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cash-for-prayers
Pastor M
#21 Posted : Thursday, July 29, 2010 4:10:23 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/18/2009
Posts: 303
@Mtu Biz...Thanks brother you have highlighted the real purpose of the church It is about
mans condition - A sinner.
Gods provision - Jesus
Mans responce - Repentance or Rebellion
and the coming Judgment.

And anyone feeling its worthy giving to the above cause GIVE...THE CHURCH NEEDS YOUR GIVING TO REACH THE POOR (PHYSICALLY) AND SPIRITUALLY.
conos
#22 Posted : Thursday, July 29, 2010 4:28:22 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/30/2010
Posts: 241
Applause this are the kind of issues the church should conduct civic education on instead of opposing the pnc.
ukiona choo kwa ndoto usiingie, ni mtego!
Pastor M
#23 Posted : Thursday, July 29, 2010 4:33:12 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/18/2009
Posts: 303
Wendz wrote:
@Pastor M

There is this concept of "planting a seed" in these new churches. We are told that the more you 'plant' the more you plant the more your blessings - not the 'old time religion' that we grew up in. Where is it based in the Bible? That bit i have not understood.


@Wendz this is the same as giving tithe,all these are ways of raising money.
Maybe its from Ecclesiastes 11:6 In the morning sow your seed, and at evening withhold not your hand, for you do not know which will prosper, this or that, or whether both alike will be good.
Personally I give with this in my mind;
* I give out of a desire to give, and not out of a desire to receive.
* I give out of faith and trust, instead of out of worry, fear and lack.
* I give out of love for self and others, instead of out of guilt.
* I give out of desire, instead of out of obligation.

And God in his own way gives me PEACE.As I work in the services of God,my family,My career,Man and Church ministry.



Wendz
#24 Posted : Thursday, July 29, 2010 4:51:31 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
Thanks @Pastor M.
I will read that to understand more.
Mwafrika31
#25 Posted : Thursday, July 29, 2010 7:30:07 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 95
youcan'tstopusnow wrote:
What that lady did was 'ujinga'. The only way we can get rid of such problems is education, so that people know the world for what it is.


@youcan'tstopusnow

Your cynical and nihilistic attitude cannot go unchallenged. Who are you to mock the lady? I too, a long time ago had a hopeless life, no job, no prospects....nothing except an unyielding faith in God. One day at Uhuru park, a 'millionaire' preacher said that if I made a faith gift, God would help me. My brain said no, my heart said yes. I gave the money and immediately felt silly. Today I'm earning more than I could have thought to even think possible for someone like me. Is it a coincidence?? I don't think so. Truth is often stranger than fiction.
kadonye
#26 Posted : Thursday, July 29, 2010 9:16:30 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/30/2009
Posts: 1,390
Nice twist to this thread.mtu biz i'll look up scripture to see how to place arguments.Let's give but let us not forget that Jesus while watching worshippers give did not look at WHAT they gave but HOW they gave
What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
Mtu Biz
#27 Posted : Sunday, August 08, 2010 1:00:27 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/16/2007
Posts: 1,320
Pastor M wrote:
@Mtu Biz...Thanks brother you have highlighted the real purpose of the church It is about
mans condition - A sinner.
Gods provision - Jesus
Mans responce - Repentance or Rebellion
and the coming Judgment.

And anyone feeling its worthy giving to the above cause GIVE...THE CHURCH NEEDS YOUR GIVING TO REACH THE POOR (PHYSICALLY) AND SPIRITUALLY.



Pastor

First,iam dissatisfied with your answer above, i raised some serious issues with your point of view in my previous post and you have not defended your and the church position on tithing at all!

Second. to say "THE CHURCH NEEDS YOUR GIVING TO REACH THE POOR (PHYSICALLY) AND SPIRITUALLY"
is wholly unrtue.

The person who needs to give to the needy is the individual, you and me.
Jesus always commended the person who showed mercy and compassion to his fellow man direcly... not via some organization.

In the words of Him who is True, "In that day you will ask me... when did we see you hungry and fed you?... when were you in prison and we visited you?...when were you sick and we took care of you... he will answer in as much as you did this to the LEAST of MY BROTHERS, you did it to me..."(my paraphrase)

How? Direcly not through XYZ ministries so that some individuals get empoyment!

Finally
If you take your tithe to church and are not comassionate towards your needy relative with a medical bill then you are a neo pharisee.

Sola Scriptura


Pastor M
#28 Posted : Tuesday, August 17, 2010 4:57:48 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/18/2009
Posts: 303
@Mtu Biz Even if you give directly to the poor or through the church that is your faith and nobody will ever ask you how,where or who you gave...but the most important thing to understand is
* Give out of a desire to give, and not out of a desire to receive.
* Give out of faith and trust, instead of out of worry, fear and lack.
* Give out of love for God,self and others, instead of out of guilt.
* Give out of desire, instead of out of obligation.
Mtu Biz
#29 Posted : Wednesday, August 18, 2010 11:48:52 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/16/2007
Posts: 1,320
Pastor M wrote:
@Mtu Biz Even if you give directly to the poor or through the church that is your faith and nobody will ever ask you how,where or who you gave...but the most important thing to understand is
* Give out of a desire to give, and not out of a desire to receive.
* Give out of faith and trust, instead of out of worry, fear and lack.
* Give out of love for God,self and others, instead of out of guilt.
* Give out of desire, instead of out of obligation.



Pastor.

I concur.

Though i my experience and in that of others the standard 'giving' message in the church always end up at Tithing which is taught as a christian obligation.

This is what i wanted your response on. Kama pastor .... do you teach obligatory christian tithing to your flock ?



Sola Scriptura


bwenyenye
#30 Posted : Wednesday, August 18, 2010 1:28:50 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1,805
@Pastor M
It is good that you are in this forum and answering us.It takes guts I know. Let me out my question this way,

Do I need to pay my tithe through the church? Is this a biblical requirement? Can I sponsor poor kids or a family?
I Think Therefore I Am
Ja-Kom
#31 Posted : Wednesday, August 18, 2010 1:41:15 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/28/2009
Posts: 290
Tithing is an Old Testament concept. The tithe was a requirement of the law in which all Israelites were to give 10 percent of everything they earned and grew to the Tabernacle/Temple -Leviticus 27:30;Numbers 18:26; Deuteronomy 14:24; 2 Chronicles 31:5.
Many Christians struggle with the issue of tithing. In some churches tithing is over-emphasized. At the same time, many Christians refuse to submit to the biblical exhortations about making offerings to the Lord. Tithing/giving is intended to be a joy and a blessing. Sadly, that is sometimes not the case in the church today.
Some understand the Old Testament tithe as a method of taxation to provide for the needs of the priests and Levites in the sacrificial system. The New Testament nowhere commands, or even recommends, that Christians submit to a legalistic tithe system. Paul states that believers should set aside a portion of their income in order to support the church -1 Corinthians 16:1-2.

The New Testament nowhere designates a percentage of income a person should set aside, but only says it is to be “in keeping with income” -1 Corinthians 16:2. Some in the Christian church have taken the 10 percent figure from the Old Testament tithe and applied it as a “recommended minimum” for Christians in their giving. The New Testament talks about the importance and benefits of giving. We are to give as we are able. Sometimes that means giving more than 10 percent; sometimes that may mean giving less. It all depends on the ability of the Christian and the needs of the church. Every Christian should diligently pray and seek God’s wisdom in the matter of participating in tithing and/or how much to give -James 1:5. Above all, all tithes and offerings should be given with pure motives and an attitude of worship to God and service to the body of Christ. It all goes back to the attitude of the heart. Are we giving out of reverence for God or out of selfishness for our own wealth? “Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver” -2 Corinthians 9:7
For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. Romans 5:19
poundfoolish
#32 Posted : Wednesday, August 18, 2010 3:49:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
Guys just want to talk and talk and talk Yadda yadda yadda and attack preachers,, blanketing these whole naive backlash to the Christian religion as a whole while The liers are mostly hidden in pentecostal/independent new age churches.

We (mis)read a few verses, to our own understanding and interpretations, as have all other false preachers, so as to suit our satisfactory self-righteous worldly ways...

If you dont want to tithe, dont tithe. (nobody tells us here to buy Kenya Orchad's stocks or KPLC for that matter.
You seek advice and make your own decision. So if pple in these 'churches' have seen, heard, experienced positives due to tithing..let them be)
If somebody who attends church, and finds it satisfactory to him/her to give a portion of his farm produce and if he/she finds it difficult to transport such goods decides to give money to the church, let him or her do it...

If you deal in services and not goods, what will you tithe, plait peoples hairs over a sunday afternoon for your tithe if you are a salonist?..
LETS GET SERIOUS. MONEY IS USED FOR TITHE DUE TO ITS NATURE...In MERU, THEY TITHE IN MIRAA...sometimes.

It usually perplexes that most complainants on Church issues are usually outsiders, busybodies in respect to church matters, a good majority, only appear in church by default probably twice a year....

For wailing out loud, go get a church/religion that suits you..they are many and diverse.
I personally don't subscribe much to some of these new establishments thats why im comfortable in the Anglican church..

somebody else feels we are too soft, joins a pentecostal church

if you are dumb, go join Helicopter of christ or that one i saw on TV where theres a constant flash of "MIRACLE MIRACLE MIRACLE.. M-PESA NOW"

If you're young and upcoming theres Mavuno and the likes

Old and secure(rich), catholic or any other..

lets not just talk/write much from a bar stool, feeling like Buddha reincarnate
Mtu Biz
#33 Posted : Thursday, August 19, 2010 2:13:33 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/16/2007
Posts: 1,320

@ Poundfoolish

As one who is 'comfortable in the Anglican Church'.

Do you believe the bible is the authoritative word of God ?

Sola Scriptura


poundfoolish
#34 Posted : Thursday, August 19, 2010 3:04:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
@ Mtu biz
Yes i do
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