I said NO, they take some test kwanza or try the ORS solution. Actually I don’t even know what I was doing there cos I ended up telling the old DOC what to do & I went home with antibiotics & paracetamol…
People are more informed nowadays and can’t rely on the doc…is it due to watching too much Greys Anatomy & Dr. House?

They are even unable to treat my pal who has post-herpes (non- genital) itch for the last 2 months…any doc in the house?
...hold me in your arms, like that Spanish guitar… all night long!!!
Burning Spear
#12 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2011 2:18:26 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 1,139
Mwende wrote:
I thinks its become a commercial business for these hospitals on medications some of them which don’t even work, so you have to go back 3-5 times before they finally give you ‘correct’ dawa…ABK

My daughter was teething & 1st thing Getrudes in lavington wanted to give was put drips even before any diagnose (there was no any sign of dehydration) I said NO, they take some test kwanza or try the ORS solution. Actually I don’t even know what I was doing there cos I ended up telling the old DOC what to do & I went home with antibiotics & paracetamol…
People are more informed nowadays and can’t rely on the doc…is it due to watching too much Greys Anatomy & Dr. House?

They are even unable to treat my pal who has post-herpes (non- genital) itch for the last 2 months…any doc in the house?



First,it would be important if you told us what kind of herpes or where are they localized.
Is it herpes zoster (kwa lips) or does it involve other visceral organs and multiple dermatones (disseminated zosters)like the abdomen.

Without that kind of information,it would be wrong for us to rush into the conclusion.
Kindly furnish us with more details.
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it". Malcolm X
winston
#13 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2011 3:11:11 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/14/2010
Posts: 806
Location: Nairobi
Good topic. what are the long term effects of prolonged use of antibiotics?
mlefu
#14 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2011 3:58:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/11/2007
Posts: 1,680
Location: nairobi
interesting...which are the common symptoms of alcers..
McReggae
#15 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2011 4:11:46 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
mlefu wrote:
interesting...which are the common symptoms of alcers..



.....did you mean ulcers???
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
bwenyenye
#16 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2011 4:12:30 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1,805
mlefu wrote:
interesting...which are the common symptoms of alcers..


stress!!!!Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly it is a cause and symtom!
I Think Therefore I Am
Prime
#17 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2011 8:16:13 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/27/2011
Posts: 518
mlefu wrote:
interesting...which are the common symptoms of alcers..

@mlefu... In reflection, I first got the symptoms almost 4 years ago and tested positive but did 2 years before the symptoms started getting worse. The early symptoms involve feeling some very dull polite pain midway between the chest and navel. It always got worse around lunch hour before feeding. Felt like burning tho not in a painful way. Just hot inside. Any time my stomach was empty I would feel gas forming and a bloated feeling. The wind passed around that time was plain pungent. Strangely, I would feel ok after feeding. Zero noise in my stomach! Till hunger set in again. Would even feel some nausea. I think the symptoms vary with people.
My suggestion. If you get those stomach issues persistently and you have been under amoebiasis and typhoid antibiotics without longlasting relief then it might be wise to take the test. To eliminate the possibility of typhoid take a test called salmonella antigen test instead of widal or do a stool culture which would also detect dysentry (shigella) apart from typhoid (salmonella).
Stress or eating spicy food may not cause ulcers. But they will agrevate the symptoms. Smoking, pinting and caffeine don't go well with ulcers. Persistent dark or blackish stool may be a pointer to bleeding in the gastro intestinal system. A doc may request for an occult stool test to check for the presence of blood which is not visible to the naked eye. Then take it from there. As a shocker... Persistent and longterm use of asprin and ibuprofen have also been implicated in causing ulcers. Now. Did I read somewhere that untreated gastric and peptic ulcers may lead to stomach cancer? Food for thought.
Prime
#18 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2011 8:59:42 PM
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Joined: 2/27/2011
Posts: 518
winston wrote:
Good topic. what are the long term effects of prolonged use of antibiotics?

Prolonged use encourages resistance. The bacteria strains mutate and the same antibiotics that were good a while ago are no longer able to kill the bacteria. They just kill the weaker strains and the Stronger ones are the ones that get to multiply, necessitating stronger newer antibiotics that are more expensive and many a times toxic hence given under strict supervision of a doctor.
Overuse of antibiotics also results in the killing of good bacteria which may secrete substances that keep bad bacteria and fungi in check. Upsetting that delicate balance may worsen the situation.
Not completing a dose may make things worse because only the weak strains are killed and the strong ones get to multiply unhindered. That is why one should finish the dose even after feeling better.
Shak
#19 Posted : Friday, March 11, 2011 11:33:27 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/22/2009
Posts: 2,449
Location: Africa
@burning spear, thanks for that. Maybe we should start a 'dear doctor' column where we wananchi put in all our medical queries for pple in the medical field like you. My daughter was on an antibiotic syrup called zinnat. She kept the drug down for half an hour then vomitted. I repeated the dose since the vomit showed traces of the medicine
mlefu
#20 Posted : Saturday, March 12, 2011 12:00:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/11/2007
Posts: 1,680
Location: nairobi
thanks prime.

pain below the navelThink , i get that every-time i anticipate a "landing" but one or two things make it impossibled'oh! ,lasts for a few hours making it painful engaging any muscle near those organs.... leads to stress making me fear that i have ulcers..right or wrong.
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