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Rank: New-farer Joined: 3/28/2016 Posts: 37 Location: nairobi
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A 5.5% return (though the capital gains are unrealized) in one month is even higher than that SIB product called Mansa X which I think is at 2% per month.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/15/2019 Posts: 677 Location: planet earth
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kediveKed wrote:A 5.5% return (though the capital gains are unrealized) in one month is even higher than that SIB product called Mansa X which I think is at 2% per month. As I said, it feels good while it lasts Wacha hitilafu iangukie mtu. All it takes is one negative news story exposing the rot within! Scandals are not very far from even the bluest chip companies in this republic of ours. Casino si mjezo kapsa kapsaa. Age and family mellows us all over time
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,103 Location: Nairobi
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Nothing to get excited about given it is Month 1 of 48. 47 to go. Dividend drought coming in 2021 as FY2020 losses pile up. I will update you on dividends and trades. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/15/2019 Posts: 677 Location: planet earth
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VituVingiSana wrote: Nothing to get excited about given it is Month 1 of 48. 47 to go. Dividend drought coming in 2021 as FY2020 losses pile up.
I will update you on dividends and trades.
Fair enough But just for comparison's sake and the main reason why I say investing in the rickety casino vs RE is insanity.. I am building a 2 br bungalow within 30 days tops that will generate 15k a month The moment the last drop of paint dries on the finished thing after construction, the structure alone would easily be worth double the value since I built at cost using my expertise and without paying a contractors profit since I am the contractor. AND THIS DOUBLING IS A VERY CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE. What are the unrealized returns on that in a single month? And this is before accounting for the long term cap gain on the land aspect of said property. I would have to be NU.TS to invest in the creaky casino over RE But gila mtu na sumu yaghe Age and family mellows us all over time
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,103 Location: Nairobi
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amorphous wrote:VituVingiSana wrote: Nothing to get excited about given it is Month 1 of 48. 47 to go. Dividend drought coming in 2021 as FY2020 losses pile up.
I will update you on dividends and trades.
Fair enough But just for comparison's sake and the main reason why I say investing in the rickety casino vs RE is insanity.. I am building a 2 br bungalow within 30 days tops that will generate 15k a month The moment the last drop of paint dries on the finished thing after construction, the structure alone would easily be worth double the value since I built at cost using my expertise and without paying a contractors profit since I am the contractor. AND THIS DOUBLING IS A VERY CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE. What are the unrealized returns on that in a single month? And this is before accounting for the long term cap gain on the land aspect of said property. I would have to be NU.TS to invest in the creaky casino over RE But gila mtu na sumu yaghe I am building a 2 br bungalow within 30 days tops Umepata all relevant approvals? Ama, pale DC anything goes? Also what's the cost of the project? Land and construction. And net income after all expenses including maintenance, etc. Good for you re: real estate projects but different strokes for different folks. Different roads, same destination. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/15/2019 Posts: 677 Location: planet earth
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VituVingiSana wrote:amorphous wrote:VituVingiSana wrote: Nothing to get excited about given it is Month 1 of 48. 47 to go. Dividend drought coming in 2021 as FY2020 losses pile up.
I will update you on dividends and trades.
Fair enough But just for comparison's sake and the main reason why I say investing in the rickety casino vs RE is insanity.. I am building a 2 br bungalow within 30 days tops that will generate 15k a month The moment the last drop of paint dries on the finished thing after construction, the structure alone would easily be worth double the value since I built at cost using my expertise and without paying a contractors profit since I am the contractor. AND THIS DOUBLING IS A VERY CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE. What are the unrealized returns on that in a single month? And this is before accounting for the long term cap gain on the land aspect of said property. I would have to be NU.TS to invest in the creaky casino over RE But gila mtu na sumu yaghe I am building a 2 br bungalow within 30 days tops Umepata all relevant approvals? Ama, pale DC anything goes? Also what's the cost of the project? Land and construction. And net income after all expenses including maintenance, etc. Good for you re: real estate projects but different strokes for different folks. Different roads, same destination. Shared my formula kitaambo. Read and weep mbradza http://wazua.co.ke/forum.aspx?g=posts&t=38020
Who in their right minds gets approvals for SQ's in this here Kiinya? Approvals will come for the main structure whether apartments of Maisonettes. Different strokes indeed, BUTRE is like crossing Tana River in a well fueled chopper, parachutes in tow, Ex-military experienced pilot at the helm, fuel to last a full day of flying, air conditioning dani yage plus snacks and kekis to munch with the missus while you both watch Nancy on the property show.CASINO on the other hand is like crossing same river in a rickety DUG OUT CANOE wearing chupi peke yake, with a grevillea mbao as a paddle to navigate across the shark infested rapids! Could you make it across? Perhaps. But at great cost and effort including possibly loss of limb! Age and family mellows us all over time
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,103 Location: Nairobi
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What would 1/8 acre cost today after all expenses? Building is 1mn per the thread. I am the type to get approvals. Just one of those Uzee things. I am trying to understand the numbers. 15k x 12 = 180k is an impressive 18% p.a. gross but excludes the cost of land. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/15/2019 Posts: 677 Location: planet earth
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VituVingiSana wrote:What would 1/8 acre cost today after all expenses? Building is 1mn per the thread. I am the type to get approvals. Just one of those Uzee things.
I am trying to understand the numbers.
15k x 12 = 180k is an impressive 18% p.a. gross but excludes the cost of land. Plug in 2 metre for the average 1/8th. But please remember if I bought it in 2010, I paid 500k or less for it. And if I hold it for 10 years, it might be going for 20m then. As I said, tis a no brainer between the two (RE vs Casino) Age and family mellows us all over time
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,103 Location: Nairobi
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amorphous wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:What would 1/8 acre cost today after all expenses? Building is 1mn per the thread. I am the type to get approvals. Just one of those Uzee things.
I am trying to understand the numbers.
15k x 12 = 180k is an impressive 18% p.a. gross but excludes the cost of land. Plug in 2 metre for the average 1/8th. But please remember if I bought it in 2010, I paid 500k or less for it. And if I hold it for 10 years, it might be going for 20m then. As I said, tis a no brainer between the two (RE vs Casino) 1) We have to use today's value. Some of my shares were purchased kitambo and at very low prices but that's irrelevant since we look forward. 2) Yes, it MIGHT go for 20mn in 10 years. Or not. We do not know. So using the revised capital input is 3mn. Then 180k/3mn = 6% p.a. though there is potential for the plot but it also needs additional capital to develop assuming you will build a "regular" house vs a SQ. I use similar logic e.g. Centum which has lots of undeveloped land (FV shown at today's prices/value) and I expect it to generate a cash return in the future. Good luck. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/15/2019 Posts: 677 Location: planet earth
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VituVingiSana wrote:amorphous wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:What would 1/8 acre cost today after all expenses? Building is 1mn per the thread. I am the type to get approvals. Just one of those Uzee things.
I am trying to understand the numbers.
15k x 12 = 180k is an impressive 18% p.a. gross but excludes the cost of land. Plug in 2 metre for the average 1/8th. But please remember if I bought it in 2010, I paid 500k or less for it. And if I hold it for 10 years, it might be going for 20m then. As I said, tis a no brainer between the two (RE vs Casino) 1) We have to use today's value. Some of my shares were purchased kitambo and at very low prices but that's irrelevant since we look forward. 2) Yes, it MIGHT go for 20mn in 10 years. Or not. We do not know. So using the revised capital input is 3mn. Then 180k/3mn = 6% p.a. though there is potential for the plot but it also needs additional capital to develop assuming you will build a "regular" house vs a SQ. I use similar logic e.g. Centum which has lots of undeveloped land (FV shown at today's prices/value) and I expect it to generate a cash return in the future. Good luck. Good points but umesahau the small issue of my instant one month 100% cap gain on the structure . The long term cap gain is as good as guaranteed if the past 50+ post independence track record is anything to go by ! Age and family mellows us all over time
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,103 Location: Nairobi
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amorphous wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:amorphous wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:What would 1/8 acre cost today after all expenses? Building is 1mn per the thread. I am the type to get approvals. Just one of those Uzee things.
I am trying to understand the numbers.
15k x 12 = 180k is an impressive 18% p.a. gross but excludes the cost of land. Plug in 2 metre for the average 1/8th. But please remember if I bought it in 2010, I paid 500k or less for it. And if I hold it for 10 years, it might be going for 20m then. As I said, tis a no brainer between the two (RE vs Casino) 1) We have to use today's value. Some of my shares were purchased kitambo and at very low prices but that's irrelevant since we look forward. 2) Yes, it MIGHT go for 20mn in 10 years. Or not. We do not know. So using the revised capital input is 3mn. Then 180k/3mn = 6% p.a. though there is potential for the plot but it also needs additional capital to develop assuming you will build a "regular" house vs a SQ. I use similar logic e.g. Centum which has lots of undeveloped land (FV shown at today's prices/value) and I expect it to generate a cash return in the future. Good luck. Good points but umesahau the small issue of my instant one month 100% cap gain on the structure . The long term cap gain is as good as guaranteed if the past 50+ post independence track record is anything to go by ! Are you saying the 1mn SQ will be valued at 2mn after you finish the construction in 30 days? In other words, the plot + SQ = 4mn? If true, then my dear @amorphous, forget the "rent" and sell it off for 4mn. Then buy another plot for 2mn. Rinse and repeat every month. Clear 1mn/month on an initial capital investment of 3mn. My ROI even in an excellent year cannot match 33%/month. If you can make 33% per month then Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/15/2019 Posts: 677 Location: planet earth
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VituVingiSana wrote:amorphous wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:amorphous wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:What would 1/8 acre cost today after all expenses? Building is 1mn per the thread. I am the type to get approvals. Just one of those Uzee things.
I am trying to understand the numbers.
15k x 12 = 180k is an impressive 18% p.a. gross but excludes the cost of land. Plug in 2 metre for the average 1/8th. But please remember if I bought it in 2010, I paid 500k or less for it. And if I hold it for 10 years, it might be going for 20m then. As I said, tis a no brainer between the two (RE vs Casino) 1) We have to use today's value. Some of my shares were purchased kitambo and at very low prices but that's irrelevant since we look forward. 2) Yes, it MIGHT go for 20mn in 10 years. Or not. We do not know. So using the revised capital input is 3mn. Then 180k/3mn = 6% p.a. though there is potential for the plot but it also needs additional capital to develop assuming you will build a "regular" house vs a SQ. I use similar logic e.g. Centum which has lots of undeveloped land (FV shown at today's prices/value) and I expect it to generate a cash return in the future. Good luck. Good points but umesahau the small issue of my instant one month 100% cap gain on the structure . The long term cap gain is as good as guaranteed if the past 50+ post independence track record is anything to go by ! Are you saying the 1mn SQ will be valued at 2mn after you finish the construction in 30 days? In other words, the plot + SQ = 4mn?If true, then my dear @amorphous, forget the "rent" and sell it off for 4mn. Then buy another plot for 2mn. Rinse and repeat every month. Clear 1mn/month on an initial capital investment of 3mn. My ROI even in an excellent year cannot match 33%/month. If you can make 33% per month then Easy peasy in fact more and I already told you this is a conservative estimate Why would I sell when I will build more (whether maisonette/apartments) on the same and hold for 50 YEAR CAP GAIN assuming God lets me live that long. Meanwhile the rents ingia the pockets shwaaa and I hold ZERO LOANS.NO comparison bradda. We have been harping that hapa for years but you casino guys keep opposing us! Age and family mellows us all over time
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,103 Location: Nairobi
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amorphous wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:amorphous wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:amorphous wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:What would 1/8 acre cost today after all expenses? Building is 1mn per the thread. I am the type to get approvals. Just one of those Uzee things.
I am trying to understand the numbers.
15k x 12 = 180k is an impressive 18% p.a. gross but excludes the cost of land. Plug in 2 metre for the average 1/8th. But please remember if I bought it in 2010, I paid 500k or less for it. And if I hold it for 10 years, it might be going for 20m then. As I said, tis a no brainer between the two (RE vs Casino) 1) We have to use today's value. Some of my shares were purchased kitambo and at very low prices but that's irrelevant since we look forward. 2) Yes, it MIGHT go for 20mn in 10 years. Or not. We do not know. So using the revised capital input is 3mn. Then 180k/3mn = 6% p.a. though there is potential for the plot but it also needs additional capital to develop assuming you will build a "regular" house vs a SQ. I use similar logic e.g. Centum which has lots of undeveloped land (FV shown at today's prices/value) and I expect it to generate a cash return in the future. Good luck. Good points but umesahau the small issue of my instant one month 100% cap gain on the structure . The long term cap gain is as good as guaranteed if the past 50+ post independence track record is anything to go by ! Are you saying the 1mn SQ will be valued at 2mn after you finish the construction in 30 days? In other words, the plot + SQ = 4mn?If true, then my dear @amorphous, forget the "rent" and sell it off for 4mn. Then buy another plot for 2mn. Rinse and repeat every month. Clear 1mn/month on an initial capital investment of 3mn. My ROI even in an excellent year cannot match 33%/month. If you can make 33% per month then Easy peasy in fact more and I already told you this is a conservative estimate Why would I sell when I will build more (whether maisonette/apartments) on the same and hold for 50 YEAR CAP GAIN assuming God lets me live that long. Meanwhile the rents ingia the pockets shwaaa and I hold ZERO LOANS.NO comparison bradda. We have been harping that hapa for years but you casino guys keep opposing us! Good for you! Warren Buffett should learn from you. If I get 50% in 4 years, I will be thrilled. You can do it in 2 months. You shouldn't waste time with us on this board. You should borrow from banks, even M-Shwari. 33% - 10% = 23% per month! Why work on just 1 plot? Buy 5 and your savings on materials, labor thanks to economies of scale will improve your margins. So 5 x 23% x 3mn = 3.5mn/month. That's way more than I can say I make. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/15/2019 Posts: 677 Location: planet earth
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VituVingiSana wrote: Good for you! Warren Buffett should learn from you. Buffett (your hero) reallly isn't into the beautiful world of RE per se so I doubt he would be interested Quote: If I get 50% in 4 years, I will be thrilled. You can do it in 2 months. Typical casino man. 12.5% annualized returns is a big deal to you?? Allow me to What if I told you I can make a near infinity % return on a property depending on how I structure the deal (advanced principles) Si utazirai? How else shall we HAMMER PRACTICAL WISDOM into your heads Quote:You should borrow from banks I NEVER borrow from NOBADY Quote: even M-Shwari. 33% - 10% = 23% per month!Why work on just 1 plot? Buy 5 and your savings on materials, labor thanks to economies of scale will improve your margins. 1. Who says I have just one plot? 2. "economies of scale will improve your margins." I told you before you are a very briliant straight A type with a dearth of practical wisdom. You work with what you read in books. If a bag of cement is 580 fixed including transport to site, how will economies of scale improve my margins here I rest my case . Join us in RE or perish!!! Age and family mellows us all over time
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,103 Location: Nairobi
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Apart from cement, there are other goods and services one purchases. You can negotiate better rates for these by buying in bulk. Let's take sinks as an example. Buying 10 sinks of one style at one go vs 1 sink a month. The same applies to tiles, paint, etc. As for cement, if your needs are greater (10 foundations vs 1) you can order a "mixer" that drops off a lot more at a cheaper rate. http://www.wolgastcorpor...e-works-in-construction BUT your biashara is yours. I wish you the best. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/15/2019 Posts: 677 Location: planet earth
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VituVingiSana wrote:Apart from cement, there are other goods and services one purchases. You can negotiate better rates for these by buying in bulk. Let's take sinks as an example. Buying 10 sinks of one style at one go vs 1 sink a month. The same applies to tiles, paint, etc.As for cement, if your needs are greater (10 foundations vs 1) you can order a "mixer" that drops off a lot more at a cheaper rate. http://www.wolgastcorpor...e-works-in-construction BUT your biashara is yours. I wish you the best. What is the cost savings on 5 sinks for 5 maisonettes assuming one costs 5k and I can save 100 bob per sink by buying all 5 at a go? PEANUTS! This model (economies of scale savings) may work very well in the USA and other developed economies where the customers are gouged big at the retail level anyway (as much as 80% markup) , so there is a huge price differential in wholesale and retail. In Kiinya with our already dirt cheap decent quality goods from crafty Chinaman the margins are already razor thin at the wholesale level so the savings are minuscule. Another thing; I can actually SAVE MORE by building SLOWER and on a smaller scale one project at a time. Why? I have way lower carrying costs compared to a full scale operation using loans to do the same. - interest charges on the loans (as high as 20% p.a!) - overheads for a full time construction crew; labour, food, accommodation (water stima temporary housing) if on site, and so much more - the level of theft increases exponentially the bigger the project (theft can eat up to 50% of your construction cost if you are not careful!) the list is endless. But with my mode of operation I am LIGHT AND QUICK on my feet shwaaaaaaaa, conservative and careful, minimising theft to almost zero, building in stages slowly with no loans which is an almost unbeatable running style (trailing the pack to conserve energy) a la PAUL ERENG!Age and family mellows us all over time
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/8/2008 Posts: 947
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I have witnessed a master. @VVS thank you for showing me the way in dealing with an engaging with internet trolls. You sir are a master!!! @Amorphous ... congratulations. Good job!!
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/1/2007 Posts: 539 Location: Nakuru
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tony stark wrote:I have witnessed a master. @VVS thank you for showing me the way in dealing with an engaging with internet trolls. You sir are a master!!! @Amorphous ... congratulations. Good job!! Very patient man this vvs For investors as a whole, returns decrease as motion increases ~ WB
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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winmak wrote:tony stark wrote:I have witnessed a master. @VVS thank you for showing me the way in dealing with an engaging with internet trolls. You sir are a master!!! @Amorphous ... congratulations. Good job!! Very patient man this vvs Agreed. Requires a lot of patience to engage with square feets of amorphous migunda. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/15/2019 Posts: 677 Location: planet earth
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tony stark wrote:I have witnessed a master. @VVS thank you for showing me the way in dealing with an engaging with internet trolls. You sir are a master!!! @Amorphous ... congratulations. Good job!! Tony you have got to be JOKING Excepting Sparkles, you are the KING of TROLLS apa Wazoo Everybody has a little bit of troll in the them, even VVS ! Although with him he knows when to wisely back down when the heat is too much
TOP TROLLS1. Sparkles (by far) - although he has been behaving lately. It pains him that nobody is interested in his peni mbili, so in order to gain attention on Wazoo, he must latch on to any of its star characters Lets see how long he can last on his own 2. Tony "nimetoka jela juzi " Stark. Hit and run type of trolling ( GUERILLA) 3. amorphous - but only retaliatory 4. Jon Jones (alianza na steam lakini ametulia tulii siku hizi ) 5. Psych..oops I mean Tycho (where did he go?) 6. Mukiri. But when defeated in trolling he goes to lick his wounds for 6 months then returns again with gusto. 7. That guy with a feminine sounding name - nimesahau as his posts are usually not memorable anyway 8. NewMbeca: Likes full frontal assault followed by a redeeming post when cornered Very sneaky fellow this one. Retired trolls: 9. Alphadoti: These days amekimya kiii NIMESEMA!Age and family mellows us all over time
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