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Coronavirus
alma1
#1351 Posted : Sunday, April 26, 2020 1:13:33 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,871
Location: hapo
kaka2za wrote:
alma1 wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:
alma1 wrote:
Emotions are high but viruses don't care about your emotions. Hiyo ni shauri yako.

But numbers never lie.

Countries in lockdown have started showing ZERO cases. Australia, New Zealand, Iceland, Vietnam, Uganda, Greece, China etc

Those are facts.

Countries without lockdowns have started showing increasing numbers UK, Sweden, UK, Tanzania etc.

Those are facts.

Countries with mini lockdowns are showing eratic numbers South Africa, Germany, Kenya etc.

Those are facts.


You can continue complaining, posting on Twirra, wazua, whataspp etc. Facts are clear and can't be hidden.

The only question is, will you accept your decision or will you start blaming someone, something or even god and satan for the choices you have made?

Facts are just facts and they can be very very annoying.

stop movement. Stop the virus.


@alma, I think we are getting somewhere. I retreated to the farm in Nyeri and life here is very close to normal. Apart from the closure of hotels, one can hardly notice any difference. At the golf club, the clubhouse is closed and there are no caddies but there are guys playing everyday.

If after another 21 years we still have zero cases in the upcountry counties, then reopening the hotels and bars in those counties would be a reasonable thing to do.


Have you seen Masukuma's chart?

It may seem normal now but what if another lunatic comes to Nyeri today? You guys still playing golf will all get it within the week. And take it to cucu who was busy minding her business.

Kenyan rate is slow coz of the current policies. But Kenyans being what they are, it will only take one fool to get it out there.

In my view, we wasted 21 days with this mini lockdown so that we don't annoy the so called "poor" or the economy. If we had locked down completely, there would have been zero cases in Siaya, and Mandera.

We would now have been like Uganda which is getting zero cases but for teh fools coming from TZ and Kenya. How many people has this fool from Mombasa spread it to?

We are about to waste another 21 days. Uganda will have reopened and Rwanda.

The lull before the storm. Exactly what happened in Italy, Spain and France.

Either Kenyans stick to the process or I shall be the one supporting Uhuru instead of Itumbilets on wazua.


Numbers can lie. The projections for infections and fatalities in Africa have fallen flat.
African streets were expected to be full of bodies by the end of April.
However, I think the number of tests in Africa are so low to authoritatively declare any country covid free.
It is likely that numbers are much higher but what really matters is that hospitals are empty.
Diarrhoea has probably caused more deaths in Africa than corona.



Numbers never lie.

Projections are not meant to be prophesies. Projections are made so that you can make decisions on actions. The projections were valid but they were just that. Projections.

Gov't's changed policies and tact.

So that you don't get to the projections. The fact that the projections are not being hit is a good thing. Not an excuse to say that Africans somehow a special DNA that god only knows.

You have been sent to curfew, reducing the spread.

But its good that this is the feeling amongst the populace. That Corona is nothing. The opposite would have been a disaster. The numbers don't lie. They are right there for you to see. Not to imagine ideas. They are right there.

Numbers are low because there is less spread. That is the only denominator in Covid. Everything else is a story.
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?

masukuma
#1352 Posted : Sunday, April 26, 2020 1:50:22 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
alma1 wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
alma1 wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:
alma1 wrote:
Emotions are high but viruses don't care about your emotions. Hiyo ni shauri yako.

But numbers never lie.

Countries in lockdown have started showing ZERO cases. Australia, New Zealand, Iceland, Vietnam, Uganda, Greece, China etc

Those are facts.

Countries without lockdowns have started showing increasing numbers UK, Sweden, UK, Tanzania etc.

Those are facts.

Countries with mini lockdowns are showing eratic numbers South Africa, Germany, Kenya etc.

Those are facts.


You can continue complaining, posting on Twirra, wazua, whataspp etc. Facts are clear and can't be hidden.

The only question is, will you accept your decision or will you start blaming someone, something or even god and satan for the choices you have made?

Facts are just facts and they can be very very annoying.

stop movement. Stop the virus.


@alma, I think we are getting somewhere. I retreated to the farm in Nyeri and life here is very close to normal. Apart from the closure of hotels, one can hardly notice any difference. At the golf club, the clubhouse is closed and there are no caddies but there are guys playing everyday.

If after another 21 years we still have zero cases in the upcountry counties, then reopening the hotels and bars in those counties would be a reasonable thing to do.


Have you seen Masukuma's chart?

It may seem normal now but what if another lunatic comes to Nyeri today? You guys still playing golf will all get it within the week. And take it to cucu who was busy minding her business.

Kenyan rate is slow coz of the current policies. But Kenyans being what they are, it will only take one fool to get it out there.

In my view, we wasted 21 days with this mini lockdown so that we don't annoy the so called "poor" or the economy. If we had locked down completely, there would have been zero cases in Siaya, and Mandera.

We would now have been like Uganda which is getting zero cases but for teh fools coming from TZ and Kenya. How many people has this fool from Mombasa spread it to?

We are about to waste another 21 days. Uganda will have reopened and Rwanda.

The lull before the storm. Exactly what happened in Italy, Spain and France.

Either Kenyans stick to the process or I shall be the one supporting Uhuru instead of Itumbilets on wazua.


Numbers can lie. The projections for infections and fatalities in Africa have fallen flat.
African streets were expected to be full of bodies by the end of April.
However, I think the number of tests in Africa are so low to authoritatively declare any country covid free.
It is likely that numbers are much higher but what really matters is that hospitals are empty.
Diarrhoea has probably caused more deaths in Africa than corona.



Numbers never lie.

Projections are not meant to be prophesies. Projections are made so that you can make decisions on actions. The projections were valid but they were just that. Projections.

Gov't's changed policies and tact.

So that you don't get to the projections. The fact that the projections are not being hit is a good thing. Not an excuse to say that Africans somehow a special DNA that god only knows.

You have been sent to curfew, reducing the spread.

But its good that this is the feeling amongst the populace. That Corona is nothing. The opposite would have been a disaster. The numbers don't lie. They are right there for you to see. Not to imagine ideas. They are right there.

Numbers are low because there is less spread. That is the only denominator in Covid. Everything else is a story.



Our people have a dangerous worldview, a very fatalistic worldview. When we go to a witchdoctor, a wizard, a palm reader, a prophet or prophetess and they immediately give you what your future is to be. it's YOUR FUTURE. Nothing can change it. When your future does not become as it was prophesied - people the say the wizard, witchdoctor,palm reader, prophet/prophetess was a fake one! Remember this one?


Projections say - HOLDING ALL THINGS CONSTANT... this will be the outcome. if no controls are put in place - expect this. simple things like washing hands, wearing masks, practicing social distancing etc. don't feel like much but they cut down the numbers drastically. The biggest issue is when people mistake simple measures and innoculus measures. because so far most people are required to do very little they think that the very little is very useless. Echoing @alma - not meeting projections is a good thing - it shows you did something... don't dismiss these projections - they are cautionary in nature.
Don't legeza kamba...
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
kaka2za
#1353 Posted : Sunday, April 26, 2020 2:19:07 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,058
Location: Gwitu
Reading the above is encouraging
It means Africa has taken more strict measures than the rest of the world .
That is a lie. A white lie.
Social distancing in the slums is an impossibility. Western nations practice as a normal way of life.
The measures we have taken are no different to measures taken by other countries in Europe or even Iran yet their numbers are high.
Let’s practice caution but I still insist that there is something that the numbers are not telling us.
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
Angelica _ann
#1354 Posted : Sunday, April 26, 2020 2:21:40 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,937
masukuma wrote:
alma1 wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
alma1 wrote:
FRM2011 wrote:
alma1 wrote:
Emotions are high but viruses don't care about your emotions. Hiyo ni shauri yako.

But numbers never lie.

Countries in lockdown have started showing ZERO cases. Australia, New Zealand, Iceland, Vietnam, Uganda, Greece, China etc

Those are facts.

Countries without lockdowns have started showing increasing numbers UK, Sweden, UK, Tanzania etc.

Those are facts.

Countries with mini lockdowns are showing eratic numbers South Africa, Germany, Kenya etc.

Those are facts.


You can continue complaining, posting on Twirra, wazua, whataspp etc. Facts are clear and can't be hidden.

The only question is, will you accept your decision or will you start blaming someone, something or even god and satan for the choices you have made?

Facts are just facts and they can be very very annoying.

stop movement. Stop the virus.


@alma, I think we are getting somewhere. I retreated to the farm in Nyeri and life here is very close to normal. Apart from the closure of hotels, one can hardly notice any difference. At the golf club, the clubhouse is closed and there are no caddies but there are guys playing everyday.

If after another 21 years we still have zero cases in the upcountry counties, then reopening the hotels and bars in those counties would be a reasonable thing to do.


Have you seen Masukuma's chart?

It may seem normal now but what if another lunatic comes to Nyeri today? You guys still playing golf will all get it within the week. And take it to cucu who was busy minding her business.

Kenyan rate is slow coz of the current policies. But Kenyans being what they are, it will only take one fool to get it out there.

In my view, we wasted 21 days with this mini lockdown so that we don't annoy the so called "poor" or the economy. If we had locked down completely, there would have been zero cases in Siaya, and Mandera.

We would now have been like Uganda which is getting zero cases but for teh fools coming from TZ and Kenya. How many people has this fool from Mombasa spread it to?

We are about to waste another 21 days. Uganda will have reopened and Rwanda.

The lull before the storm. Exactly what happened in Italy, Spain and France.

Either Kenyans stick to the process or I shall be the one supporting Uhuru instead of Itumbilets on wazua.


Numbers can lie. The projections for infections and fatalities in Africa have fallen flat.
African streets were expected to be full of bodies by the end of April.
However, I think the number of tests in Africa are so low to authoritatively declare any country covid free.
It is likely that numbers are much higher but what really matters is that hospitals are empty.
Diarrhoea has probably caused more deaths in Africa than corona.



Numbers never lie.

Projections are not meant to be prophesies. Projections are made so that you can make decisions on actions. The projections were valid but they were just that. Projections.

Gov't's changed policies and tact.

So that you don't get to the projections. The fact that the projections are not being hit is a good thing. Not an excuse to say that Africans somehow a special DNA that god only knows.

You have been sent to curfew, reducing the spread.

But its good that this is the feeling amongst the populace. That Corona is nothing. The opposite would have been a disaster. The numbers don't lie. They are right there for you to see. Not to imagine ideas. They are right there.

Numbers are low because there is less spread. That is the only denominator in Covid. Everything else is a story.



Our people have a dangerous worldview, a very fatalistic worldview. When we go to a witchdoctor, a wizard, a palm reader, a prophet or prophetess and they immediately give you what your future is to be. it's YOUR FUTURE. Nothing can change it. When your future does not become as it was prophesied - people the say the wizard, witchdoctor,palm reader, prophet/prophetess was a fake one! Remember this one?


Projections say - HOLDING ALL THINGS CONSTANT... this will be the outcome. if no controls are put in place - expect this. simple things like washing hands, wearing masks, practicing social distancing etc. don't feel like much but they cut down the numbers drastically. The biggest issue is when people mistake simple measures and innoculus measures. because so far most people are required to do very little they think that the very little is very useless. Echoing @alma - not meeting projections is a good thing - it shows you did something... don't dismiss these projections - they are cautionary in nature.
Don't legeza kamba...


I was i proponent of curfew, controlled movement and even lockdown until i realized the government is not playing its part _ still allowing movement. We are headed nowhere with the Gava laxity on implementation of its own guidelines and laws. The almost 2 months are wasted time, let us compare notes on 15th May on the much that would have been achieved by then.
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
mpobiz
#1355 Posted : Sunday, April 26, 2020 2:27:07 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 8/10/2010
Posts: 2,265
For anyone still singing the cases song. You are free to continue counting them . Cases can even reach 1m. But remember this is Africa. Infected cases don't matter to us. What matters is hospitalized cases and deaths. So far it's close to 0%.

Something else to ponder about is that its not only the Chinese who eat bats or other strange animals.very many African cultures do the same. So I am sure the same way we Africans have encounterd the Ebola virus. we have encountered covid long before the world discovered it. but since to us it exhibits mild symptoms. nobody cares and nobody reports. Life goes on.
Politics is just things to keep the people divided and foolish and put your trust in men and none of them can do nothing for you...
masukuma
#1356 Posted : Sunday, April 26, 2020 3:04:01 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
kaka2za wrote:
Reading the above is encouraging
It means Africa has taken more strict measures than the rest of the world .
That is a lie. A white lie.
Social distancing in the slums is an impossibility. Western nations practice as a normal way of life.
The measures we have taken are no different to measures taken by other countries in Europe or even Iran yet their numbers are high.
Let’s practice caution but I still insist that there is something that the numbers are not telling us.


Understand that the disease is not spontaneous!! it does not start from nothing and jump on people who are not practicing social distancing.
People in Kibera could be all sleeping on each other but without a single case going there - it would not have infected them.
Measures work to prevent disease first in places WHERE THE DISEASE IS PRESENT remember Unlike white people's countries in Africa this disease was brought in by people who don't live in those places like Kibera.
It also happens that the people who would bring it in are a bit better at listening to what GOK is saying - remember case 1? she felt the symptoms and she took herself to the Government. The problem of having it living too much in our population is that it now strays from these people to the people you don't want it to land in. Consider the Kenya Ports Authority Cluster - one person comes from abroad and they don't contain it and now people like truck drivers who then give it to restaurant attendants and hookers in Voi, Mtito, Sultan Hamud, Salga, Kikopey start picking it! then it blows up...


There is an aspect of time WHEN THE MEASURES WERE PUT IN PLACE.
Again Consider this visualization


if all the second lot of infections practiced social distances - the disease is snuffed at that point. As time goes by it becomes much more difficult to contain it. because first you have 3 people to ensure follow the guidelines - if they don't then 9 in the next cycle. if not - 27 have to comply. if not 81 have to comply. The later you implement these guidelines - the less the effect of the measures. Italy reported it's first case on 31st January but put in place lockdown on March 8. Uganda placed restrictions on 18 March and they only reported their first case on the 20th of March.

We are at the cusp of that happening! those 5 drivers who drove all the way from the coast to UG imply that we have a problem on our hands. if we have clusters in the stops where these drivers stop - we will have lost the game. I know we are never told this by our parents or teachers - YOUR ACTIONS CHANGE THE FUTURE. Africans are used to sliding through life and whatever happens, happens. In this case, SIMPLE ACTIONS will change our outcome.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
kaka2za
#1357 Posted : Sunday, April 26, 2020 3:15:50 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,058
Location: Gwitu
masukuma wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
Reading the above is encouraging
It means Africa has taken more strict measures than the rest of the world .
That is a lie. A white lie.
Social distancing in the slums is an impossibility. Western nations practice as a normal way of life.
The measures we have taken are no different to measures taken by other countries in Europe or even Iran yet their numbers are high.
Let’s practice caution but I still insist that there is something that the numbers are not telling us.


Understand that the disease is not spontaneous!! it does not start from nothing and jump on people who are not practicing social distancing.
People in Kibera could be all sleeping on each other but without a single case going there - it would not have infected them.
Measures work to prevent disease first in places WHERE THE DISEASE IS PRESENT remember Unlike white people's countries in Africa this disease was brought in by people who don't live in those places like Kibera.
It also happens that the people who would bring it in are a bit better at listening to what GOK is saying - remember case 1? she felt the symptoms and she took herself to the Government. The problem of having it living too much in our population is that it now strays from these people to the people you don't want it to land in. Consider the Kenya Ports Authority Cluster - one person comes from abroad and they don't contain it and now people like truck drivers who then give it to restaurant attendants and hookers in Voi, Mtito, Sultan Hamud, Salga, Kikopey start picking it! then it blows up...

There is an aspect of time WHEN THE MEASURES WERE PUT IN PLACE.
Again Consider this visualization


if all the second lot of infections practiced social distances - the disease is snuffed at that point. As time goes by it becomes much more difficult to contain it. because first you have 3 people to ensure follow the guidelines - if they don't then 9 in the next cycle. if not - 27 have to comply. if not 81 have to comply. The later you implement these guidelines - the less the effect of the measures. Italy reported it's first case on 31st January but put in place lockdown on March 8. Uganda placed restrictions on 18 March and they only reported their first case on the 20th of March.

We are at the cusp of that happening! those 5 drivers who drove all the way from the coast to UG imply that we have a problem on our hands. if we have clusters in the stops where these drivers stop - we will have lost the game.


Do you really believe there is no Corona in Kibera?

We are barely testing. Just scratching the surface that is why I think the data about infection numbers is unreliable. The real indicator is people with symptoms. Ecuador numbers looked good but when bodies started dropping the had to revise testing strategy and the numbers rose to over 22,000
See the data below on tests per 1M population:
Kenya -325
Uganda-444
Germany-24,738

Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
masukuma
#1358 Posted : Sunday, April 26, 2020 3:33:04 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
kaka2za wrote:
masukuma wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
Reading the above is encouraging
It means Africa has taken more strict measures than the rest of the world .
That is a lie. A white lie.
Social distancing in the slums is an impossibility. Western nations practice as a normal way of life.
The measures we have taken are no different to measures taken by other countries in Europe or even Iran yet their numbers are high.
Let’s practice caution but I still insist that there is something that the numbers are not telling us.


Understand that the disease is not spontaneous!! it does not start from nothing and jump on people who are not practicing social distancing.
People in Kibera could be all sleeping on each other but without a single case going there - it would not have infected them.
Measures work to prevent disease first in places WHERE THE DISEASE IS PRESENT remember Unlike white people's countries in Africa this disease was brought in by people who don't live in those places like Kibera.
It also happens that the people who would bring it in are a bit better at listening to what GOK is saying - remember case 1? she felt the symptoms and she took herself to the Government. The problem of having it living too much in our population is that it now strays from these people to the people you don't want it to land in. Consider the Kenya Ports Authority Cluster - one person comes from abroad and they don't contain it and now people like truck drivers who then give it to restaurant attendants and hookers in Voi, Mtito, Sultan Hamud, Salga, Kikopey start picking it! then it blows up...

There is an aspect of time WHEN THE MEASURES WERE PUT IN PLACE.
Again Consider this visualization


if all the second lot of infections practiced social distances - the disease is snuffed at that point. As time goes by it becomes much more difficult to contain it. because first you have 3 people to ensure follow the guidelines - if they don't then 9 in the next cycle. if not - 27 have to comply. if not 81 have to comply. The later you implement these guidelines - the less the effect of the measures. Italy reported it's first case on 31st January but put in place lockdown on March 8. Uganda placed restrictions on 18 March and they only reported their first case on the 20th of March.

We are at the cusp of that happening! those 5 drivers who drove all the way from the coast to UG imply that we have a problem on our hands. if we have clusters in the stops where these drivers stop - we will have lost the game.


Do you really believe there is no Corona in Kibera?

We are barely testing. Just scratching the surface that is why I think the data about infection numbers is unreliable. The real indicator is people with symptoms. Ecuador numbers looked good but when bodies started dropping the had to revise testing strategy and the numbers rose to over 22,000
See the data below on tests per 1M population:
Kenya -325
Uganda-444
Germany-24,738



I did not say we don’t have Corona in Kibera - I said their compliance to social distancing would mean nothing if the disease is not there. The official figures have a couple of cases there. Has it been snuffed out at the root? I don’t know! We will have to wait and see. But until then practice social distancing. Testing is someone else’s responsibility- yours is social distancing. How many tests did Taiwan conduct? While testing shows you how had your situation is Social Distancing reduces the bite of the disease.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
thuks
#1359 Posted : Sunday, April 26, 2020 4:23:57 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/8/2008
Posts: 1,575
masukuma wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
masukuma wrote:
kaka2za wrote:
Reading the above is encouraging
It means Africa has taken more strict measures than the rest of the world .
That is a lie. A white lie.
Social distancing in the slums is an impossibility. Western nations practice as a normal way of life.
The measures we have taken are no different to measures taken by other countries in Europe or even Iran yet their numbers are high.
Let’s practice caution but I still insist that there is something that the numbers are not telling us.


Understand that the disease is not spontaneous!! it does not start from nothing and jump on people who are not practicing social distancing.
People in Kibera could be all sleeping on each other but without a single case going there - it would not have infected them.
Measures work to prevent disease first in places WHERE THE DISEASE IS PRESENT remember Unlike white people's countries in Africa this disease was brought in by people who don't live in those places like Kibera.
It also happens that the people who would bring it in are a bit better at listening to what GOK is saying - remember case 1? she felt the symptoms and she took herself to the Government. The problem of having it living too much in our population is that it now strays from these people to the people you don't want it to land in. Consider the Kenya Ports Authority Cluster - one person comes from abroad and they don't contain it and now people like truck drivers who then give it to restaurant attendants and hookers in Voi, Mtito, Sultan Hamud, Salga, Kikopey start picking it! then it blows up...

There is an aspect of time WHEN THE MEASURES WERE PUT IN PLACE.
Again Consider this visualization


if all the second lot of infections practiced social distances - the disease is snuffed at that point. As time goes by it becomes much more difficult to contain it. because first you have 3 people to ensure follow the guidelines - if they don't then 9 in the next cycle. if not - 27 have to comply. if not 81 have to comply. The later you implement these guidelines - the less the effect of the measures. Italy reported it's first case on 31st January but put in place lockdown on March 8. Uganda placed restrictions on 18 March and they only reported their first case on the 20th of March.

We are at the cusp of that happening! those 5 drivers who drove all the way from the coast to UG imply that we have a problem on our hands. if we have clusters in the stops where these drivers stop - we will have lost the game.


Do you really believe there is no Corona in Kibera?

We are barely testing. Just scratching the surface that is why I think the data about infection numbers is unreliable. The real indicator is people with symptoms. Ecuador numbers looked good but when bodies started dropping the had to revise testing strategy and the numbers rose to over 22,000
See the data below on tests per 1M population:
Kenya -325
Uganda-444
Germany-24,738



I did not say we don’t have Corona in Kibera - I said their compliance to social distancing would mean nothing if the disease is not there. The official figures have a couple of cases there. Has it been snuffed out at the root? I don’t know! We will have to wait and see. But until then practice social distancing. Testing is someone else’s responsibility- yours is social distancing. How many tests did Taiwan conduct? While testing shows you how had your situation is Social Distancing reduces the bite of the disease.

According to WHO, a positive rate for tests done which is less than 9% is a good indication of adequate testing. Kenya has less than 2% positive test results
I care!
madollar
#1360 Posted : Sunday, April 26, 2020 6:16:33 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/17/2009
Posts: 2,040
Location: GA
Pale twitter ni kama hapa:

NYC has had 11,000 Covid deaths.

Tokyo, the World's largest and densest city, has had 93.

NYC is locked down.

Tokyo was never locked down.

Both have had the virus for the same amount of time.

Why is NYC's death rate 250 times higher than Tokyo's?

Something fishy here.

https://twitter.com/officialmcafee/status/1254187423011045385

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