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What If Lamu
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Was first conquered and colonized by the British, would it look like Mackinac Island in Michigan? Mackinac island is a tourist centered island, cars or motorbikes are not allowed you move around in horse carriage or bicycle. Some hotels require patrons to dress appropriately during dinner. Somehow i feel like historical sites at the coast have been mismanaged and are so unkept esp fort jesus and the ruins (I know they are not in Lamu) but surely the ministry should have a serious team who's main purpose is to restore these sites eg old town Lamu "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/16/2019 Posts: 313
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murchr wrote:Was first conquered and colonized by the British, would it look like Mackinac Island in Michigan? Mackinac island is a tourist centered island, cars or motorbikes are not allowed you move around in horse carriage or bicycle. Some hotels require patrons to dress appropriately during dinner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hc_fwQAvsM
Somehow i feel like historical sites at the coast have been mismanaged and are so unkept esp fort jesus and the ruins (I know they are not in Lamu) but surely the ministry should have a serious team who's main purpose is to restore these sites eg old town Lamu Bodies already exist for such. Some of the sites you've mentioned are UNESCO heritage sites. The problem is funding and lack of heritage/cultural appreciation by the locals. The locals have other pressing matters to be worried about preserving old buildings. The man driving restoration of Mombasa’s historical buildingsQuote:Ali serves as head of Mombasa Old Town Conservation Office (Motco), domiciled within the National Museums of Kenya (NMK).
“Conservation of our rich heritage goes hand in hand with conserving some of the buildings that still stand to date. Motco’s main role is to ensure that areas, where such buildings stand, are conserved for posterity,”
He says restoration of old buildings is an expensive undertaking.
“Many people who have acquired some of the buildings in gazetted locations within the Old Town conservation area have chosen to completely demolish them and start from scratch,” Ali says.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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kmucheke wrote:murchr wrote:Was first conquered and colonized by the British, would it look like Mackinac Island in Michigan? Mackinac island is a tourist centered island, cars or motorbikes are not allowed you move around in horse carriage or bicycle. Some hotels require patrons to dress appropriately during dinner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hc_fwQAvsM
Somehow i feel like historical sites at the coast have been mismanaged and are so unkept esp fort jesus and the ruins (I know they are not in Lamu) but surely the ministry should have a serious team who's main purpose is to restore these sites eg old town Lamu Bodies already exist for such. Some of the sites you've mentioned are UNESCO heritage sites. The problem is funding and lack of heritage/cultural appreciation by the locals. The locals have other pressing matters to be worried about preserving old buildings. The man driving restoration of Mombasa’s historical buildingsQuote:Ali serves as head of Mombasa Old Town Conservation Office (Motco), domiciled within the National Museums of Kenya (NMK).
“Conservation of our rich heritage goes hand in hand with conserving some of the buildings that still stand to date. Motco’s main role is to ensure that areas, where such buildings stand, are conserved for posterity,”
He says restoration of old buildings is an expensive undertaking.
“Many people who have acquired some of the buildings in gazetted locations within the Old Town conservation area have chosen to completely demolish them and start from scratch,” Ali says.
The money is available just misused by govt officials. Lack of direction is what ails this country. Why does it seem like there's only focus on Mombasa and not any other ruins in the coast? Why should developers be able to buy gazetted sites? The greed in this country wacha tu "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/16/2019 Posts: 313
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murchr wrote:kmucheke wrote:murchr wrote:Was first conquered and colonized by the British, would it look like Mackinac Island in Michigan? Mackinac island is a tourist centered island, cars or motorbikes are not allowed you move around in horse carriage or bicycle. Some hotels require patrons to dress appropriately during dinner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hc_fwQAvsM
Somehow i feel like historical sites at the coast have been mismanaged and are so unkept esp fort jesus and the ruins (I know they are not in Lamu) but surely the ministry should have a serious team who's main purpose is to restore these sites eg old town Lamu Bodies already exist for such. Some of the sites you've mentioned are UNESCO heritage sites. The problem is funding and lack of heritage/cultural appreciation by the locals. The locals have other pressing matters to be worried about preserving old buildings. The man driving restoration of Mombasa’s historical buildingsQuote:Ali serves as head of Mombasa Old Town Conservation Office (Motco), domiciled within the National Museums of Kenya (NMK).
“Conservation of our rich heritage goes hand in hand with conserving some of the buildings that still stand to date. Motco’s main role is to ensure that areas, where such buildings stand, are conserved for posterity,”
He says restoration of old buildings is an expensive undertaking.
“Many people who have acquired some of the buildings in gazetted locations within the Old Town conservation area have chosen to completely demolish them and start from scratch,” Ali says.
The money is available just misused by govt officials. Lack of direction is what ails this country. Why does it seem like there's only focus on Mombasa and not any other ruins in the coast? Why should developers be able to buy gazetted sites? The greed in this country wacha tu True corruption is definitely at play here. The National Museums is involved in protection and preservation of monuments and historical sites not only in Mombasa but even other places in Kenya. Another problem is development at the coast. The Lapsset project and related infrastructure development is a threat to most of the coastal historical sites. LINKQuote:Protection and management requirements
Lamu Old Town is managed by the National Museums and Heritage Act 2006 (that replaced the 1983 National Museums Act CAP 216 and Antiquities and Monuments Act CAP 215) and the Local Governments Act (and the associated by laws). Physical construction is also subjected to the EMCA Act and the 2006 Planning Act, which recognize that archaeology is material for consideration. The Old Town has a gazetted buffer zone that includes the Manda and Ras Kitau mangrove skyline and the Shela sand dunes, also protected by the Forest Act and Water Act respectively (although the buffer zone has not been formally approved by the World Heritage Committee). All the components are legally protected
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/21/2018 Posts: 564 Location: Britain
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kmucheke wrote:murchr wrote:kmucheke wrote:murchr wrote:Was first conquered and colonized by the British, would it look like Mackinac Island in Michigan? Mackinac island is a tourist centered island, cars or motorbikes are not allowed you move around in horse carriage or bicycle. Some hotels require patrons to dress appropriately during dinner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hc_fwQAvsM
Somehow i feel like historical sites at the coast have been mismanaged and are so unkept esp fort jesus and the ruins (I know they are not in Lamu) but surely the ministry should have a serious team who's main purpose is to restore these sites eg old town Lamu Bodies already exist for such. Some of the sites you've mentioned are UNESCO heritage sites. The problem is funding and lack of heritage/cultural appreciation by the locals. The locals have other pressing matters to be worried about preserving old buildings. The man driving restoration of Mombasa’s historical buildingsQuote:Ali serves as head of Mombasa Old Town Conservation Office (Motco), domiciled within the National Museums of Kenya (NMK).
“Conservation of our rich heritage goes hand in hand with conserving some of the buildings that still stand to date. Motco’s main role is to ensure that areas, where such buildings stand, are conserved for posterity,”
He says restoration of old buildings is an expensive undertaking.
“Many people who have acquired some of the buildings in gazetted locations within the Old Town conservation area have chosen to completely demolish them and start from scratch,” Ali says.
The money is available just misused by govt officials. Lack of direction is what ails this country. Why does it seem like there's only focus on Mombasa and not any other ruins in the coast? Why should developers be able to buy gazetted sites? The greed in this country wacha tu True corruption is definitely at play here. The National Museums is involved in protection and preservation of monuments and historical sites not only in Mombasa but even other places in Kenya. Another problem is development at the coast. The Lapsset project and related infrastructure development is a threat to most of the coastal historical sites. LINKQuote:Protection and management requirements
Lamu Old Town is managed by the National Museums and Heritage Act 2006 (that replaced the 1983 National Museums Act CAP 216 and Antiquities and Monuments Act CAP 215) and the Local Governments Act (and the associated by laws). Physical construction is also subjected to the EMCA Act and the 2006 Planning Act, which recognize that archaeology is material for consideration. The Old Town has a gazetted buffer zone that includes the Manda and Ras Kitau mangrove skyline and the Shela sand dunes, also protected by the Forest Act and Water Act respectively (although the buffer zone has not been formally approved by the World Heritage Committee). All the components are legally protected
The LAPSSET project is on the mainland and is located several kilometres from Lamu Island so, I guess, it has very limited effect on the Lamu heritage.
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/16/2019 Posts: 313
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Queen wrote:kmucheke wrote:murchr wrote:kmucheke wrote:murchr wrote:Was first conquered and colonized by the British, would it look like Mackinac Island in Michigan? Mackinac island is a tourist centered island, cars or motorbikes are not allowed you move around in horse carriage or bicycle. Some hotels require patrons to dress appropriately during dinner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hc_fwQAvsM
Somehow i feel like historical sites at the coast have been mismanaged and are so unkept esp fort jesus and the ruins (I know they are not in Lamu) but surely the ministry should have a serious team who's main purpose is to restore these sites eg old town Lamu Bodies already exist for such. Some of the sites you've mentioned are UNESCO heritage sites. The problem is funding and lack of heritage/cultural appreciation by the locals. The locals have other pressing matters to be worried about preserving old buildings. The man driving restoration of Mombasa’s historical buildingsQuote:Ali serves as head of Mombasa Old Town Conservation Office (Motco), domiciled within the National Museums of Kenya (NMK).
“Conservation of our rich heritage goes hand in hand with conserving some of the buildings that still stand to date. Motco’s main role is to ensure that areas, where such buildings stand, are conserved for posterity,”
He says restoration of old buildings is an expensive undertaking.
“Many people who have acquired some of the buildings in gazetted locations within the Old Town conservation area have chosen to completely demolish them and start from scratch,” Ali says.
The money is available just misused by govt officials. Lack of direction is what ails this country. Why does it seem like there's only focus on Mombasa and not any other ruins in the coast? Why should developers be able to buy gazetted sites? The greed in this country wacha tu True corruption is definitely at play here. The National Museums is involved in protection and preservation of monuments and historical sites not only in Mombasa but even other places in Kenya. Another problem is development at the coast. The Lapsset project and related infrastructure development is a threat to most of the coastal historical sites. LINKQuote:Protection and management requirements
Lamu Old Town is managed by the National Museums and Heritage Act 2006 (that replaced the 1983 National Museums Act CAP 216 and Antiquities and Monuments Act CAP 215) and the Local Governments Act (and the associated by laws). Physical construction is also subjected to the EMCA Act and the 2006 Planning Act, which recognize that archaeology is material for consideration. The Old Town has a gazetted buffer zone that includes the Manda and Ras Kitau mangrove skyline and the Shela sand dunes, also protected by the Forest Act and Water Act respectively (although the buffer zone has not been formally approved by the World Heritage Committee). All the components are legally protected
The LAPSSET project is on the mainland and is located several kilometres from Lamu Island so, I guess, it has very limited effect on the Lamu heritage. Actually it does. UNESCO has been voicing this concern for some time now. LINKQuote:In its draft decision, the committee found that Lamu Old Town is “under potential danger” due to the advancement of LAPSSET and the lack of information about project impacts and mitigation measures. The projects threaten the cultural integrity and, thus, outstanding universal value of Lamu.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/21/2018 Posts: 564 Location: Britain
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kmucheke wrote:Queen wrote:kmucheke wrote:murchr wrote:kmucheke wrote:murchr wrote:Was first conquered and colonized by the British, would it look like Mackinac Island in Michigan? Mackinac island is a tourist centered island, cars or motorbikes are not allowed you move around in horse carriage or bicycle. Some hotels require patrons to dress appropriately during dinner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hc_fwQAvsM
Somehow i feel like historical sites at the coast have been mismanaged and are so unkept esp fort jesus and the ruins (I know they are not in Lamu) but surely the ministry should have a serious team who's main purpose is to restore these sites eg old town Lamu Bodies already exist for such. Some of the sites you've mentioned are UNESCO heritage sites. The problem is funding and lack of heritage/cultural appreciation by the locals. The locals have other pressing matters to be worried about preserving old buildings. The man driving restoration of Mombasa’s historical buildingsQuote:Ali serves as head of Mombasa Old Town Conservation Office (Motco), domiciled within the National Museums of Kenya (NMK).
“Conservation of our rich heritage goes hand in hand with conserving some of the buildings that still stand to date. Motco’s main role is to ensure that areas, where such buildings stand, are conserved for posterity,”
He says restoration of old buildings is an expensive undertaking.
“Many people who have acquired some of the buildings in gazetted locations within the Old Town conservation area have chosen to completely demolish them and start from scratch,” Ali says.
The money is available just misused by govt officials. Lack of direction is what ails this country. Why does it seem like there's only focus on Mombasa and not any other ruins in the coast? Why should developers be able to buy gazetted sites? The greed in this country wacha tu True corruption is definitely at play here. The National Museums is involved in protection and preservation of monuments and historical sites not only in Mombasa but even other places in Kenya. Another problem is development at the coast. The Lapsset project and related infrastructure development is a threat to most of the coastal historical sites. LINKQuote:Protection and management requirements
Lamu Old Town is managed by the National Museums and Heritage Act 2006 (that replaced the 1983 National Museums Act CAP 216 and Antiquities and Monuments Act CAP 215) and the Local Governments Act (and the associated by laws). Physical construction is also subjected to the EMCA Act and the 2006 Planning Act, which recognize that archaeology is material for consideration. The Old Town has a gazetted buffer zone that includes the Manda and Ras Kitau mangrove skyline and the Shela sand dunes, also protected by the Forest Act and Water Act respectively (although the buffer zone has not been formally approved by the World Heritage Committee). All the components are legally protected
The LAPSSET project is on the mainland and is located several kilometres from Lamu Island so, I guess, it has very limited effect on the Lamu heritage. Actually it does. UNESCO has been voicing this concern for some time now. LINKQuote:In its draft decision, the committee found that Lamu Old Town is “under potential danger” due to the advancement of LAPSSET and the lack of information about project impacts and mitigation measures. The projects threaten the cultural integrity and, thus, outstanding universal value of Lamu. UNESCO is a busy body. If you walk along the Lamu sea-shore, you will notice several sea walls constructed in the last few years. The aim of the seawall is primarily to protect structures along the sea shore against effects of erosion by sea waters especially during high tides. Despite the obvious advantage of the seawall, would you believe that UNESCO was against its construction? Back to LAPPSET, the reason UNESCO is against it is essentially to "guard Lamu" against the "cultural decay" that is likely to happen due to infiltration by people from "outside".
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/16/2019 Posts: 313
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Queen wrote:kmucheke wrote:Queen wrote:kmucheke wrote:murchr wrote:kmucheke wrote:murchr wrote:Was first conquered and colonized by the British, would it look like Mackinac Island in Michigan? Mackinac island is a tourist centered island, cars or motorbikes are not allowed you move around in horse carriage or bicycle. Some hotels require patrons to dress appropriately during dinner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hc_fwQAvsM
Somehow i feel like historical sites at the coast have been mismanaged and are so unkept esp fort jesus and the ruins (I know they are not in Lamu) but surely the ministry should have a serious team who's main purpose is to restore these sites eg old town Lamu Bodies already exist for such. Some of the sites you've mentioned are UNESCO heritage sites. The problem is funding and lack of heritage/cultural appreciation by the locals. The locals have other pressing matters to be worried about preserving old buildings. The man driving restoration of Mombasa’s historical buildingsQuote:Ali serves as head of Mombasa Old Town Conservation Office (Motco), domiciled within the National Museums of Kenya (NMK).
“Conservation of our rich heritage goes hand in hand with conserving some of the buildings that still stand to date. Motco’s main role is to ensure that areas, where such buildings stand, are conserved for posterity,”
He says restoration of old buildings is an expensive undertaking.
“Many people who have acquired some of the buildings in gazetted locations within the Old Town conservation area have chosen to completely demolish them and start from scratch,” Ali says.
The money is available just misused by govt officials. Lack of direction is what ails this country. Why does it seem like there's only focus on Mombasa and not any other ruins in the coast? Why should developers be able to buy gazetted sites? The greed in this country wacha tu True corruption is definitely at play here. The National Museums is involved in protection and preservation of monuments and historical sites not only in Mombasa but even other places in Kenya. Another problem is development at the coast. The Lapsset project and related infrastructure development is a threat to most of the coastal historical sites. LINKQuote:Protection and management requirements
Lamu Old Town is managed by the National Museums and Heritage Act 2006 (that replaced the 1983 National Museums Act CAP 216 and Antiquities and Monuments Act CAP 215) and the Local Governments Act (and the associated by laws). Physical construction is also subjected to the EMCA Act and the 2006 Planning Act, which recognize that archaeology is material for consideration. The Old Town has a gazetted buffer zone that includes the Manda and Ras Kitau mangrove skyline and the Shela sand dunes, also protected by the Forest Act and Water Act respectively (although the buffer zone has not been formally approved by the World Heritage Committee). All the components are legally protected
The LAPSSET project is on the mainland and is located several kilometres from Lamu Island so, I guess, it has very limited effect on the Lamu heritage. Actually it does. UNESCO has been voicing this concern for some time now. LINKQuote:In its draft decision, the committee found that Lamu Old Town is “under potential danger” due to the advancement of LAPSSET and the lack of information about project impacts and mitigation measures. The projects threaten the cultural integrity and, thus, outstanding universal value of Lamu. UNESCO is a busy body. If you walk along the Lamu sea-shore, you will notice several sea walls constructed in the last few years. The aim of the seawall is primarily to protect structures along the sea shore against effects of erosion by sea waters especially during high tides. Despite the obvious advantage of the seawall, would you believe that UNESCO was against its construction? Back to LAPPSET, the reason UNESCO is against it is essentially to "guard Lamu" against the "cultural decay" that is likely to happen due to infiltration by people from "outside". Exactly, I was hesitant to point out the "cultural erosion" by "outsiders" during the construction period in and around Lamu.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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kmucheke wrote:Queen wrote:kmucheke wrote:Queen wrote:kmucheke wrote:murchr wrote:kmucheke wrote:murchr wrote:Was first conquered and colonized by the British, would it look like Mackinac Island in Michigan? Mackinac island is a tourist centered island, cars or motorbikes are not allowed you move around in horse carriage or bicycle. Some hotels require patrons to dress appropriately during dinner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hc_fwQAvsM
Somehow i feel like historical sites at the coast have been mismanaged and are so unkept esp fort jesus and the ruins (I know they are not in Lamu) but surely the ministry should have a serious team who's main purpose is to restore these sites eg old town Lamu Bodies already exist for such. Some of the sites you've mentioned are UNESCO heritage sites. The problem is funding and lack of heritage/cultural appreciation by the locals. The locals have other pressing matters to be worried about preserving old buildings. The man driving restoration of Mombasa’s historical buildingsQuote:Ali serves as head of Mombasa Old Town Conservation Office (Motco), domiciled within the National Museums of Kenya (NMK).
“Conservation of our rich heritage goes hand in hand with conserving some of the buildings that still stand to date. Motco’s main role is to ensure that areas, where such buildings stand, are conserved for posterity,”
He says restoration of old buildings is an expensive undertaking.
“Many people who have acquired some of the buildings in gazetted locations within the Old Town conservation area have chosen to completely demolish them and start from scratch,” Ali says.
The money is available just misused by govt officials. Lack of direction is what ails this country. Why does it seem like there's only focus on Mombasa and not any other ruins in the coast? Why should developers be able to buy gazetted sites? The greed in this country wacha tu True corruption is definitely at play here. The National Museums is involved in protection and preservation of monuments and historical sites not only in Mombasa but even other places in Kenya. Another problem is development at the coast. The Lapsset project and related infrastructure development is a threat to most of the coastal historical sites. LINKQuote:Protection and management requirements
Lamu Old Town is managed by the National Museums and Heritage Act 2006 (that replaced the 1983 National Museums Act CAP 216 and Antiquities and Monuments Act CAP 215) and the Local Governments Act (and the associated by laws). Physical construction is also subjected to the EMCA Act and the 2006 Planning Act, which recognize that archaeology is material for consideration. The Old Town has a gazetted buffer zone that includes the Manda and Ras Kitau mangrove skyline and the Shela sand dunes, also protected by the Forest Act and Water Act respectively (although the buffer zone has not been formally approved by the World Heritage Committee). All the components are legally protected
The LAPSSET project is on the mainland and is located several kilometres from Lamu Island so, I guess, it has very limited effect on the Lamu heritage. Actually it does. UNESCO has been voicing this concern for some time now. LINKQuote:In its draft decision, the committee found that Lamu Old Town is “under potential danger” due to the advancement of LAPSSET and the lack of information about project impacts and mitigation measures. The projects threaten the cultural integrity and, thus, outstanding universal value of Lamu. UNESCO is a busy body. If you walk along the Lamu sea-shore, you will notice several sea walls constructed in the last few years. The aim of the seawall is primarily to protect structures along the sea shore against effects of erosion by sea waters especially during high tides. Despite the obvious advantage of the seawall, would you believe that UNESCO was against its construction? Back to LAPPSET, the reason UNESCO is against it is essentially to "guard Lamu" against the "cultural decay" that is likely to happen due to infiltration by people from "outside". Exactly, I was hesitant to point out the "cultural erosion" by "outsiders" during the construction period in and around Lamu. Culture is eroded one way or another historical sites should remain as historical sites and co exist with modern development. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/15/2011 Posts: 4,518
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murchr wrote:Was first conquered and colonized by the British, would it look like Mackinac Island in Michigan? Mackinac island is a tourist centered island, cars or motorbikes are not allowed you move around in horse carriage or bicycle. Some hotels require patrons to dress appropriately during dinner. Somehow i feel like historical sites at the coast have been mismanaged and are so unkept esp fort jesus and the ruins (I know they are not in Lamu) but surely the ministry should have a serious team who's main purpose is to restore these sites eg old town Lamu It's the locals mindset. There you have a people who are so determined to keep their little town beautiful clean and attractive by obeying the law.A town where law is applied without fear,greed or favour.A town where breaking the law attracts punishment.People just love their town as they love themselves. Now take a bunch of Kenyans and place them on this island then come back after 6 months. You will wonder whether you just landed in Migingo or hell. i.e if you will be lucky enough to find an access route. "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/10/2015 Posts: 961 Location: Kenya
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The coast should be the most developed region in kenya, them having been interacting with and trading with the rest of the world eg portuguese, chinese, arabs, british etc for centuries. They were even ruled for over 100yrs as part of the omani empire. They were exposed to the rest of the world unlike inland kenya which was discovered "just the other day" (1890s). The coast should be east africa's "french riviera". But alas the coast claims to be a marginalized and undeveloped region even after being exposed to "civilisation" for over 500yrs.  Proverbs 13:11 Dishonest money dwindles away, but whoever gathers money little by little makes it grow.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/4/2011 Posts: 116
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sqft wrote:The coast should be the most developed region in kenya, them having been interacting with and trading with the rest of the world eg portuguese, chinese, arabs, british etc for centuries. They were even ruled for over 100yrs as part of the omani empire. They were exposed to the rest of the world unlike inland kenya which was discovered "just the other day" (1890s). The coast should be east africa's "french riviera". But alas the coast claims to be a marginalized and undeveloped region even after being exposed to "civilisation" for over 500yrs. Malindi and Momabasa even appear on Milton's Paradise Lost epic "Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannize their teachers."
•Socrates (470?-399 BC)
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