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Coronavirus
murchr
#701 Posted : Tuesday, March 31, 2020 2:51:18 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Quote:
A limited emergency-use authorization for two antimalarial drugs touted as game-changers by President Donald Trump has been issued by the US Food and Drug Administration to treat coronavirus patients.


Donated by German companies Sandoz and Bayer. Just a loud though, could Germany be using the drug hence the small number of deaths reported?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
tycho
#702 Posted : Tuesday, March 31, 2020 4:40:39 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
mpobiz wrote:
I have been trying to localize this coversation in vein. Every time I enter this thread there is a profet of Doom still counting bodies in Italy or more recently trying to predict the next week's deaths here in this country.. The other one is just upset that there is no more reggae.
Why can't we just try to hypothesize more on some events that are happening around us.
1. This outbreak has been here for 4 months now. Our first known case is now 3 weeks old now. When you look at the kitui case and the embakasi case both being priests reveals that that this disease might have landed earlier than we thought.
2.in UK there were even airport baggage hundlers and airport staff had caught the virus. How many of our staff are victims? Did the government concentrated more on the arriving passangers and forgot that customs ,immigration staff, cleaners etc also needed screening?
3.we now have an official recoverd case and I now hear of 3more on the way.
We are also recording of many close contacts of victims who have tested negative.
Then I come across something called herd immunity. Some coutries in Europe adopted it but some like UK have back tracked .
Are we experiencing herd immunity without a pre planned strategy to deal with this virus?
Let's be local and try to seek some local solutions while we discover local ways to deal with this thing.
I was amazed to see someone here suggest that rivatex or the factory in kitui produce protective gear only to hear the head of medical services echoe the same.


@Mpobiz,

1. It is probable that we may have developed 'herd immunity' especially if we have reason to believe the virus started spreading earlier than our first confirmed case.

However, we may not know if thus is the case if we don't have: (a) An accurate simulation of the spread of the virus and hypothesis that describes the symptoms being described by confirmed cases and (b) Serological tests confirming the presence of herd immunity.

Such confirmation of hypotheses is best done if we can have dedicated teams working round the clock to confirm that this is so.

We also need to work on many datasets from different countries to determine if what we seem to be experiencing is unique or other countries are sharing it.

I don't know whether this would be wise to do without first taking preemptive measures that assume that we are just as susceptible as the worst case scenario around.

Our local case is similar to the Swedish experience. Two days ago I asked a Swedish friend whether he had taken any tests, and he said: "Not Sweden, we are not taking much precaution ..if it is stupid or good remains to be seen".

Then a day later, the guardian reported: https://www.theguardian.com/international

So, it is also possible that Kenya isn't out of the model describing most country's experience of the virus and that we are all converging towards a common trend.
tycho
#703 Posted : Tuesday, March 31, 2020 4:53:37 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
Quote:
A limited emergency-use authorization for two antimalarial drugs touted as game-changers by President Donald Trump has been issued by the US Food and Drug Administration to treat coronavirus patients.


Donated by German companies Sandoz and Bayer. Just a loud though, could Germany be using the drug hence the small number of deaths reported?


The possibility can't be discounted. For example, the Japanese have been using a drug they made for influenza in the year 2014, that has had encouraging results.

Trump wanted a vaccine being made by the Germans for 'exclusive' use by his country...

This makes it highly likely that Germany could be using a drug or a combination of drugs for their patients.

Each country is using what it can. Dependence on a standard response may not be the norm.
Bigchick
#704 Posted : Tuesday, March 31, 2020 6:43:23 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/8/2013
Posts: 4,068
Location: At Large.
Shak wrote:
limanika wrote:
murchr wrote:
[quote=limanika]BCG- I hear comparison of data btw BCG vaccinating and non BCG vaccinating countries is generating a lot of interest?



Highlight it here

https://m.khaleejtimes.c...to-fight-covid-19-study[/quote]
Interesting. Europe and the US do not have mandatory BCG vaccination but most African countries do



Interesting read that could give hope and explain our low numbers this far.

ION,the governments model that suggests 10,000 by end of April is based on which model?Are our circumstances the same?

I will not argue with the experts but my simple analysis tells me NO.We shall not get there.

Week 1 of April is 4 days from now....and from the daily briefings,the government is working on about 100 samples daily of which less than 10 test positive so by Friday we should be talking of another 50 Max giving us 100.

My other simple reasoning is we do not need testing to know things are getting messy,we would be hearing of masses being admitted or visiting hospitals or self medicating or dying with the COVID 19 symptoms.

I remain optimistic as I play my role in the best way possible.

God bless🇰🇪


Love is beautiful and so are those who share it.With Love, Marriage is an amazing event in ones life time, the foundation of joy, happiness and success.
Bigchick
#705 Posted : Tuesday, March 31, 2020 6:50:25 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/8/2013
Posts: 4,068
Location: At Large.
Meanwhile we have some great Wazuans missing in action.They are behaving like our Politicians who took a back seat and left us to fight on our own.

Our Doctors where are you?Thimioni where are you?Obiero wachana na stocks,come here.Washiku?McReagge?

Then once upon a time we had q man called Mawinder.


Love is beautiful and so are those who share it.With Love, Marriage is an amazing event in ones life time, the foundation of joy, happiness and success.
tycho
#706 Posted : Tuesday, March 31, 2020 7:13:02 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
If there are reasonable grounds for optimism, then let's get back to normal life.

Boredom and frustration are beginning to creep in. A company executive and friend is tired of working from home, a member of the middle-class was complaining about getting her work up, ten year old boys are now collecting plastic and metal, construction workers now bask near where I am residing with dry lips...

I have become edgy about even buying a 1/- biscuit for fear of being robbed, or poisoned out of envy.
tycho
#707 Posted : Tuesday, March 31, 2020 7:38:50 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
P.S. When I check at the stats on worldometers I see Kenya reported it first case on March 12. If this is true, and today is 30th March - at least weeks later and the no. of cases is 50, then the optimism may be misplaced.

The norm for most countries, eg. the US, has been to spend like a whole month with very few cases, on a plateau. The numbers in the American graph begin to rise to double digits after a month or so.

Venezuela reported the first case on March 12 and has 129 cases and 3 deaths.

The reasons we may be having for optimism may fail to be statistically significant.
tycho
#708 Posted : Tuesday, March 31, 2020 7:59:30 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
My suspicion is this: this virus depends on a threshold value to take off. This threshold value is affected/determined by the operating context, culture, and movement patterns, and probably threshold values of exposure.

These factors may explain the differences of case numbers in each country.

Maybe Kenyans don't move around much on average compared to Spaniards, or Italians.

That is, there may be abatement factors that vary with countries, which will either tend to delay or accelerate a take off in infections.
Shak
#709 Posted : Tuesday, March 31, 2020 8:27:21 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/22/2009
Posts: 2,449
Location: Africa
tycho wrote:
My suspicion is this: this virus depends on a threshold value to take off. This threshold value is affected/determined by the operating context, culture, and movement patterns, and probably threshold values of exposure.

These factors may explain the differences of case numbers in each country.

Maybe Kenyans don't move around much on average compared to Spaniards, or Italians.

That is, there may be abatement factors that vary with countries, which will either tend to delay or accelerate a take off in infections.

You are right @tycho. In Europe for example, football played a big role in the spread. Masses of people travelled between countries to watch their teams play in the various European leagues
wukan
#710 Posted : Tuesday, March 31, 2020 9:05:03 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,588
madollar wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
wukan wrote:
Quite a lot of guys on twitter are talking about some very bad/abnormal flu in early February. Did anyone here experience it?

Mine was bad I had a headache and took a day off to bask in the sun.

My colleague had this flu in Jan and I got it early Feb

Cough, Flu, headache

Americans had it(from tweets I've seen) Nov-Dec '19

No deaths were reported at the time given that corona mortality rate is high at certain age group someone would have noticed


See I told there was something that visited us in early Feb. to paraphrase Gen Paton if everyone is thinking the same thing somebody is not thinking

Quote:
Data from the National Registry of Diseases shows that when Kenya reported the first case of coronavirus on March 13, there was a spike in pneumonia, one of the complications of severe Covid-19.

From January up until early February, the number of pneumonia cases were 137,667 before a dramatic increase to 195,504. While the data for March is not complete, a source at the Ministry of Health suspects that the numbers are still increasing.

The pattern — an increase from January and then a plateau — is not similar for the same period in 2019.
https://www.nation.co.ke...9470-yebtk8z/index.html
tycho
#711 Posted : Tuesday, March 31, 2020 9:07:02 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Shak wrote:
tycho wrote:
My suspicion is this: this virus depends on a threshold value to take off. This threshold value is affected/determined by the operating context, culture, and movement patterns, and probably threshold values of exposure.

These factors may explain the differences of case numbers in each country.

Maybe Kenyans don't move around much on average compared to Spaniards, or Italians.

That is, there may be abatement factors that vary with countries, which will either tend to delay or accelerate a take off in infections.

You are right @tycho. In Europe for example, football played a big role in the spread. Masses of people travelled between countries to watch their teams play in the various European leagues


If this is true, then a little work can tell us where the virus is hiding to reasonable accuracy, and we can outwit, and probably contain it indefinitely at less cost.
muandiwambeu
#712 Posted : Tuesday, March 31, 2020 9:19:24 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/28/2015
Posts: 1,247
mpobiz wrote:
I have been trying to localize this coversation in vein. Every time I enter this thread there is a profet of Doom still counting bodies in Italy or more recently trying to predict the next week's deaths here in this country.. The other one is just upset that there is no more reggae.
Why can't we just try to hypothesize more on some events that are happening around us.
1. This outbreak has been here for 4 months now. Our first known case is now 3 weeks old now. When you look at the kitui case and the embakasi case both being priests reveals that that this disease might have landed earlier than we thought.
2.in UK there were even airport baggage hundlers and airport staff had caught the virus. How many of our staff are victims? Did the government concentrated more on the arriving passangers and forgot that customs ,immigration staff, cleaners etc also needed screening?
3.we now have an official recoverd case and I now hear of 3more on the way.
We are also recording of many close contacts of victims who have tested negative.
Then I come across something called herd immunity. Some coutries in Europe adopted it but some like UK have back tracked .
Are we experiencing herd immunity without a pre planned strategy to deal with this virus?
Let's be local and try to seek some local solutions while we discover local ways to deal with this thing.
I was amazed to see someone here suggest that rivatex or the factory in kitui produce protective gear only to hear the head of medical services echoe the same.

Our country has been fighting off establishment of a critical mass. Thus a nucleus has not been established before. But it seams that we are almost there now. That's the bases for projections being churned out now, implying a likelihood of things going out of hand( moderate worst case scenario)

I. In China this happened under the radar in Huwan! Huwan was cut off but the stray bullets continued wreeking havoc within and without case in study kenya, leizez faire country or 9th province of china
2.In kenya, social disconnect and unpreparedness to deal with social disasters will compound the problem
3. Lack of resources will be evidenced by logarithmic growth.
4. Social, economic and physical chracter will be Keen to enhance pe etration and hamper management

5. Lack of social disaster preparedness will exercabate the situation.

Go home and sleep atleast. Avoid unnecessary social contact.
,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
Spikes
#713 Posted : Tuesday, March 31, 2020 9:56:45 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/20/2015
Posts: 2,811
Location: Mombasa
Bigchick wrote:
Shak wrote:
limanika wrote:
murchr wrote:
[quote=limanika]BCG- I hear comparison of data btw BCG vaccinating and non BCG vaccinating countries is generating a lot of interest?



Highlight it here

https://m.khaleejtimes.c...to-fight-covid-19-study[/quote]
Interesting. Europe and the US do not have mandatory BCG vaccination but most African countries do



Interesting read that could give hope and explain our low numbers this far.

ION,the governments model that suggests 10,000 by end of April is based on which model?Are our circumstances the same?

I will not argue with the experts but my simple analysis tells me NO.We shall not get there.

Week 1 of April is 4 days from now....and from the daily briefings,the government is working on about 100 samples daily of which less than 10 test positive so by Friday we should be talking of another 50 Max giving us 100.

My other simple reasoning is we do not need testing to know things are getting messy,we would be hearing of masses being admitted or visiting hospitals or self medicating or dying with the COVID 19 symptoms.

I remain optimistic as I play my role in the best way possible.

God bless🇰🇪




Kenya is on lag phase and based on the behavior of this novel virus in other countries, it is projected that we may experience exponential growth of positive cases in one week or so from now. However, we remain hopeful that things gonna be alright as long as we observe social distancing rule and that the last couple of days the virus did not spread rapidly among the population.
John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
tycho
#714 Posted : Tuesday, March 31, 2020 10:13:15 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
So let me update myself on how the virus behaves, and what we see graphically.

When starting in any given region, the virus starts with a reproduction number of 1.5 and we see the slow number of new cases. Then something happens and the reproduction number rises to 2 and takeoff happens.

Somewhere along the climb, the reproduction number rises towards a higher value and we wring our hands and only wait for God.

After around R0 3.5 we get the peak. Then the virus loses power towards 1.5 again.

1. The virus could be processing information from its surrounding

2. The virus can be said to have a goal that may be undetermined...

3. Maybe, we can have a conversation with the virus

Anyway, I know this maybe forbidden territory for many. I pause there to reflect on my words. And you can share your thoughts...
aemathenge
#715 Posted : Tuesday, March 31, 2020 10:22:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
The Government, and therefore, The People of Kenia have put up an A-Team.

What Can We Do To Assist?

Here is a link to an article introducing the A-Team

https://www.the-star.co....ed-to-fight-coronavirus/
Spikes
#716 Posted : Tuesday, March 31, 2020 10:25:27 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/20/2015
Posts: 2,811
Location: Mombasa
tycho wrote:
So let me update myself on how the virus behaves, and what we see graphically.

When starting in any given region, the virus starts with a reproduction number of 1.5 and we see the slow number of new cases. Then something happens and the reproduction number rises to 2 and takeoff happens.

Somewhere along the climb, the reproduction number rises towards a higher value and we wring our hands and only wait for God.

After around R0 3.5 we get the peak. Then the virus loses power towards 1.5 again.

1. The virus could be processing information from its surrounding

2. The virus can be said to have a goal that may be undetermined...

3. Maybe, we can have a conversation with the virus

Anyway, I know this maybe forbidden territory for many. I pause there to reflect on my words. And you can share your thoughts...


Kwani hii virus ina behave kama mtu?
John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
tycho
#717 Posted : Tuesday, March 31, 2020 10:36:15 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
We can consider a virus as an autonomous agent. Please check on Yoav Shoham's 'Agent oriented modeling'. There are conditions for making the virus an agent.

There maybe a scientific model we can use to deal with this virus and gain advantage and a short cut.
Dahatre
#718 Posted : Tuesday, March 31, 2020 12:21:48 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/21/2009
Posts: 602
tycho wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
This part is not getting enough attention
Nation wrote:
Ministry of Health Director General Dr Patrick Amoth said their preliminary modelling data showed that coronavirus cases by mid-April will hit 5,000, and rise to 10,000 by end of April in the absence of drastic intervention.


A model based on conditions stated above - absence of drastic intervention and SARS-Cov-2 being taken to have a Reproduction no. of 2 can be represented by a tree diagram. You can take a piece of paper or any suitable method and trace the spread of the virus.

Let's also assume that each person goes to four unique places on any day. Then that individual will spread to 2^3. We can then assume that after spreading to 2^3 people that individual is isolated and gives zero infection. Same for the next person, like that... How long would we need to get 5000 people infected?

Then compare that number to the span of days counted by the government official. Then please share the answer we see if the figures provided can tally with such a model...

This is a rather simple model because once you do 2^3 you get quarantined. A truly unabated case would be quite complex in terms of the spreader getting to new places and infecting everyday till the whole population is covered.

So please let's try the simple model and see if the figures we find will tally with the ones given.
You are a better mathematician than I, But simple models may not cut it. Epidemiologists/mathematicians use stochastic models that allow one to adapt the models to a particular situation (healthcare capacity, co-existing illnesses, economic conditions, demographics etc) to inform decisions. I am assuming this is what Dr. Amoth's team used to inform the 3-week total lockdown that is being contemplated even though I have heard that that is fake news...
tycho
#719 Posted : Tuesday, March 31, 2020 12:44:20 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Dahatre wrote:
tycho wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
This part is not getting enough attention
Nation wrote:
Ministry of Health Director General Dr Patrick Amoth said their preliminary modelling data showed that coronavirus cases by mid-April will hit 5,000, and rise to 10,000 by end of April in the absence of drastic intervention.


A model based on conditions stated above - absence of drastic intervention and SARS-Cov-2 being taken to have a Reproduction no. of 2 can be represented by a tree diagram. You can take a piece of paper or any suitable method and trace the spread of the virus.

Let's also assume that each person goes to four unique places on any day. Then that individual will spread to 2^3. We can then assume that after spreading to 2^3 people that individual is isolated and gives zero infection. Same for the next person, like that... How long would we need to get 5000 people infected?

Then compare that number to the span of days counted by the government official. Then please share the answer we see if the figures provided can tally with such a model...

This is a rather simple model because once you do 2^3 you get quarantined. A truly unabated case would be quite complex in terms of the spreader getting to new places and infecting everyday till the whole population is covered.

So please let's try the simple model and see if the figures we find will tally with the ones given.
You are a better mathematician than I, But simple models may not cut it. Epidemiologists/mathematicians use stochastic models that allow one to adapt the models to a particular situation (healthcare capacity, co-existing illnesses, economic conditions, demographics etc) to inform decisions. I am assuming this is what Dr. Amoth's team used to inform the 3-week total lockdown that is being contemplated even though I have heard that that is fake news...


True. Simple models don't cut at a certain level of analysis. The assumption of 'unabated growth' may be the issue. Because I'd say unabated is too strict a term. Otherwise the conditions you've mentioned may be interpreted as abatement factors.

The model I have presented is an interpretation of what unabated growth means ... Maybe we can deal with this later...
Dahatre
#720 Posted : Tuesday, March 31, 2020 12:49:51 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/21/2009
Posts: 602
Lolest! wrote:
This part is not getting enough attention
Nation wrote:
Ministry of Health Director General Dr Patrick Amoth said their preliminary modelling data showed that coronavirus cases by mid-April will hit 5,000, and rise to 10,000 by end of April in the absence of drastic intervention.


People are modeling to create policy on how long to go in lockdown..but it depends on what happens during the lockdown.

If lockdown is used to beef up support systems, create vaccines/treatments etc..Then they are useful. If it's a plan to figure out how to profit (USA) or steal (Kenya) then the Pandemic just continues as before once lockdown is over.

More on the limits of modeling here:

A call to honesty in pandemic modeling
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