kiimwana...

so then we agree that:

1-the church could voice its opinion on why it does not like the draft and suggest to you to vote no because in any case, the vote was by secret ballot and you can vote as you wish. i am sure that's not rocket science to the super intelligent masses of literate kenyans.

2-that neither the entire clergy nor all voters or politicians in the no camp were necessarily lying when interpreting the constitution.

Tell you what @Brewer, that is exactly where the challenge comes in at times. The church that i am in has some strict and rigid doctrines. In fact, in my opinion, the most flawed clause in this constitution that we passed and that originated from the catholic doctrine is that life begins at conception. That clause, if followed strictly renders most of the family planning methods "illegal" and according to the catholic church, these family planning cause 'abortion' - which in itself is illegal. And which, i am not sure how other Christians (other than Catholics - and just some of them) would react to it given that we cant reproduce like uncontrollably for obvious reasons. If we are to follow this way of thinking, i do not know how the law will enforce this or determine that someone is actually going against the law. That does not mean that the church is wrong, just hat it sometimes is impractical in some circumstances. i hope we shall find a way, somehow, of dealing with some of these issues.

God is almighty and well able to fight for himself. He does not have to keep proving himself to us over and over, He is God and he knows it.

The clergy did all the best they could, i salute them. Where they over reacted they did come out and apologized and they remain God's chosen vessels. For now lets thank God for a safe referendum and ponder how to proceed with the new constitution. We are all Kenya's and we are all winners.

Even with this outcome, On the overall, I strongly believe that the church has made her point and therefore cannot be ignored that easily given that she has gannered over 2million votes! Those are over 2M Kenyans and they need not to be ignored.

@Pastor M
The church was a let down to me because of behaving like politicians in 2007;fabricating lies and misinterpretating certain parts of the constitution and asking the voters to vote no. Like I said before and I maintain this, they should have highlighted their issues of concern and and left the people to make their choice without influence. Get my point? The 2million people should have been left to free choice.

msakhulu, you are digging yourself deeper in your attempt to get out of a hole.

a)so according to you, the 2.6M were forced while the 5.8M were 'left' to make their choice? care to share the scientific methodology you used to arrive at that conclusion?

b)was the church a let down because they did not endorse your opinion?

c)what specific lies are you referring to and which specific church or church leader are you talking about? what proportion (%) of the clergy have you calculated peddled these lies?

@Wendz
You said it! I fully agree.

regardless of the vote, i dont think discussing the vote is taboo now is it?

if someone posts something, they should not be shocked when someone responds to the contrary.

it is the beauty of independent thought - and free speech too if i may hasten to add.

but feel free to move to the next thread.

Wazua..... Arent we able to delete what we have posted anymore?

a good attempt ma'am but not sure you understand what the terms 'irony' and 'feel free' means.

reason - you expressed your thoughts that discussion of the vote on this thread needs to end hence my gentlemanly invite to you to feel free to leave if you are not happy with the conversation.

of course you can stay my dear - it is your right under the old or new constitution...