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Rank: Member Joined: 1/19/2016 Posts: 204
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The arrogance and temperament of Kenyan wakilis ladies and gentlemen. Moving on, to matters other than threats... I will repost for those who missed it with all these pointless posts. See below. PS - for future reference, I will not be responding to tony stark or sparkly as they are deviating from the topic at hand with threats. Sounds just like the CEO of a certain company in my humble, peasant, non learned opinion. https://twitter.com/cyto...365527503394193412?s=21 Cytonn is launching an overdraft facility. Customers can borrow money from them and customers pays back with interest. Is this not worrying anyone? Cytonn have defaulted on payments over 300 million kshs, based on ACTIVE court cases from the last 6 months alone. Probably more. Now they are lending money? Who’s money? Who’s money are they lending when they can’t even pay back their current customers?This pyramid scheme keeps getting worse and it is baffling that no regulatory body, regardless of their authority, is speaking out before billions more get stolen from innocent customers sparkly wrote:paulkimani wrote:100% agree. We have seen all too often, corruption before justice. And threats to anyone who dares speak out. The last two weeks alone, tony stark and sparkly have sent me threats because they disagree with what I post. C’est la vie here in Kenya. Head down, ignore the corrupt thugs and keep on going. VituVingiSana wrote:The law is an ass. Let's call a spade a spade. These judges were compromised.
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(i) Nicholas Biwott sued various persons and media houses for linking him to Ouko murder among other scandals - Awarded KShs 67.5 million
(ii) Chris Murungaru sued John Githongo for calling him corrupt - Awarded KShs 27 million. There is an interesting discipline called Jurisprudence i.e. the philosophical study of what the law is. Various theories have been advanced to explain what the law is and how it operates e.g. Naturalist, Positivist, Sociological, Realist, Critical. These are advanced concepts that I don't expect you to comprehend with your Diploma in Mass Communication. It is ok for you to accept that the law is an ass, just like it is in order for a toddler to accept that children are delivered to their parents by storks, while adults understand that alot of screwing happens to make babies.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/19/2016 Posts: 204
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Hands down the best apology ever!! Cytonn tried to gag kenyanwallstreet’s right to free speech. The article just linked 100 other news articles about Cytonns pyramid scheme. Brilliant work by Kenyan Wall Street. What a boss, what an apology!! Cytonn spends more time fighting bloggers than handling projects. Cytonn would have been better off without this apology. BRILLIANT. https://t.co/CEenSNg5NH?amp=1“In compliance with the above court order, we have since deleted the stories mentioned in the order to avoid any of our staff feeling threatened and unable to do their job.
It is worth noting that the stories that the company through the court order has asked us to pull down were based on publicly available court documents and have been reported by other media houses as well and some remain available to the public. (The article has linked the news stories from BD, Nation etc)
We will continue to advise our readers and the general public that before they make any investment decision, they should first do their own proper due diligence, even in good faith situations.“
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Links provided by Kenyan Wall Street to articles:Business Daily; https://www.businessdail...-sh122m-default-2371628
https://www.businessdail...over-sh14m-debt-3224722
https://www.businessdail...ns-in-cash-call-2374156
https://edition.pagesuit...7f07db7f&appid=3420
Daily Nation; https://nation.africa/ke...-sh122m-default-2371796
https://nation.africa/ke...over-sh14m-debt-3224664
https://nation.africa/ke...ss-house-cracks-2463786
Standard Media; https://www.standardmedi...n-wants-cytonn-wound-up
https://www.standardmedi...nvestors-pull-out-funds
https://www.standardmedi...-safety-of-cytonn-funds
https://www.standardmedi...it-fund-cma-tells-court
https://www.standardmedi...tor-over-payments-claim
Citizen TV Three businessmen sue Cytonn over Ksh.46 million investment The Star Newspaper; https://www.the-star.co....over-sh44million-fraud/
https://www.the-star.co....investment-from-cytonn/
https://www.the-star.co....d-sh467-million-refund/
https://www.the-star.co....embroiled-in-court-war/
Others; https://www.pd.co.ke/bus...estors-escalates-53221/
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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They have apologized, they have pulled down the story. There is still the matter of damages (cash payment) upon proof of damages by Cytonn. Keep us posted and try to avoid digging yourself in the same hole. The money you receive to smear Cytonn name will not be enough to pay them damages. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/10/2015 Posts: 961 Location: Kenya
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sparkly wrote:They have apologized, they have pulled down the story. There is still the matter of damages (cash payment) upon proof of damages by Cytonn. Keep us posted and try to avoid digging yourself in the same hole. The money you receive to smear Cytonn name will not be enough to pay them damages. will they also sue all the other media houses who have written all those articles listed above? Proverbs 13:11 Dishonest money dwindles away, but whoever gathers money little by little makes it grow.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/19/2016 Posts: 204
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Hahahahaha  It is a case of misdirecting their ire at a media outlet with the least muscle to fight back. Something Cytonn has done time and time again. Threatening and intimidating the little guy. Regardless, this incident blew up in Cytonns face. They are trending on Twitter for this reason. Any big media outlet would have it thrown out and sue Cytonn in return. They wouldn’t dare. Cytonn are simply trolls trying to abuse the courts to strangle free speech and freedom of information. This was bound to happen and it is wonderful that a smaller media outlet like Kenyan wal street are being praised for calling out the pyramid scheme! Big respect to them.  sqft wrote:sparkly wrote:They have apologized, they have pulled down the story. There is still the matter of damages (cash payment) upon proof of damages by Cytonn. Keep us posted and try to avoid digging yourself in the same hole. The money you receive to smear Cytonn name will not be enough to pay them damages. will they also sue all the other media houses who have written all those articles listed above?
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,120 Location: Nairobi
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"Githongo went beyond his official duty of reporting corruption." is a nice way of sweeping things under the carpet. "proof of any corrupt acts on Murungaru's part ie no money trail, no proof of criminal charge or conviction." What if this proof disappeared? It's like Goldenberg. Bro Paul (& many of his friends) were in and out but all a sham. BTW, is this the same Judge JK Sergon who was found unsuitable by the vetting board for "credible allegations of corruption and failing to remit client's money, lacks personal integrity"? And what about the Biwott case.sparkly wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:The law is an ass. Let's call a spade a spade. These judges were compromised.
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(i) Nicholas Biwott sued various persons and media houses for linking him to Ouko murder among other scandals - Awarded KShs 67.5 million
(ii) Chris Murungaru sued John Githongo for calling him corrupt - Awarded KShs 27 million. Here is the Githongo Judgement Murungaru versus Githongo JudgementLooks well reasoned to me: 1. Githongo went beyond his official duty of reporting curruption. He held interviews locally and abroad, probably made money from his appearances and the book. 2. Githongo did not have proof of any corrupt acts on Murungaru's part ie no money trail, no proof of criminal charge or conviction. 3. Githongo refused to retract/ apologize. 4. Civil cases are determined on a balance of probability so it was enough for Murungaru to show that defamatory words were published about him and he suffered damage to his reputation. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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VituVingiSana wrote:"Githongo went beyond his official duty of reporting corruption." is a nice way of sweeping things under the carpet. "proof of any corrupt acts on Murungaru's part ie no money trail, no proof of criminal charge or conviction." What if this proof disappeared? It's like Goldenberg. Bro Paul (& many of his friends) were in and out but all a sham. BTW, is this the same Judge JK Sergon who was found unsuitable by the vetting board for "credible allegations of corruption and failing to remit client's money, lacks personal integrity"? And what about the Biwott case.sparkly wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:The law is an ass. Let's call a spade a spade. These judges were compromised.
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(i) Nicholas Biwott sued various persons and media houses for linking him to Ouko murder among other scandals - Awarded KShs 67.5 million
(ii) Chris Murungaru sued John Githongo for calling him corrupt - Awarded KShs 27 million. Here is the Githongo Judgement Murungaru versus Githongo JudgementLooks well reasoned to me: 1. Githongo went beyond his official duty of reporting curruption. He held interviews locally and abroad, probably made money from his appearances and the book. 2. Githongo did not have proof of any corrupt acts on Murungaru's part ie no money trail, no proof of criminal charge or conviction. 3. Githongo refused to retract/ apologize. 4. Civil cases are determined on a balance of probability so it was enough for Murungaru to show that defamatory words were published about him and he suffered damage to his reputation. @VVS the message is that you should never accuse people esp people with money, power or both of crimes, immorality or impropriety unless you have solid evidence. If you don't have solid evidence you can use ambiguous terms like "a powerful minister", "a prominent business man", "a decorated wazuan" Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/19/2016 Posts: 204
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/26/2011 Posts: 759
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If Cytonn is indeed a reputable firm, then it should be able to raise money from high networth individuals, global institutions/companies etc.
The fact that Cytonn need to sell assets to raise kshs. 122 million ($1.22 million) is shocking to me.
The fact that Edwin with his Wharton network can't make phone call and pull in $100 million and have to fundraise from middle class Kenyans should be concerning.
If you raise money from Paul Kimani and people in his social class then don't blame them or anyone if they keep calling you on Monday, Wednesday and Friday to check their balance. Legitimate private equity will never pitch to small money investors, in fact most of them set a minimum investment of $1 million and 7 years investment period. I don't know Cytonne model and why they didn't raise money from high networth clients.
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/29/2008 Posts: 571
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I hear that people are being sued, but then-we are never worried by lawsuits. Whoever wants to sue, let them sue.
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/29/2008 Posts: 571
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sparkly wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:"Githongo went beyond his official duty of reporting corruption." is a nice way of sweeping things under the carpet. "proof of any corrupt acts on Murungaru's part ie no money trail, no proof of criminal charge or conviction." What if this proof disappeared? It's like Goldenberg. Bro Paul (& many of his friends) were in and out but all a sham. BTW, is this the same Judge JK Sergon who was found unsuitable by the vetting board for "credible allegations of corruption and failing to remit client's money, lacks personal integrity"? And what about the Biwott case.sparkly wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:The law is an ass. Let's call a spade a spade. These judges were compromised.
>>>
(i) Nicholas Biwott sued various persons and media houses for linking him to Ouko murder among other scandals - Awarded KShs 67.5 million
(ii) Chris Murungaru sued John Githongo for calling him corrupt - Awarded KShs 27 million. Here is the Githongo Judgement Murungaru versus Githongo JudgementLooks well reasoned to me: 1. Githongo went beyond his official duty of reporting curruption. He held interviews locally and abroad, probably made money from his appearances and the book. 2. Githongo did not have proof of any corrupt acts on Murungaru's part ie no money trail, no proof of criminal charge or conviction. 3. Githongo refused to retract/ apologize. 4. Civil cases are determined on a balance of probability so it was enough for Murungaru to show that defamatory words were published about him and he suffered damage to his reputation. @VVS the message is that you should never accuse people esp people with money, power or both of crimes, immorality or impropriety unless you have solid evidence. If you don't have solid evidence you can use ambiguous terms like "a powerful minister", "a prominent business man", "a decorated wazuan" if have money, why haven't we heard of you in the Forbes list? Give us a break.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,120 Location: Nairobi
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https://www.businessdail...ate-governance--3307342 When the law is an ass in corporate governance by a lawyer (Caroline Musyoka) who is a lawyer by training and was a director at BBK Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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Ali Baba wrote:sparkly wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:"Githongo went beyond his official duty of reporting corruption." is a nice way of sweeping things under the carpet. "proof of any corrupt acts on Murungaru's part ie no money trail, no proof of criminal charge or conviction." What if this proof disappeared? It's like Goldenberg. Bro Paul (& many of his friends) were in and out but all a sham. BTW, is this the same Judge JK Sergon who was found unsuitable by the vetting board for "credible allegations of corruption and failing to remit client's money, lacks personal integrity"? And what about the Biwott case.sparkly wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:The law is an ass. Let's call a spade a spade. These judges were compromised.
>>>
(i) Nicholas Biwott sued various persons and media houses for linking him to Ouko murder among other scandals - Awarded KShs 67.5 million
(ii) Chris Murungaru sued John Githongo for calling him corrupt - Awarded KShs 27 million. Here is the Githongo Judgement Murungaru versus Githongo JudgementLooks well reasoned to me: 1. Githongo went beyond his official duty of reporting curruption. He held interviews locally and abroad, probably made money from his appearances and the book. 2. Githongo did not have proof of any corrupt acts on Murungaru's part ie no money trail, no proof of criminal charge or conviction. 3. Githongo refused to retract/ apologize. 4. Civil cases are determined on a balance of probability so it was enough for Murungaru to show that defamatory words were published about him and he suffered damage to his reputation. @VVS the message is that you should never accuse people esp people with money, power or both of crimes, immorality or impropriety unless you have solid evidence. If you don't have solid evidence you can use ambiguous terms like "a powerful minister", "a prominent business man", "a decorated wazuan" if have money, why haven't we heard of you in the Forbes list? Give us a break. You were sleeping through the class. We were speaking about Biwott, Murungaru et al Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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sqft wrote:sparkly wrote:They have apologized, they have pulled down the story. There is still the matter of damages (cash payment) upon proof of damages by Cytonn. Keep us posted and try to avoid digging yourself in the same hole. The money you receive to smear Cytonn name will not be enough to pay them damages. will they also sue all the other media houses who have written all those articles listed above? I predicted that people would sue. Now @PK is running around reporting how people have sued! Sparkly wrote:Whistle blowing on what? You went to Cytonn, you signed an investment CONTRACT with them. If they don't fulfill their end of the bargain, you sue for BREACH of contract. In legal jargon this kind of a suit is called a "personam suit" i.e. you sue a particular person for the breach. This is to say there is nothing like whistle blowing on personal contracts. The most you can do is alert fellow netizens if something dodgy is going on and let everyone carry their burden. My next predictions:- 1. Cytonn Funds will not survive the run on assets. Pole for the investors. 2. The regulated funds, structured as Collective Investment schemes will face massive loss of capital. People will be lucky to get out 50% of what they invested. 3. The unregulated funds are worse of without ring-fencing and any security. Total write-off is likely. 4. There will be no fraud prosecutions on Cytonn directors. 5. Fund Investors will have no recourse on the real estate projects. There are priority interests on the real estate. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/19/2016 Posts: 204
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https://twitter.com/tukss_/status/1367432541389680641?s=21
“ So Cytonn is finally going down. All Directors left but Edwin is still holding on, all projects have stalled except Alma. Can't wait to see how this unfolds.”
Currently at 160 retweet’s, and 292 likes.
https://twitter.com/effects_then/status/1367566094278533122?s=21
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/2/2009 Posts: 2,458 Location: Nairobi
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Rollout wrote:If Cytonn is indeed a reputable firm, then it should be able to raise money from high networth individuals, global institutions/companies etc.
The fact that Cytonn need to sell assets to raise kshs. 122 million ($1.22 million) is shocking to me.
The fact that Edwin with his Wharton network can't make phone call and pull in $100 million and have to fundraise from middle class Kenyans should be concerning.
If you raise money from Paul Kimani and people in his social class then don't blame them or anyone if they keep calling you on Monday, Wednesday and Friday to check their balance. Legitimate private equity will never pitch to small money investors, in fact most of them set a minimum investment of $1 million and 7 years investment period. I don't know Cytonne model and why they didn't raise money from high networth clients. You clearly dont understand the Cytonn products do you? The CHYS was and is a private product whose entry was 1M with a minimum 5years lock in period. It targets High Net Worth individuals. How idlers on Twitter are whining it is their money is only stuff for movies.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/2/2009 Posts: 2,458 Location: Nairobi
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paulkimani wrote:https://twitter.com/tukss_/status/1367432541389680641?s=21
“ So Cytonn is finally going down. All Directors left but Edwin is still holding on, all projects have stalled except Alma. Can't wait to see how this unfolds.”
Currently at 160 retweet’s, and 292 likes.
https://twitter.com/effects_then/status/1367566094278533122?s=21 LOL you are going down fighting!!! Can I hire you?
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/19/2016 Posts: 204
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/29/2008 Posts: 571
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poundfoolish wrote:Rollout wrote:If Cytonn is indeed a reputable firm, then it should be able to raise money from high networth individuals, global institutions/companies etc.
The fact that Cytonn need to sell assets to raise kshs. 122 million ($1.22 million) is shocking to me.
The fact that Edwin with his Wharton network can't make phone call and pull in $100 million and have to fundraise from middle class Kenyans should be concerning.
If you raise money from Paul Kimani and people in his social class then don't blame them or anyone if they keep calling you on Monday, Wednesday and Friday to check their balance. Legitimate private equity will never pitch to small money investors, in fact most of them set a minimum investment of $1 million and 7 years investment period. I don't know Cytonne model and why they didn't raise money from high networth clients. You clearly dont understand the Cytonn products do you? The CHYS was and is a private product whose entry was 1M with a minimum 5years lock in period. It targets High Net Worth individuals. How idlers on Twitter are whining it is their money is only stuff for movies. Ksh 1m is not necessarily for HNW individuals. Every idiot has such, had it not been for the pandemic
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/26/2011 Posts: 759
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poundfoolish wrote:Rollout wrote:If Cytonn is indeed a reputable firm, then it should be able to raise money from high networth individuals, global institutions/companies etc.
The fact that Cytonn need to sell assets to raise kshs. 122 million ($1.22 million) is shocking to me.
The fact that Edwin with his Wharton network can't make phone call and pull in $100 million and have to fundraise from middle class Kenyans should be concerning.
If you raise money from Paul Kimani and people in his social class then don't blame them or anyone if they keep calling you on Monday, Wednesday and Friday to check their balance. Legitimate private equity will never pitch to small money investors, in fact most of them set a minimum investment of $1 million and 7 years investment period. I don't know Cytonne model and why they didn't raise money from high networth clients. You clearly dont understand the Cytonn products do you? The CHYS was and is a private product whose entry was 1M with a minimum 5years lock in period. It targets High Net Worth individuals. How idlers on Twitter are whining it is their money is only stuff for movies. Kshs. 1 million is a low threshold, that is kshs. 1666 management fee a month, Cytonn made a fatal mistake, they should have had at least kshs. 50 million threshold. In typical private equity investors( limited Partners) make capital commitment and fund managers( managing partners)make capital calls every time they want to make an investment. The fact that people deposit money in some account irrespective of whether Cytonn needed to deploy money at the time and people were getting interest payment regardless of whether the company had a liquidity event still don't make sense. If Cytonn was in a developed market, Edwin will be in jail!
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