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Coronavirus
Dahatre
#1401 Posted : Tuesday, April 28, 2020 3:09:17 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/21/2009
Posts: 602
masukuma wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
masukuma wrote:
BigChick wrote:

No @Masukuma,Kenyans and Africans are not a different species.

However facts on the ground show a trend that is worth some extra study.

Ok,let's reduce our days to March 13th when the Patient Zero was reported.We are on day 45,with 50% required discipline in keeping it at bay.We are still reporting small numbers of infections.I agree the tests are few so fewer numbers.But then again one does not need to be tested to know they are sick(and here I mean with symptoms).We are not having an influx of people with symptoms in hospitals or at home.Neither are we having mass deaths.(God forbid,we are not asking for them)

Yes the infected could be very many out there and we shall only know when they are tested but again I say if one is infected and has no symptoms or has mild symptoms and is able to fight it of over time,what is our worry??

Cases are increasing because more people are getting tested.If we don't test we shall not record new cases but that does not mean no people have been infected.

Yes COVID is highly infectious so let's keep it at bay by following guidelines but if by bad fortune you get it,it will be mild and you will heal.

Covid 19 Tracker Worldometer,of the active cases 97% are mild 3% are serious/critical





Assume that we have 2 overlapping Groups:

Group 1 - the group that has a KNOWN case within. People who 1 person reported themselves and subsequent contacts were traced from them. this group with at least 1 KNOWN person is yielding numbers that range between 0.6% to 2.75% of the samples tested. This is the one Kagwe and co. have been talking to us since 13th March. the total number of people tested in this SUSPECTED GROUP to date is less than 20k.

Group 2: the UNKNOWN group:
You are stating that there is a MUCH MUCH LARGER group that has been here for the last 100+ days. Infections happening, Healing, Dying (and sickness being attributed to something else) - but since the disease does not require the host to acknowledge so that it adjusts its spread behavior to what we expect (3+ people getting infected by each previous infection based on what we know from the disease) it has been spreading without social distancing for 100+ days. Considering virus shedding after infection can last upto 37 days (but the median is around 20 days) - where people can still pass on the virus to others and also test positively HOWEVER somehow these people in this much larger and EXPONENTIALLY growing group have seldomly overlapped with Group 1 in order to spike the number of positive cases? That whatever group we test - we end up with less than 2% of them being infections? Also, for unexplained circumstances - the sick from this have not flooded out hospitals?

Riwry? how plausible is that?

p.s. I am not disputing that there is a UNKNOW group - the question is
1) HOW LONG HAS IT BEEN AROUND?
2) HOW BIG IS IT?
3) HOW DOES IT INTERSECT WITH GROUP 1?

at what point does the invisible start looking like the non-existent?


Finally, we can agree that either the unknown group does not exist or they are not exhibiting any symptoms.
This means either we are winning the war against the invisible enemy or we have reached a ceasefire with the enemy.


We agree about the UNKNOWN - the 8 that were announced to day were part of the UNKNOWN until today. the figure announced tomorrow is part of the UNKNOWN of today. That's clear.
Where we disagree is on the answers to the following cases
1) HOW LONG HAVE THE UNKNOWNS BEEN AROUND?
I see people saying 100+ days. I disagree because of the behavoir of the disease I illustrated (R0=3) in an environment without social distancing. We would have had massive infections by now and these infections would have strayed into the GROUP 2 testing we are doing. We are only getting 1.97% positive cases in that group.
2) HOW BIG IS THIS UNKNOWN GROUP?
This is related to the 'HOW LONG THE UNKNOWNS HAVE BEEN AROUND'. if the UNKNOWNS are a recent introduction when there were social distancing guidelines in place - it's smaller in number. If it was there since Jan - then its much larger - MILLIONS OF PEOPLE. What makes me believe it's a much smaller number than the figures being thrown around is hospitalizations. lets assume it has infected over the last 12 months - 1,000,000 people. it had a 80% mild condition rate and the 20% then had severe manifestation before people started protecting their old. Why didn't we see a spike of old people in hospitals? or people with immunocompromised systems? or diabetes? Remember the Pilot who died? he was 66 and still working. Most of the people who this disease has killed in Kenya have been over 60 years old. in the larger group - wh didn't we see (and still not seeing those people in hospitals)


your explanation is - somehow Africans are not exhibiting any symptoms and are going about living their normal lives... this is of course UNTIL they get caught by the contract tracing routine and added to GROUP 2 then we find they get symptomatic like everyone else.

The only way we would be winning this war would be if we are biologically different (Those Blacks in the US dying prove we are not). My conclusion is that the war is just beginning. We have put measures in place that are actually limiting the spread but we should not legeza Kamba because we thing 'its not affecting us as projected'.

People are really dismissing social distancing and wearing masks - because they are really simple activities. We want to flamboyant actions like spraying the streets with obscure smoky substances. Sorry - this battle is won through simple changes in behavior at an individual level as is happening in Japan or Taiwan.
@masukuma and @Bigchick
I think both of you are more in agreement than you think—Namely that Covid hospitalizations/deaths are the final arbiter of how CV will play out in Kenya/Africa, given the limits of testing.

What we don’t know is why the deaths are lower in Africa than would have been expected (thank God). The public health measures including masks and physical distancing are critical, but do not necessarily explain the lower death rates.

This should not be used to discount the need for public health measures or infer that Africans have a special biology that protects them. The purpose of public health measures are multiple and include slowing down infections, buying time for support systems to be put in place (train, test, prep hcw, hospitals etc).

From the curves Masukuma posted above, you can see that at the end of time X the area under the curve is the same, meaning that the number who die (or are infected when testing is widespread) will be similar with or without public health measures. Its just that the system gets overwhelmed by the sharper curve.
mpobiz
#1402 Posted : Tuesday, April 28, 2020 3:11:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/10/2010
Posts: 2,264
Bigchick wrote:
Shak wrote:
Bigchick wrote:
Shak wrote:
Spike in pneumonia related deaths in Nigeria

I still feel that there's also misreporting on cause of death in Kenya as is happening in Nigeria where there's been a spike in deaths related to pnuemonia.


Misreporting by who?

Do you have some data you can share specifically on pneumonia cases and accompanying deaths in Kenya from March?This would be of concern given that they are said to have common symptoms.

I think this is the kind of info we would like to get from "other" sources" just incase Mutahi is giving us false figures.

And it would be good to compare the figures with previous years data.


I believe I had posted the link on the Kenyan cases earlier. Doctors are yet to confirm however.

https://www.nation.co.ke/news/Sp...09470-yebtk8z/index.html



Thanks.Yes had seen this.The medics need to tell us more now that it's one month later.




There is just no news to report in Africa. The media has resorted to go fishing for stories.

https://youtu.be/V8YVGZyWABk

Just have a look at such a report. When a reporter realizes that its not what he expected why continue with the report? Or the story is about Kenyans panicking over nothing? I just fail to understand why good news is no news and some people being obsessed to see and hear bad news
Politics is just things to keep the people divided and foolish and put your trust in men and none of them can do nothing for you...
Dahatre
#1403 Posted : Tuesday, April 28, 2020 3:39:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/21/2009
Posts: 602
masukuma wrote:


On a separate note: Of course people are working on predictive models are guesstimating when the disease MAY end in different countries.



97% of the worlds cases will have been resolved by the end of May but the rest of the cases will drag on until June.


Djibuti may be one of the first east african countries to go through it and get done by May.

Iran - June


it is EXPECTED that Kenya will delay and the cases will be sorted in July



OF COURSE, THESE ARE PROJECTIONS NOT PROPHESIES.

the Source of these predictions is this Singaporean Company
https://ddi.sutd.edu.sg/

Models are as good as the underlying assumptions. Not being an epidemiologist, I am not even sure some things can be modeled. Learned in my zoom journal club jana that unlike earlier reports, it now seems like this virus has mutated and some strains of the virus are deadlier than others--If true, how do you model mutations?

P/S waiting (hoping/praying) for KEMRI to tell us that we have the less virulent strain...
kaka2za
#1404 Posted : Tuesday, April 28, 2020 4:16:31 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,057
Location: Gwitu
Fact:Fatalities in Africa are far less than was expected.
Reason: matter of conjecture

Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
masukuma
#1405 Posted : Tuesday, April 28, 2020 4:21:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
Dahatre wrote:

Models are as good as the underlying assumptions. Not being an epidemiologist, I am not even sure some things can be modeled. Learned in my zoom journal club jana that unlike earlier reports, it now seems like this virus has mutated and some strains of the virus are deadlier than others--If true, how do you model mutations?

P/S waiting (hoping/praying) for KEMRI to tell us that we have the less virulent strain...

Yes, Models are as good as the underlying assumption and having one global model to try and determine the outcome of how 7 billion people and the various systems they put in place and their relations is not a simple task. The above model is very likely wrong on the dates but its worth looking into and feeding data. It surely beats pulling figures from the top of the head and saying it has infected 1,000,000 people.

On mutations - yes - you cannot model out the outcome of Mutations.

Since Viruses need to execute 3 steps really well in order to go 'viral'
1) infect - a virus has to infect a host
2) replicate - a virus has to use that host's cell replication mechanism to replicate
3) escape the host - the kid viruses have to get out of that host into another host to start step 1 of the new host.

But since they are billions of these viruses around and each time they execute the replication stage there is a chance that they may mutate and each mitation may have one of 3 outcomes on the fate of the kid virus.
1) it may be disavantageous - the virus may lose something it's parent had and cannot infect the cells of the animal its currently on and the body kills it. or may gain some capability to kill off the cells it infect early before it reproduces or may lose the coding that enables it to be spread through the channels the parent used to infect the current host.

2) it may be neutral - a change that does not affect the 3 stages. the host continues behaving the same way and passes on the kid virus to the next host etc. the parent and kid happen to be slightly different

3) it may be advantageos to the virus - it may infect different type of cells and get multiple channels to leave the body. it may change in a way that the immunorespose of the host is no longer able to kill it.

While to my knowledge there are 2 strains -(S and L) of Covid... there are hundreds possibly thousands of mutations of the virus. these minute changes in their genome enable people like the guys running this website
https://nextstrain.org/ncov

track where the virus in a certain country came from. here is an example of how a virus sequence submitted from Egypt relates to other viruses


kaka2za wrote:

Fact: Fatalities in Africa REMAIN far less than was expected.
Reason: matter of conjecture

Don't legeza kamba!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Gathige
#1406 Posted : Tuesday, April 28, 2020 4:24:22 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 2,242
kaka2za wrote:
Fact:Fatalities in Africa are far less than was expected.
Reason: matter of conjecture



Whereas the tested numbers in Africa are still very low, fatalities would have been clearedly identified if there was a major spike in deaths.
"Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
masukuma
#1407 Posted : Tuesday, April 28, 2020 5:13:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
Gathige wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
Fact:Fatalities in Africa are far less than was expected.
Reason: matter of conjecture



Whereas the tested numbers in Africa are still very low, fatalities would have been clearedly identified if there was a major spike in deaths.

Exactly!! I am sure China wasn't testing for Covid at the time they knew something bad was going on. the disease speaks for itself.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
mpobiz
#1408 Posted : Tuesday, April 28, 2020 5:30:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/10/2010
Posts: 2,264
masukuma wrote:
Gathige wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
Fact:Fatalities in Africa are far less than was expected.
Reason: matter of conjecture



Whereas the tested numbers in Africa are still very low, fatalities would have been clearedly identified if there was a major spike in deaths.

Exactly!! I am sure China wasn't testing for Covid at the time they knew something bad was going on. the disease speaks for itself.


Welcome to the club bro. Here we don't do models , projections and we don't deal with curves. Here we deal with vitu kwa ground.
Politics is just things to keep the people divided and foolish and put your trust in men and none of them can do nothing for you...
murchr
#1409 Posted : Tuesday, April 28, 2020 5:49:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Tanganyika continues its night burials



"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
masukuma
#1410 Posted : Tuesday, April 28, 2020 6:55:07 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
mpobiz wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Gathige wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
Fact:Fatalities in Africa are far less than was expected.
Reason: matter of conjecture



Whereas the tested numbers in Africa are still very low, fatalities would have been clearedly identified if there was a major spike in deaths.

Exactly!! I am sure China wasn't testing for Covid at the time they knew something bad was going on. the disease speaks for itself.


Welcome to the club bro. Here we don't do models , projections and we don't deal with curves. Here we deal with vitu kwa ground.


Mwafrika na Kukosa Mipango


You fail to take models into consideration halafu munaingia kila kitu freestyle then things go bad then you say it's God's will or then blame witchcraft, curses, sins, immorality and other things.

Be responsible!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
madollar
#1411 Posted : Tuesday, April 28, 2020 7:23:38 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/17/2009
Posts: 2,038
Location: GA
Gathige
#1412 Posted : Tuesday, April 28, 2020 9:16:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 2,242
masukuma wrote:
mpobiz wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Gathige wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
Fact:Fatalities in Africa are far less than was expected.
Reason: matter of conjecture



Whereas the tested numbers in Africa are still very low, fatalities would have been clearedly identified if there was a major spike in deaths.

Exactly!! I am sure China wasn't testing for Covid at the time they knew something bad was going on. the disease speaks for itself.


Welcome to the club bro. Here we don't do models , projections and we don't deal with curves. Here we deal with vitu kwa ground.


Mwafrika na Kukosa Mipango


You fail to take models into consideration halafu munaingia kila kitu freestyle then things go bad then you say it's God's will or then blame witchcraft, curses, sins, immorality and other things.

Be responsible!



Meanwhile in Lockdown free Stockholm Sweden

"Sweden's national board of health looked at 1,700 cause of death certificates to get a better idea of deaths related to Covid-19.
Their statistics show that 90 per cent of those who died were over 70 and half were over 86, with just one per cent under 50.
Most of those who died had one or more risk factors, including: high blood pressure (79.6 per cent of cases); cardiovascular disease (48.5 per cent of cases); diabetes (29 per cent of cases); lung disease (14.6 per cent).
However, as many as 14.4 per cent of those who died did not have any of the above risk factors"

Looking at the cause of death is a much better barometer of the COVID Scourge rather than mass testing. 85% of the population will wean out of COVID naturally. Wenye kubaki bado watakuwa wengi.
"Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
Gathige
#1413 Posted : Tuesday, April 28, 2020 9:44:51 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 2,242
masukuma wrote:
mpobiz wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Gathige wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
Fact:Fatalities in Africa are far less than was expected.
Reason: matter of conjecture



Whereas the tested numbers in Africa are still very low, fatalities would have been clearedly identified if there was a major spike in deaths.

Exactly!! I am sure China wasn't testing for Covid at the time they knew something bad was going on. the disease speaks for itself.


Welcome to the club bro. Here we don't do models , projections and we don't deal with curves. Here we deal with vitu kwa ground.


Mwafrika na Kukosa Mipango


You fail to take models into consideration halafu munaingia kila kitu freestyle then things go bad then you say it's God's will or then blame witchcraft, curses, sins, immorality and other things.

Be responsible!



Meanwhile in Lockdown free Stockholm Sweden

"Sweden's national board of health looked at 1,700 cause of death certificates to get a better idea of deaths related to Covid-19.
Their statistics show that 90 per cent of those who died were over 70 and half were over 86, with just one per cent under 50.
Most of those who died had one or more risk factors, including: high blood pressure (79.6 per cent of cases); cardiovascular disease (48.5 per cent of cases); diabetes (29 per cent of cases); lung disease (14.6 per cent).
However, as many as 14.4 per cent of those who died did not have any of the above risk factors"

Looking at the cause of death is a much better barometer of the COVID Scourge rather than mass testing. 85% of the population will wean out of COVID naturally. Wenye kubaki bado watakuwa wengi.
"Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
sqft
#1414 Posted : Tuesday, April 28, 2020 10:33:14 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/10/2015
Posts: 961
Location: Kenya
Kumbe Corona, HIV and Ebola are all part of the bigger picture to kill africans and steal their resources.


Proverbs 13:11 Dishonest money dwindles away, but whoever gathers money little by little makes it grow.
masukuma
#1415 Posted : Wednesday, April 29, 2020 8:58:18 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
Gathige wrote:
masukuma wrote:
mpobiz wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Gathige wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
Fact:Fatalities in Africa are far less than was expected.
Reason: matter of conjecture



Whereas the tested numbers in Africa are still very low, fatalities would have been clearedly identified if there was a major spike in deaths.

Exactly!! I am sure China wasn't testing for Covid at the time they knew something bad was going on. the disease speaks for itself.


Welcome to the club bro. Here we don't do models , projections and we don't deal with curves. Here we deal with vitu kwa ground.


Mwafrika na Kukosa Mipango


You fail to take models into consideration halafu munaingia kila kitu freestyle then things go bad then you say it's God's will or then blame witchcraft, curses, sins, immorality and other things.

Be responsible!



Meanwhile in Lockdown free Stockholm Sweden

"Sweden's national board of health looked at 1,700 cause of death certificates to get a better idea of deaths related to Covid-19.
Their statistics show that 90 per cent of those who died were over 70 and half were over 86, with just one per cent under 50.
Most of those who died had one or more risk factors, including: high blood pressure (79.6 per cent of cases); cardiovascular disease (48.5 per cent of cases); diabetes (29 per cent of cases); lung disease (14.6 per cent).
However, as many as 14.4 per cent of those who died did not have any of the above risk factors"

Looking at the cause of death is a much better barometer of the COVID Scourge rather than mass testing. 85% of the population will wean out of COVID naturally. Wenye kubaki bado watakuwa wengi.

Each country is different - the Italians, the Americans the Swedes, Singaporeans,Japanese and even Kenyans. Each country’s demographics are different and people with immunity issues are different. Each country’s response should be based on its own circumstance.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
mnjoro
#1416 Posted : Wednesday, April 29, 2020 9:44:32 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/21/2009
Posts: 573
How are our neighbours doing down there?
sqft
#1417 Posted : Wednesday, April 29, 2020 10:09:44 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/10/2015
Posts: 961
Location: Kenya
masukuma wrote:
Gathige wrote:
masukuma wrote:
mpobiz wrote:
masukuma wrote:
Gathige wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
Fact:Fatalities in Africa are far less than was expected.
Reason: matter of conjecture



Whereas the tested numbers in Africa are still very low, fatalities would have been clearedly identified if there was a major spike in deaths.

Exactly!! I am sure China wasn't testing for Covid at the time they knew something bad was going on. the disease speaks for itself.


Welcome to the club bro. Here we don't do models , projections and we don't deal with curves. Here we deal with vitu kwa ground.


Mwafrika na Kukosa Mipango


You fail to take models into consideration halafu munaingia kila kitu freestyle then things go bad then you say it's God's will or then blame witchcraft, curses, sins, immorality and other things.

Be responsible!



Meanwhile in Lockdown free Stockholm Sweden

"Sweden's national board of health looked at 1,700 cause of death certificates to get a better idea of deaths related to Covid-19.
Their statistics show that 90 per cent of those who died were over 70 and half were over 86, with just one per cent under 50.
Most of those who died had one or more risk factors, including: high blood pressure (79.6 per cent of cases); cardiovascular disease (48.5 per cent of cases); diabetes (29 per cent of cases); lung disease (14.6 per cent).
However, as many as 14.4 per cent of those who died did not have any of the above risk factors"

Looking at the cause of death is a much better barometer of the COVID Scourge rather than mass testing. 85% of the population will wean out of COVID naturally. Wenye kubaki bado watakuwa wengi.

Each country is different - the Italians, the Americans the Swedes, Singaporeans,Japanese and even Kenyans. Each country’s demographics are different and people with immunity issues are different. Each country’s response should be based on its own circumstance.


The swedes see this as an opportunity to get rid of the old pensioners thus no lockdown. Very selfish people these swedes.
Proverbs 13:11 Dishonest money dwindles away, but whoever gathers money little by little makes it grow.
Bigchick
#1418 Posted : Wednesday, April 29, 2020 11:33:39 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/8/2013
Posts: 4,068
Location: At Large.
The swedes see this as an opportunity to get rid of the old pensioners thus no lockdown. Very selfish people these swedes.

Ngai!For real😥

So they want them to go to other pther side to save on pension costs?Very inhuman.
Love is beautiful and so are those who share it.With Love, Marriage is an amazing event in ones life time, the foundation of joy, happiness and success.
Gathige
#1419 Posted : Wednesday, April 29, 2020 11:40:05 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 2,242
mnjoro wrote:
How are our neighbours doing down there?



They have a heavy Chinese influence, so that declare the numbers they want and when they want it. Corona numbers are like a lady's age- You can never be sure.
"Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
Lolest!
#1420 Posted : Wednesday, April 29, 2020 1:13:27 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Ndugu zetu have 196 new cases
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