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Ken Okoth,MP Kibra..It shall be well
hardwood
#221 Posted : Sunday, August 04, 2019 9:38:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Sasa these mbloggers now pretend to know more about luo culture than the luo council of elders? They should shut up and listen to the wazee...


https://www.the-star.co....-okoths-wife-inherited/

Quote:



Homa Bay Luo council of elders want the widow of Kibra MP Ken Okoth inherited as per the community’s cultural practices.

Speaking to journalists at his Kendu Bay home, the council of elders led by chairman Nyandiko Ongadi said their cultural practice demands Monica be inherited.

The elders also said Monica should visit her husband’s home to perform certain rituals together with the family.

“The rituals with the family of her husband at home are necessary. The family should also symbolically bury a banana log at the home,” Ongadi said.

On Sunday, Nyandiko said Monica can be inherited by one of the Okoth’s brothers and build her a house (simba) or a home.

“It’s upon any of the Okoth’s brother interested to inherit her. Should there be no brother then a close relative can do the same to fulfil the Luo cultural rites,” Ongadi said.

Kusadikika
#222 Posted : Sunday, August 04, 2019 11:34:07 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 2,703
Remember the "Raila Baba, Raila Mwana na roho mtakatifu" man?



He is back and wants Okoth's wife to be inherited.

masukuma
#223 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2019 12:16:09 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
hardwood wrote:
Habari ndiyo hiyo. Jaboya is waiting to cleanse her.....



is Anita willing to be inherited? she can take one for the team.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Angelica _ann
#224 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2019 9:54:54 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,908
masukuma wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Habari ndiyo hiyo. Jaboya is waiting to cleanse her.....



is Anita willing to be inherited? she can take one for the team.


Those Luo council of elders members are just busybodies who have nothing to do. They are known to demand handsomely payment to perform the rituals they are advancing. MP Okoth doesn't have a house/home in Luo nyanza.

If they are serious;

when Okoth came back from majuu around 2011/2012, they would have advised him to build/'beat' a home/house in shaggs, they didnt.

when he became an MP in 2013 and therefore became a national leader they should have advised him to build/'beat' a home/house in shaggs, they didn't.

when he was ailing and there was a point of no return, they should have organized for him and help him build/'beat' a home/house in shaggs, they didn't.

Now this is the most crucial one, when Okoth died, traditionally they should have organised and built a home/house where the body would have been taken. To show you that theirs is odomodomo, nobody even attempted to try to undertake such a simple assignment. So what they are advancing is talk with no substance.

Also Okoth had the means, how come he never built in shaggs?
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
hardwood
#225 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2019 1:37:30 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
'Kwa nini ayurupian nachukua mitoto yetu mjaluo anaenda kuchoma?'




hardwood
#226 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2019 1:56:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
The Luo Council of Elders has said that Monica must be cleansed. They have given details of the cleansing and way forward...

https://www.the-star.co....inheritance-luo-elders/

Quote:
The widow of the late Kibra MP Ken Okoth, Monica, should first undergo cleansing before she is inherited by the legislator's elder brother, Luo elders have said.

Luo Council of Elders Chairman Nyandiko Ongadi said that Monica should visit Okoth's native home in Kasewe, Homa Bay county for cleansing rituals.

"If truly Monica is Okoth's wife she should honour the community's culture and practices," he said.

Cleansing, according to the Luo elders, involves engaging in sexual intercourse without a condom with a 'cleanser'.

A cleanser, Ongadi said, is often a non-relative of the deceased husband.

"When Monica arrives she will be taken for HIV and STI testing before the cleansing begins," Ongadi said.

The Luo elder said that cleansing is important in removing the impurity, the widow is believed to have acquired from the death of her husband.

After Okoth's European wife is 'cleansed', she will be expected to be inherited by one of the Okoth’s brothers and build her a house (simba) or a home.

“It’s upon any of the Okoth’s elder brother interested to inherit her. Should there be no brother then a close elder relative can do the same to fulfil the Luo cultural rites,” Ongadi said.

Angelica _ann
#227 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2019 2:32:07 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,908
hardwood wrote:
The Luo Council of Elders has said that Monica must be cleansed. They have given details of the cleansing and way forward...

https://www.the-star.co....inheritance-luo-elders/

Quote:
The widow of the late Kibra MP Ken Okoth, Monica, should first undergo cleansing before she is inherited by the legislator's elder brother, Luo elders have said.

Luo Council of Elders Chairman Nyandiko Ongadi said that Monica should visit Okoth's native home in Kasewe, Homa Bay county for cleansing rituals.

"If truly Monica is Okoth's wife she should honour the community's culture and practices," he said.

Cleansing, according to the Luo elders, involves engaging in sexual intercourse without a condom with a 'cleanser'.

A cleanser, Ongadi said, is often a non-relative of the deceased husband.

"When Monica arrives she will be taken for HIV and STI testing before the cleansing begins," Ongadi said.

The Luo elder said that cleansing is important in removing the impurity, the widow is believed to have acquired from the death of her husband.

After Okoth's European wife is 'cleansed', she will be expected to be inherited by one of the Okoth’s brothers and build her a house (simba) or a home.

“It’s upon any of the Okoth’s elder brother interested to inherit her. Should there be no brother then a close elder relative can do the same to fulfil the Luo cultural rites,” Ongadi said.



Guys are paid to write such crap which they know can't happen, won't happen. Meaningless kabisa.
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
hardwood
#228 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2019 2:39:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Angelica _ann wrote:


Those Luo council of elders members are just busybodies who have nothing to do.



Those elders are 100% correct. You shouldn't dismiss them as busy bodies for giving their expert opinion on the matter.

FYI I am also "an expert" on luo culture since I have read widely about the Luo people and their language and culture. Infact I have PDF copies of several PhD thesis detailing the luo and their way of life including the famous one by Prof Ogot - History of the Southern Luo. I should send you a copy since you appear ignorant on matters luo culture.
hardwood
#229 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2019 2:41:34 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Angelica _ann wrote:
hardwood wrote:
The Luo Council of Elders has said that Monica must be cleansed. They have given details of the cleansing and way forward...

https://www.the-star.co....inheritance-luo-elders/

Quote:
The widow of the late Kibra MP Ken Okoth, Monica, should first undergo cleansing before she is inherited by the legislator's elder brother, Luo elders have said.

Luo Council of Elders Chairman Nyandiko Ongadi said that Monica should visit Okoth's native home in Kasewe, Homa Bay county for cleansing rituals.

"If truly Monica is Okoth's wife she should honour the community's culture and practices," he said.

Cleansing, according to the Luo elders, involves engaging in sexual intercourse without a condom with a 'cleanser'.

A cleanser, Ongadi said, is often a non-relative of the deceased husband.

"When Monica arrives she will be taken for HIV and STI testing before the cleansing begins," Ongadi said.

The Luo elder said that cleansing is important in removing the impurity, the widow is believed to have acquired from the death of her husband.

After Okoth's European wife is 'cleansed', she will be expected to be inherited by one of the Okoth’s brothers and build her a house (simba) or a home.

“It’s upon any of the Okoth’s elder brother interested to inherit her. Should there be no brother then a close elder relative can do the same to fulfil the Luo cultural rites,” Ongadi said.



Guys are paid to write such crap which they know can't happen, won't happen. Meaningless kabisa.



Dont blame the messenger. Those elders are 100% correct. You shouldn't dismiss them as busy bodies for giving their expert opinion on the matter.

FYI I am also "an expert" on luo culture since I have read widely about the Luo people and their language and culture. Infact I have PDF copies of several PhD thesis detailing the luo and their way of life including the famous one by Prof Ogot - History of the Southern Luo. I should send you a copy since you appear ignorant on matters luo culture.
tycho
#230 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2019 2:58:46 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
There are several challenges that the Luo council of elders should consider. For example, how the institution of eldership is conferred and the responsibilities that are implied in eldership.

At the moment I hypothesize that such a council was meant to play an adaptive role in cultural design and engineering. In this case, a post colonial, national and global outlook needs to have inspired a new crop of elders on how to respond to the changed environment.

In this case we could ask ourselves if Monica was married via a customary process and to what extent. Then that could guide the correct ritual design for this occasion.
hardwood
#231 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2019 3:35:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
tycho wrote:
There are several challenges that the Luo council of elders should consider. For example, how the institution of eldership is conferred and the responsibilities that are implied in eldership.

At the moment I hypothesize that such a council was meant to play an adaptive role in cultural design and engineering. In this case, a post colonial, national and global outlook needs to have inspired a new crop of elders on how to respond to the changed environment.

In this case we could ask ourselves if Monica was married via a customary process and to what extent. Then that could guide the correct ritual design for this occasion.


Why do you want "a new crop of elders" to rewrite the luo culture? Should dotcom judges at the judiciary also go rewriting the law books, and the religious leaders to rewrite the bible to suit "some people"?

All the elders have done is to quote a section from the "luo customs bible" (which has been passed orally from generation to generation for millennia) and have explained the various rites that should be performed when a luo man dies.
hardwood
#232 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2019 4:30:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
How he was cremated. Hii ni Hellfire......


Gathige
#233 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2019 6:31:41 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 2,242
hardwood wrote:
How he was cremated. Hii ni Hellfire......




The " Undertaker" seems high on some substance. They way he is sifting the remains with bare hands is abnormal.
"Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
hardwood
#234 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2019 6:39:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Gathige wrote:
hardwood wrote:
How he was cremated. Hii ni Hellfire......




The " Undertaker" seems high on some substance. They way he is sifting the remains with bare hands is abnormal.



Why does he need gloves? The remains have been sterilized by the "hellfire" at 2,000 degrees C for 2 hours.
Impunity
#235 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2019 11:01:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,328
Location: Masada
Bigchick wrote:
Tokyo wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Shak wrote:
Monica is a genius! She'll go back to France and lead a peaceful life and leave the clande and mom in law fighting over Ken's wealth.


When someone dies, its the wife/wives and kids (including adopted ones) who inherit the property. Not the mother. These are some of the beneficiaries...




He should have been inclusive while adopting.



Most adoption laws do not support adoption of baby boys.

ION I hear Radio queen Mutoko Caroline has adopted a son.


Why boys not adopted?
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

Impunity
#236 Posted : Monday, August 05, 2019 11:04:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,328
Location: Masada
Angelica _ann wrote:
masukuma wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Habari ndiyo hiyo. Jaboya is waiting to cleanse her.....



is Anita willing to be inherited? she can take one for the team.


Those Luo council of elders members are just busybodies who have nothing to do. They are known to demand handsomely payment to perform the rituals they are advancing. MP Okoth doesn't have a house/home in Luo nyanza.

If they are serious;

when Okoth came back from majuu around 2011/2012, they would have advised him to build/'beat' a home/house in shaggs, they didnt.

when he became an MP in 2013 and therefore became a national leader they should have advised him to build/'beat' a home/house in shaggs, they didn't.

when he was ailing and there was a point of no return, they should have organized for him and help him build/'beat' a home/house in shaggs, they didn't.

Now this is the most crucial one, when Okoth died, traditionally they should have organised and built a home/house where the body would have been taken. To show you that theirs is odomodomo, nobody even attempted to try to undertake such a simple assignment. So what they are advancing is talk with no substance.

Also Okoth had the means, how come he never built in shaggs?


He was "born tao".
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

tycho
#237 Posted : Tuesday, August 06, 2019 7:04:09 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
hardwood wrote:
tycho wrote:
There are several challenges that the Luo council of elders should consider. For example, how the institution of eldership is conferred and the responsibilities that are implied in eldership.

At the moment I hypothesize that such a council was meant to play an adaptive role in cultural design and engineering. In this case, a post colonial, national and global outlook needs to have inspired a new crop of elders on how to respond to the changed environment.

In this case we could ask ourselves if Monica was married via a customary process and to what extent. Then that could guide the correct ritual design for this occasion.


Why do you want "a new crop of elders" to rewrite the luo culture? Should dotcom judges at the judiciary also go rewriting the law books, and the religious leaders to rewrite the bible to suit "some people"?

All the elders have done is to quote a section from the "luo customs bible" (which has been passed orally from generation to generation for millennia) and have explained the various rites that should be performed when a luo man dies.


@Hardwood, law is ever being rewritten. Consider an issue like 'marital rape' how could it evolve without new lawyers rethinking old ideas?

You may have never opened the Egyptian book of the dead. But it can be shown that most scripture borrows from past civilization.

Formally, all cultures are complex systems that undergo 'emergence'. Emergence needs readaptation. In the case of our cultures, colonialism and globalism have increased complexity. Therefore there's more need for readaptation.
hardwood
#238 Posted : Tuesday, August 06, 2019 10:43:39 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
You should understand the importance of those cultural practices (cleansing and wife inheritance) before dismissing them.

After a woman's husband dies, she must engage in sexual intercourse without a condom with a “cleanser,” often a non-relative of the deceased husband, to remove the impurity she is believed to have acquired from the death of her husband. A condom is not used because the practices are considered incomplete unless fluids mix during intercourse. The Luo believe that the death of a husband confers impurity upon the widow and restricts her from participating fully in certain social events. Sexual ritual is thus performed to cleanse her and fully reintegrate her into normal community life.

After a widow has been “cleansed,” she is expected to be inherited by a man, traditionally an in-law. Inheritance is important in that the designated male assumes responsibility for the social and economic support of a widow upon the death of her husband.

For a young widow with children, inheritance by a brother or cousin to the husband allows for continued support by her husband’s extended family. Widows without children or with few children are expected by the extended family to bear children, particularly sons, who would continue the lineage of the deceased husband.

Also many women are widowed young, and fulfillment of sexual desire is a major reason for being inherited.

Aside from the initial cleansing ritual, widows, as well as married women, are expected to observe other sexual norms common in the Luo community. For example, they are expected to engage in sexual intercourse during the establishment of a home; during agricultural cycles such as tilling the land, planting, and harvesting; and when participating in the funeral or marriage ceremonies of some relatives. In each of these cases, a widow must find a sexual partner to help her fulfill these required rites. Fulfilling these sexual rituals often means engaging in sex without a condom, because the practices are considered incomplete unless fluids mix during sexual intercourse . Women engage in these practices to conform to societal norms or because they are compelled to do so by their husbands’ families, their own families, or the belief that engaging in the tradition will ensure that they or their children will not be ostracized or face illness or other misfortunes (chira).

If a woman does not have a resident partner with whom she can carry out ritual sexual practices, she is expected to look for a man with whom to observe the sexual ritual. An inherited widow can observe this ritual with the inheritor when such occasions arise, but a widow who is not inherited has to seek another man with whom to observe the sexual rituals.

As you can see those practices are important to ensure the welfare of the woman in luo society.
Angelica _ann
#239 Posted : Tuesday, August 06, 2019 10:59:36 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,908
hardwood wrote:
You should understand the importance of those cultural practices (cleansing and wife inheritance) before dismissing them.

After a woman's husband dies, she must engage in sexual intercourse without a condom with a “cleanser,” often a non-relative of the deceased husband, to remove the impurity she is believed to have acquired from the death of her husband. A condom is not used because the practices are considered incomplete unless fluids mix during intercourse. The Luo believe that the death of a husband confers impurity upon the widow and restricts her from participating fully in certain social events. Sexual ritual is thus performed to cleanse her and fully reintegrate her into normal community life.

After a widow has been “cleansed,” she is expected to be inherited by a man, traditionally an in-law. Inheritance is important in that the designated male assumes responsibility for the social and economic support of a widow upon the death of her husband.

For a young widow with children, inheritance by a brother or cousin to the husband allows for continued support by her husband’s extended family. Widows without children or with few children are expected by the extended family to bear children, particularly sons, who would continue the lineage of the deceased husband.

Also many women are widowed young, and fulfillment of sexual desire is a major reason for being inherited.

Aside from the initial cleansing ritual, widows, as well as married women, are expected to observe other sexual norms common in the Luo community. For example, they are expected to engage in sexual intercourse during the establishment of a home; during agricultural cycles such as tilling the land, planting, and harvesting; and when participating in the funeral or marriage ceremonies of some relatives. In each of these cases, a widow must find a sexual partner to help her fulfill these required rites. Fulfilling these sexual rituals often means engaging in sex without a condom, because the practices are considered incomplete unless fluids mix during sexual intercourse . Women engage in these practices to conform to societal norms or because they are compelled to do so by their husbands’ families, their own families, or the belief that engaging in the tradition will ensure that they or their children will not be ostracized or face illness or other misfortunes (chira).

If a woman does not have a resident partner with whom she can carry out ritual sexual practices, she is expected to look for a man with whom to observe the sexual ritual. An inherited widow can observe this ritual with the inheritor when such occasions arise, but a widow who is not inherited has to seek another man with whom to observe the sexual rituals.

As you can see those practices are important to ensure the welfare of the woman in luo society.


What you have written is very good. But as i told you earlier, the same elders didn't guide their son accordingly while he was still alive. Kwani the Elder's council is only useful in death. If theyw ere serious, they would have helped thier 'son' while he was alive to perform prior sites and have a house/home.

By the way i am talking from a point of knowlge and see this things in my many villages. Okoth is not the 1st and last married Luo to die without a home. But their are prior rituals performed before we get into the inheritance point which comes much later.

Your Elders need to be whipped properly.
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
hardwood
#240 Posted : Tuesday, August 06, 2019 11:54:34 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/28/2015
Posts: 9,562
Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
Angelica _ann wrote:
hardwood wrote:
You should understand the importance of those cultural practices (cleansing and wife inheritance) before dismissing them.

After a woman's husband dies, she must engage in sexual intercourse without a condom with a “cleanser,” often a non-relative of the deceased husband, to remove the impurity she is believed to have acquired from the death of her husband. A condom is not used because the practices are considered incomplete unless fluids mix during intercourse. The Luo believe that the death of a husband confers impurity upon the widow and restricts her from participating fully in certain social events. Sexual ritual is thus performed to cleanse her and fully reintegrate her into normal community life.

After a widow has been “cleansed,” she is expected to be inherited by a man, traditionally an in-law. Inheritance is important in that the designated male assumes responsibility for the social and economic support of a widow upon the death of her husband.

For a young widow with children, inheritance by a brother or cousin to the husband allows for continued support by her husband’s extended family. Widows without children or with few children are expected by the extended family to bear children, particularly sons, who would continue the lineage of the deceased husband.

Also many women are widowed young, and fulfillment of sexual desire is a major reason for being inherited.

Aside from the initial cleansing ritual, widows, as well as married women, are expected to observe other sexual norms common in the Luo community. For example, they are expected to engage in sexual intercourse during the establishment of a home; during agricultural cycles such as tilling the land, planting, and harvesting; and when participating in the funeral or marriage ceremonies of some relatives. In each of these cases, a widow must find a sexual partner to help her fulfill these required rites. Fulfilling these sexual rituals often means engaging in sex without a condom, because the practices are considered incomplete unless fluids mix during sexual intercourse . Women engage in these practices to conform to societal norms or because they are compelled to do so by their husbands’ families, their own families, or the belief that engaging in the tradition will ensure that they or their children will not be ostracized or face illness or other misfortunes (chira).

If a woman does not have a resident partner with whom she can carry out ritual sexual practices, she is expected to look for a man with whom to observe the sexual ritual. An inherited widow can observe this ritual with the inheritor when such occasions arise, but a widow who is not inherited has to seek another man with whom to observe the sexual rituals.

As you can see those practices are important to ensure the welfare of the woman in luo society.


What you have written is very good. But as i told you earlier, the same elders didn't guide their son accordingly while he was still alive. Kwani the Elder's council is only useful in death. If theyw ere serious, they would have helped thier 'son' while he was alive to perform prior sites and have a house/home.

By the way i am talking from a point of knowlge and see this things in my many villages. Okoth is not the 1st and last married Luo to die without a home. But their are prior rituals performed before we get into the inheritance point which comes much later.

Your Elders need to be whipped properly.


The elders believed that Ken was still a young man who had time to build a home in the village. But now that tragedy had occurred they had to play their role by giving advice on the way forward. So don't blame the wazee for doing their job.

Also I believe that this cremation issue put into disarray the rites that should have happened before, during and after interment. Could this be why cremation was chosen, despite it being basically unknown in the community?
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