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VituVingiSana's MIGHTY road to wealth. Take notes!
Rank: Member Joined: 7/1/2019 Posts: 119
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for the lovers of graphs...here is the gradient descent of @VVS portfolio value.... LINK
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/1/2019 Posts: 119
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Given that the hypothetical invested amount is kshs. 10 million in 2020.
Is the "casino" really a place to invest your hard earned money since, as we have seen, @VVS 10 million bob only returns kshs 450,000 per annum or kshs. 35,000 per month which translates to a measly 4.5% return.
Is it that @VVS is a poor allocater of capital?
If this amount was invested in an MMF at 8%, he would be raking-in kshs. 800,000 p.a.
What if he invested in real estate? Or he invested in 10 nduthis worth 100k each and each returning 350bob daily?
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/1/2009 Posts: 256
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Receptor wrote:Given that the hypothetical invested amount is kshs. 10 million in 2020.
Is the "casino" really a place to invest your hard earned money since, as we have seen, @VVS 10 million bob only returns kshs 450,000 per annum or kshs. 35,000 per month which translates to a measly 4.5% return.
Is it that @VVS is a poor allocater of capital?
If this amount was invested in an MMF at 8%, he would be raking-in kshs. 800,000 p.a.
What if he invested in real estate? Or he invested in 10 nduthis worth 100k each and each returning 350bob daily? @Receptor Don't believe the hype from people who haven't put their money into those ventures you list. I tried a managed fund for 8 years and exited with a loss (hidden costs). RE too depends on location, occupancy levels, and general state of the economy...I'm there, and barely get a 5% return. Nduthis? I know so many people who didn't last a year in that business (police, hired help issues etc). I'm in the NSE too, and so far I like the returns from the counters consistently paying good dividends. As a long term investor, I don't look at the price. PS I'm a retiree, surviving primarily on passive income streams.
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/1/2019 Posts: 119
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Monk wrote:
@Receptor Don't believe the hype from people who haven't put their money into those ventures you list.
I tried a managed fund for 8 years and exited with a loss (hidden costs). RE too depends on location, occupancy levels, and general state of the economy...I'm there, and barely get a 5% return. Nduthis? I know so many people who didn't last a year in that business (police, hired help issues etc).
I'm in the NSE too, and so far I like the returns from the counters consistently paying good dividends. As a long term investor, I don't look at the price.
PS I'm a retiree, surviving primarily on passive income streams.
Thanks @Monk. Perhaps you can share your asset allocation...no details required. You never know it might inspire someone
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 6/2/2010 Posts: 1,066
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Receptor wrote:Monk wrote:
@Receptor Don't believe the hype from people who haven't put their money into those ventures you list.
I tried a managed fund for 8 years and exited with a loss (hidden costs). RE too depends on location, occupancy levels, and general state of the economy...I'm there, and barely get a 5% return. Nduthis? I know so many people who didn't last a year in that business (police, hired help issues etc).
I'm in the NSE too, and so far I like the returns from the counters consistently paying good dividends. As a long term investor, I don't look at the price.
PS I'm a retiree, surviving primarily on passive income streams.
Thanks @Monk. Perhaps you can share your asset allocation...no details required. You never know it might inspire someone As we wait for Monk to respond, I can also share my experience. Current average dividend yield 12.5% from mainly banking stocks. Exited from a rental in which I was getting a yield of 5%
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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Receptor wrote:Here is a link showing VVS portfolio as at June 2022. He has so far received approximately kshs. 419,514.5 in dividends translating to kshs. 34959.541666667 per month. His portfolio is in the red by approximately kshs 2 million. Can middle class wazuans retire comfortably on 35 ngwanyes per month? Here is the link again for those who have missed it above LINK Heh heh heh heh! Excellent number-crunch work Receptor. I got tired of dong it but doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out where VVS' portfolio ended up between 2020 and now. What's interesting is how doggedly he, Sparkly and crew cling to the myth that the casino is the fountain of wealth, yet as you have brilliantly put it hata nduthi biz afadhali. Casino for example cannot by any stretch of the imagination hold a candle to Real Estate in Kenya but they simply cannot see this. Incredible! Yet they cling on! At least me I read the writing on the wall with the PAKA many years back and left the casino never to return again. 2 million in losses on they hypothetical portfolio si jokes. But dividends of course are sustaining 
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,103 Location: Nairobi
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MugundaMan wrote:Receptor wrote:Here is a link showing VVS portfolio as at June 2022. He has so far received approximately kshs. 419,514.5 in dividends translating to kshs. 34959.541666667 per month. His portfolio is in the red by approximately kshs 2 million. Can middle class wazuans retire comfortably on 35 ngwanyes per month? Here is the link again for those who have missed it above LINK Heh heh heh heh! Excellent number-crunch work Receptor. I got tired of dong it but doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out where VVS' portfolio ended up between 2020 and now. What's interesting is how doggedly he, Sparkly and crew cling to the myth that the casino is the fountain of wealth, yet as you have brilliantly put it hata nduthi biz afadhali. Casino for example cannot by any stretch of the imagination hold a candle to Real Estate in Kenya but they simply cannot see this. Incredible! Yet they cling on! At least me I read the writing on the wall with the PAKA many years back and left the casino never to return again. 2 million in losses on they hypothetical portfolio si jokes. But dividends of course are sustaining You had the chance to keep track of the ins and outs but did not. 2020 and 2021 were tough. No doubt. I learnt many years ago to have modest expenses so I usually spend below my income. I made some changes but I can't list all since it has been a while. I added Centum, ABSA, BAT, C&G and SCBK financed by dividend income + sales of other shares eg TPSEA. Got sweet dividends from ABSA, BAT, I&M, C&G, CARB and SCBK. Waiting for announced dividends from KenyaRe and DTB. I expect dividends from Centum, CARB and Longhorn by Dec 2022. Perhaps even C&G. As for properties, unless you invested in the "right" properties many have lost value if you try to sell (vs 2019). Folks also moved to get cheaper rents or asked and got rent reductions. I am sitting pretty for 2022 and from what I see, unless there is a major shock, my dividend income is going to jump in 2023 esp from banks, Centum and BAT. My ROUGH, and subject to change, estimates for FY22 DPS BAT 55 (5+50) SCBK 20 (5+15) C&G 2 (post-bonus) CARB 1.50 (incl Special Dividend) Longhorn 0.25 Centum 1.20 ABSA 1.25 (0.25+1) Equity 5 KenyaRe 0.20 I&M 1.75 DTB 5 I will update the above as results are released. Centum by 31 July 1H for banks + BAT by 31 Aug Carbacid by 31 Oct C&G by 31 Dec KenyaRe 1H by 30 Sep Longhorn by 30 Sep Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/1/2009 Posts: 256
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Receptor wrote:Monk wrote:
@Receptor Don't believe the hype from people who haven't put their money into those ventures you list.
I tried a managed fund for 8 years and exited with a loss (hidden costs). RE too depends on location, occupancy levels, and general state of the economy...I'm there, and barely get a 5% return. Nduthis? I know so many people who didn't last a year in that business (police, hired help issues etc).
I'm in the NSE too, and so far I like the returns from the counters consistently paying good dividends. As a long term investor, I don't look at the price.
PS I'm a retiree, surviving primarily on passive income streams.
Thanks @Monk. Perhaps you can share your asset allocation...no details required. You never know it might inspire someone Suffice it to say rental income, dividends, and interest from Gov paper are all valuable revenue sources. Returns from each will vary with the prevailing economic situation. When T-Bills were giving 2 digit yields, I used to dabble; not anymore. My personal experience from RE did not live up to the hype. Of course someone else's experience in RE could be different. That said, I would not ditch RE. Neither would I ditch the NSE on the say so of those who had it worse than me in the market.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,103 Location: Nairobi
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Monk wrote:Receptor wrote:Monk wrote:
@Receptor Don't believe the hype from people who haven't put their money into those ventures you list.
I tried a managed fund for 8 years and exited with a loss (hidden costs). RE too depends on location, occupancy levels, and general state of the economy...I'm there, and barely get a 5% return. Nduthis? I know so many people who didn't last a year in that business (police, hired help issues etc).
I'm in the NSE too, and so far I like the returns from the counters consistently paying good dividends. As a long term investor, I don't look at the price.
PS I'm a retiree, surviving primarily on passive income streams.
Thanks @Monk. Perhaps you can share your asset allocation...no details required. You never know it might inspire someone Suffice it to say rental income, dividends, and interest from Gov paper are all valuable revenue sources. Returns from each will vary with the prevailing economic situation. When T-Bills were giving 2 digit yields, I used to dabble; not anymore. My personal experience from RE did not live up to the hype. Of course someone else's experience in RE could be different. That said, I would not ditch RE. Neither would I ditch the NSE on the say so of those who had it worse than me in the market.  Well said I don't enjoy the drama with renters. @mugunda seems to relish fighting people I am comfy with passive income that allows me other pursuits instead of dealing with testy tenants and funny fundis!  I am in real estate via an agent (Centum) whose employees take a huge fee for managing my real estate portfolio! So there is no confusion, I am in real estate by investing in Centum that owns land/properties in Vipingo, Uganda, Runda, etc. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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Monk wrote:
Suffice it to say rental income, dividends, and interest from Gov paper are all valuable revenue sources. Returns from each will vary with the prevailing economic situation. When T-Bills were giving 2 digit yields, I used to dabble; not anymore.
My personal experience from RE did not live up to the hype. Of course someone else's experience in RE could be different. That said, I would not ditch RE. Neither would I ditch the NSE on the say so of those who had it worse than me in the market.
This is one of the most malarkey-esque responses I have ever seen on Wazoo. "Oooo everything is valuable and returns will vary and I jump from one stream to another when the economic milieu changes" What sort of non-answer is that?? That's like a person being asked how much ROI on a stock they earned in a year and them saying, "Ooo stocks go up and down depending on prevailing economic conditions that sometimes give high returns and at others low ones." Develop a spine and have a msimamo blathee. Which sectors are outperforming which sectors and which ones (Hint; NSE) have crashed completely to pieces
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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VituVingiSana wrote:d> Well said I don't enjoy the drama with renters. @mugunda seems to relish fighting people I am comfy with passive income that allows me other pursuits instead of dealing with testy tenants and funny fundis! I am in real estate via an agent (Centum) whose employees take a huge fee for managing my real estate portfolio! So there is no confusion, I am in real estate by investing in Centum that owns land/properties in Vipingo, Uganda, Runda, etc. Au contraire. I am a very peaceable man by nature . R.E. Passive income has a price. Centum is probably taking 90% of the returns you would have made via a direct investment in RE by taking on the risk of dealing with the testy tenants and fundis  Same thing with bonds. For you to earn 10% on a GoK bond it means gava is investing your chumes and earning 30-40% returns elsewhere, no?
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/1/2009 Posts: 256
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MugundaMan wrote:Monk wrote:
Suffice it to say rental income, dividends, and interest from Gov paper are all valuable revenue sources. Returns from each will vary with the prevailing economic situation. When T-Bills were giving 2 digit yields, I used to dabble; not anymore.
My personal experience from RE did not live up to the hype. Of course someone else's experience in RE could be different. That said, I would not ditch RE. Neither would I ditch the NSE on the say so of those who had it worse than me in the market.
This is one of the most malarkey-esque responses I have ever seen on Wazoo. "Oooo everything is valuable and returns will vary and I jump from one stream to another when the economic milieu changes" What sort of non-answer is that?? That's like a person being asked how much ROI on a stock they earned in a year and them saying, "Ooo stocks go up and down depending on prevailing economic conditions that sometimes give high returns and at others low ones." Develop a spine and have a msimamo blathee. Which sectors are outperforming which sectors and which ones (Hint; NSE) have crashed completely to pieces Here we go again with the insults and condescending tirades. Goodbye
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/1/2009 Posts: 256
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VituVingiSana wrote:Monk wrote:Receptor wrote:Monk wrote:
@Receptor Don't believe the hype from people who haven't put their money into those ventures you list.
I tried a managed fund for 8 years and exited with a loss (hidden costs). RE too depends on location, occupancy levels, and general state of the economy...I'm there, and barely get a 5% return. Nduthis? I know so many people who didn't last a year in that business (police, hired help issues etc).
I'm in the NSE too, and so far I like the returns from the counters consistently paying good dividends. As a long term investor, I don't look at the price.
PS I'm a retiree, surviving primarily on passive income streams.
Thanks @Monk. Perhaps you can share your asset allocation...no details required. You never know it might inspire someone Suffice it to say rental income, dividends, and interest from Gov paper are all valuable revenue sources. Returns from each will vary with the prevailing economic situation. When T-Bills were giving 2 digit yields, I used to dabble; not anymore. My personal experience from RE did not live up to the hype. Of course someone else's experience in RE could be different. That said, I would not ditch RE. Neither would I ditch the NSE on the say so of those who had it worse than me in the market. Well said I don't enjoy the drama with renters. @mugunda seems to relish fighting people I am comfy with passive income that allows me other pursuits instead of dealing with testy tenants and funny fundis! I am in real estate via an agent (Centum) whose employees take a huge fee for managing my real estate portfolio! So there is no confusion, I am in real estate by investing in Centum that owns land/properties in Vipingo, Uganda, Runda, etc. Indeed having to deal with certain troublesome renters in my twilight years isn't something I was prepared for.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,515 Location: nairobi
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Monk wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Monk wrote:Receptor wrote:Monk wrote:
@Receptor Don't believe the hype from people who haven't put their money into those ventures you list.
I tried a managed fund for 8 years and exited with a loss (hidden costs). RE too depends on location, occupancy levels, and general state of the economy...I'm there, and barely get a 5% return. Nduthis? I know so many people who didn't last a year in that business (police, hired help issues etc).
I'm in the NSE too, and so far I like the returns from the counters consistently paying good dividends. As a long term investor, I don't look at the price.
PS I'm a retiree, surviving primarily on passive income streams.
Thanks @Monk. Perhaps you can share your asset allocation...no details required. You never know it might inspire someone Suffice it to say rental income, dividends, and interest from Gov paper are all valuable revenue sources. Returns from each will vary with the prevailing economic situation. When T-Bills were giving 2 digit yields, I used to dabble; not anymore. My personal experience from RE did not live up to the hype. Of course someone else's experience in RE could be different. That said, I would not ditch RE. Neither would I ditch the NSE on the say so of those who had it worse than me in the market. Well said I don't enjoy the drama with renters. @mugunda seems to relish fighting people I am comfy with passive income that allows me other pursuits instead of dealing with testy tenants and funny fundis! I am in real estate via an agent (Centum) whose employees take a huge fee for managing my real estate portfolio! So there is no confusion, I am in real estate by investing in Centum that owns land/properties in Vipingo, Uganda, Runda, etc. Indeed having to deal with certain troublesome renters in my twilight years isn't something I was prepared for. Depends on the property being offered, location and income levels of the proposed tenant
HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/1/2019 Posts: 119
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amorphous wrote:It will. You keep extending the time frame Your original claim was you are not an employee and you "live off hisa trading"That's the true challenge. How are you eating this month since you have neither bought nor sold anything nor received any dividend?  All indicators are that it is going to be another mediocre performance by @Mighty VVS portfolio. I predict less than kes. 450,000 return which translates to 4.5%(excluding withholding tax) @VVS would have been better off if he had invested the 10 milli in a business of choma-ing and hawking mandazi in the dusty bus terminus of Rongai rather than gambling it all in the NSE casino. Otek!
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/17/2018 Posts: 173 Location: Mars
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Receptor wrote:amorphous wrote:It will. You keep extending the time frame Your original claim was you are not an employee and you "live off hisa trading"That's the true challenge. How are you eating this month since you have neither bought nor sold anything nor received any dividend? All indicators are that it is going to be another mediocre performance by @Mighty VVS portfolio. I predict less than kes. 450,000 return which translates to 4.5%(excluding withholding tax) @VVS would have been better off if he had invested the 10 milli in a business of choma-ing and hawking mandazi in the dusty bus terminus of Rongai rather than gambling it all in the NSE casino. Otek! Shady property business which no one can verify as legitimate is better
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,103 Location: Nairobi
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Receptor wrote:amorphous wrote:It will. You keep extending the time frame Your original claim was you are not an employee and you "live off hisa trading"That's the true challenge. How are you eating this month since you have neither bought nor sold anything nor received any dividend? All indicators are that it is going to be another mediocre performance by @Mighty VVS portfolio. I predict less than kes. 450,000 return which translates to 4.5%(excluding withholding tax) @VVS would have been better off if he had invested the 10 milli in a business of choma-ing and hawking mandazi in the dusty bus terminus of Rongai rather than gambling it all in the NSE casino. Otek! It has been a tough 3 years but I made changes and shifted largely into dividend paying stocks. I do not have time to list dividends received from 1 Jan 2023 but CARB came in. March - C&G April - EABL and my tender to Diageo May - Banks June - Banks Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/15/2019 Posts: 677 Location: planet earth
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/1/2010 Posts: 511 Location: kandara, Murang'a
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Muthawamunene wrote:My contribution to this topic is this;
- 9 years ago my dividend cheques were less than 400/= (yes, I had about 20k in the market at that time)
- Through the years my dividend cheques have grown to 6 figures per annum. Hopefully, If I can get them to 7 figures before I decide its time to "ponda mali" properly.
- Stocks are NOT my only income source; heck at this point in time they are just parking for money generated from other sources. Very few get the privilege of "Living on stocks" alone.
- I have been fortunate to get into blue chips at low prices, my portfolio has never been in the red and I enjoy an average dividend yield of 11.5%.
- I have never sold, but I do make additions and reinvest when I judge the times to be right; like in 2016-2018 when they had the rate-cap (we had more than 24 months to weka haba na haba)
- If you do not have huge lump sums of money, the only way to value-invest is by doing over a long period and getting in when moments are right. I especially love long recessions, they give you time to put in little by little.
- If you do have huge chunks of money at your disposal, the best value would be real estate and business in that order, @Mugundaman actually knows what he is saying.
- The ultimate investor is a diversified investor - Stocks for long term cash-flow, Land for value appreciation, Rental and Bond income as safety nets, Business for the ultimate risk-return ratio.
- There is no quick money unless its business. I am grateful for having started early and I am grateful for Wazua esp a guy called cde-monomopata
H Where did the great Zim Comrade go? I used to enjoy hollering Pamberi zanupf to him! Foresight..
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,103 Location: Nairobi
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Luckily, I am not starving since I am not a trader. I slowly add to my holdings with dividends as they come in. Got an early payday from EABL Also C&G dividend checked in juzi Now we wait for more. Dividends2020 was dry 2021 was slightly (not much) better 2022 was OK 2023 is looking yummy esp for banks. I sold shares in firms that disappointed to get into dividend payers. April to Sep should see decent dividends from banks. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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