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murchr
#61 Posted : Friday, August 16, 2019 5:32:18 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
limanika wrote:
murchr wrote:
limanika wrote:
Ati all 11year olds to be shipped to (boarding) secondary schools under CBC. Just so you can strip KNUT off its members?

Has anyone ever done study why we have much indiscipline in boarding secondary schools and not the day schools.

Could be these kids move to secondary schools when still not mature and now govt wants to reduce the age even further?????


Kwani KNUT doesnt have Secondary sch teachers?

You dont know most Knut members are primary school teachers? And many secondary school teachers in KUPPET?


KNUT has membership from both primary and secondary
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
limanika
#62 Posted : Friday, August 16, 2019 5:41:25 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
murchr wrote:
limanika wrote:
murchr wrote:
limanika wrote:
Ati all 11year olds to be shipped to (boarding) secondary schools under CBC. Just so you can strip KNUT off its members?

Has anyone ever done study why we have much indiscipline in boarding secondary schools and not the day schools.

Could be these kids move to secondary schools when still not mature and now govt wants to reduce the age even further?????


Kwani KNUT doesnt have Secondary sch teachers?

You dont know most Knut members are primary school teachers? And many secondary school teachers in KUPPET?


KNUT has membership from both primary and secondary

Most KNUT members are primary school teachers. So you reduce number of primary sch teachers you reduce membership.

But can we focus on the more substantive matter at hand. Separating entire generations of kids from parents at age 11 to join secondary, is it good for the nation?
murchr
#63 Posted : Friday, August 16, 2019 5:55:02 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
limanika wrote:
murchr wrote:
limanika wrote:
murchr wrote:
limanika wrote:
Ati all 11year olds to be shipped to (boarding) secondary schools under CBC. Just so you can strip KNUT off its members?

Has anyone ever done study why we have much indiscipline in boarding secondary schools and not the day schools.

Could be these kids move to secondary schools when still not mature and now govt wants to reduce the age even further?????


Kwani KNUT doesnt have Secondary sch teachers?

You dont know most Knut members are primary school teachers? And many secondary school teachers in KUPPET?


KNUT has membership from both primary and secondary

Most KNUT members are primary school teachers. So you reduce number of primary sch teachers you reduce membership.

But can we focus on the more substantive matter at hand. Separating entire generations of kids from parents at age 11 to join secondary, is it good for the nation?


Whatever those teachers will be called - secondary intermediary primary etc their membership to knut is not determined by the kind of school they are teaching.

If a teacher doesnt feel represented by KNUT they can easily cease being members by the way, govt doesn't dictate.

And as a parent, you can always take your child to a day school....we live in a free world.

I went to boarding sch at 9 in the foothills of Aberdares and I turned out alright, very independent.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
radiomast
#64 Posted : Monday, August 19, 2019 5:20:35 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 428
If they are scrapping national exams, then what is the criteria for admission to national schools like Alliance and who will go to provincial schools?
thuks
#65 Posted : Monday, August 19, 2019 6:31:21 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/8/2008
Posts: 1,575
radiomast wrote:
If they are scrapping national exams, then what is the criteria for admission to national schools like Alliance and who will go to provincial schools?

They can use the points accumulated over several years to place the students. A better measure of ability than a one-off examination. I would support this
I care!
radiomast
#66 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2019 4:27:02 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 428
thuks wrote:
radiomast wrote:
If they are scrapping national exams, then what is the criteria for admission to national schools like Alliance and who will go to provincial schools?

They can use the points accumulated over several years to place the students. A better measure of ability than a one-off examination. I would support this


Then teachers, especially head-teachers are about to become very wealthy. Parents will bribe teachers to award students extra points. Students will be getting points for doing extra work, sweeping the floor, knitting a good sweater, carrying the teachers' bag, washing the teacher's car etc etc. There is no objective criteria for awarding points.

Due to lack of objective criteria, there will be fisticuffs between broke parents who can't afford to bribe and teachers.

Private schools will especially become notorious for helping students accumulate points.

There are about one million KCPE candidates each year. I am certain that by the time the students reach standard six, half a million of them will have accumulated enough points to go to a national school.

So now who will go to Alliance and Kenya High and who will go to Jamhuri high and Ngara girls and who will go to Ruthimitu mixed and Shadrack Kimalel?

We don't know because 500,000 students have all accumulated maximum points and their parents are demanding a spot at Alliance.

limanika
#67 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2019 6:11:08 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
radiomast wrote:
thuks wrote:
radiomast wrote:
If they are scrapping national exams, then what is the criteria for admission to national schools like Alliance and who will go to provincial schools?

They can use the points accumulated over several years to place the students. A better measure of ability than a one-off examination. I would support this


Then teachers, especially head-teachers are about to become very wealthy. Parents will bribe teachers to award students extra points. Students will be getting points for doing extra work, sweeping the floor, knitting a good sweater, carrying the teachers' bag, washing the teacher's car etc etc. There is no objective criteria for awarding points.

Due to lack of objective criteria, there will be fisticuffs between broke parents who can't afford to bribe and teachers.

Private schools will especially become notorious for helping students accumulate points.

There are about one million KCPE candidates each year. I am certain that by the time the students reach standard six, half a million of them will have accumulated enough points to go to a national school.

So now who will go to Alliance and Kenya High and who will go to Jamhuri high and Ngara girls and who will go to Ruthimitu mixed and Shadrack Kimalel?

We don't know because 500,000 students have all accumulated maximum points and their parents are demanding a spot at Alliance.


I think the selection system to secondary schools will change completely from the way we know it. So, pupils will apply to join secondary schools of their choice, and each school will have own criteria of selection. So some school may rely on pupil's academic reports while others may subject the kids to entrance exams/interviews. Either way the system will favor private secondary schools so that's where the next money is. My beef is separating kids when too young. This new system is copy cat of what happens in some European countries. Children who leave home too Early tend to be too independent. Whether this good or not good is in the eye of the beholder
radiomast
#68 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2019 8:03:14 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 428
limanika wrote:

I think the selection system to secondary schools will change completely from the way we know it. So, pupils will apply to join secondary schools of their choice, and each school will have own criteria of selection. So some school may rely on pupil's academic reports while others may subject the kids to entrance exams/interviews. Either way the system will favor private secondary schools so that's where the next money is. My beef is separating kids when too young. This new system is copy cat of what happens in some European countries. Children who leave home too Early tend to be too independent. Whether this good or not good is in the eye of the beholder


This system you propose is also prone to rampant corruption and inefficiency.

If schools require interviews then head-teachers will receive bribes to inflate grades of certain students. Teachers will leak the interview exam to whichever student has paid a bribe.

Students for their part will be forced to take several interview exams at different schools since they don't know which school will accept them.

If schools use report forms then some head-teachers will make their tests easy so that all their students can qualify to go to a national school.

Teachers will take bribes to make report forms look good.

Parents will resort to taking their children to schools with easier exams so that their report forms can look good.

And cheating will be far more rampant. Its easier to get leakage in a school exam than in a national exam.

newfarer
#69 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2019 8:08:36 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/19/2010
Posts: 3,505
Location: Uganda
do we have countries with successful similar practices or are we going to use our kids as guinea pigs.i think this system has many gray areas not to mention that we expect the same teachers who have always felt oppressed to implement the same system that they also don't understand
punda amecheka
radiomast
#70 Posted : Tuesday, August 20, 2019 8:11:37 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 428
Many western countries don't have national exams for entry into high school. The reason it works for them is because students get automatic entry into the school that is in their neighbourhood. So for example if you live in Lavington then you get automatic entry into Patch or Kabz. If you live at Laini saba then you get automatic entry into Shadrack Kimalel. And if you live near Thompson falls then you attend Ndururumo secondary.

That system leaves very little room for corruption and inefficiency. Residents of a location take pride in their local school and they work with the school boards and teachers to improve their schools. Their local property taxes go towards improving the school. So if you want a good school system then you must be willing to pay high property taxes.

if there are no national exams then Kenya may have to scrap national schools and leave it to local school boards to improve their schools. Because otherwise there is no objective criteria for determining who can join a national school
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