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Potential merger NIC + CBA
NewMoney
#91 Posted : Wednesday, April 03, 2019 4:43:27 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/1/2019
Posts: 170
Location: Nairobi
tom_boy wrote:
For these so called huduma number proponents will huduma number do that an id number cannot be made to do.



It is very ridiculous that the above question has not been made clear. This country is a joke
Angelica _ann
#92 Posted : Wednesday, April 03, 2019 6:15:28 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/7/2012
Posts: 11,937
NewMoney wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
For these so called huduma number proponents will huduma number do that an id number cannot be made to do.



It is very ridiculous that the above question has not been made clear. This country is a joke


Huduma number is digitally unique to an individual and it cannot be replicated, something that the current ID was prone to.

It will also generate one identity number from birth to death, future generations will not know what 'taking' ID entails.

All your other gova details will be tied to it e.g. NSSF, NHIF, PIN, DL, etc - one data source.

etc etc etc
In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
tom_boy
#93 Posted : Wednesday, April 03, 2019 6:51:19 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
Angelica _ann wrote:
NewMoney wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
For these so called huduma number proponents will huduma number do that an id number cannot be made to do.



It is very ridiculous that the above question has not been made clear. This country is a joke


Huduma number is digitally unique to an individual and it cannot be replicated, something that the current ID was prone to.

It will also generate one identity number from birth to death, future generations will not know what 'taking' ID entails.

All your other gova details will be tied to it e.g. NSSF, NHIF, PIN, DL, etc - one data source.

etc etc etc



I may sound ridiculous and uneducated with this question lakini wacha niulize tu.

Why not digitize the id numbers they already have. Furthermore all institutions of govt require id number and my prints are already with them. Nhif, kra, nssf, employer, police abstracts etc all have my id number. Why not digitize what you have first then sort out matters of duplication that may arise. Subsequently start issuing id numbers from birth but question arises of which biometric to capture in a newborn that remains relevant 30yrs later.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
VituVingiSana
#94 Posted : Wednesday, April 03, 2019 7:43:37 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,371
Location: Nairobi
mufasa wrote:
The HUDUMA number is a good thing. It will help the country save a lot of money down the line.

Prof. Ndii says that to access services from private entities such as certain banks one will need the HUDUMA number. This argument isn't very strong since all he's got are speculations. Until he's got concrete data on his allegations, lets work with what we know and that is that the number will bring services from the government closer and faster. Yes, including taxation too and curbing corruption

Ndii also told us in 2014 that the proposed investment in the SGR was a poor investment/ROI. Jubilants said he was blowing hot air. Who turned out to be right?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#95 Posted : Wednesday, April 03, 2019 7:46:58 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,371
Location: Nairobi
Angelica _ann wrote:
NewMoney wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
For these so called huduma number proponents will huduma number do that an id number cannot be made to do.



It is very ridiculous that the above question has not been made clear. This country is a joke


Huduma number is digitally unique to an individual and it cannot be replicated, something that the current ID was prone to.

It will also generate one identity number from birth to death, future generations will not know what 'taking' ID entails.

All your other gova details will be tied to it e.g. NSSF, NHIF, PIN, DL, etc - one data source.

etc etc etc

1) Is not the current ID number unique?
2) What is "digitally unique"?
3) How can the current ID be replicated? [If you mean faked then change the ID to a smart ID with a chip like ATM cards using the same ID number]
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
NewMoney
#96 Posted : Thursday, April 04, 2019 12:03:19 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/1/2019
Posts: 170
Location: Nairobi
VituVingiSana wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
NewMoney wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
For these so called huduma number proponents will huduma number do that an id number cannot be made to do.



It is very ridiculous that the above question has not been made clear. This country is a joke


Huduma number is digitally unique to an individual and it cannot be replicated, something that the current ID was prone to.

It will also generate one identity number from birth to death, future generations will not know what 'taking' ID entails.

All your other gova details will be tied to it e.g. NSSF, NHIF, PIN, DL, etc - one data source.

etc etc etc

1) Is not the current ID number unique?
2) What is "digitally unique"?
3) How can the current ID be replicated? [If you mean faked then change the ID to a smart ID with a chip like ATM cards using the same ID number]



Exactly. None of the reasons above even come close to justifying a new number. They could have easily digitized national IDs if they wanted to.

The idea of giving kids IDs sounds sinister, I mean what is biggest problem it solves for us, besides, it would have worked perfectly fine with giving them the normal IDs as well or even a simpler solution like school managed serial number for tracking them through the education system which I think is already in place.

About replication, chips cards can get skimmed and replicated, this will become a new offering in river road sooner than later. I mean, today's ATM cards employ the most secure chip technology yet card skimmers are in business as usual.


It is very clear somebody somewhere thinks they are so smart and Kenyans are fools

Ericsson
#97 Posted : Thursday, April 04, 2019 2:16:46 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,819
Location: NAIROBI
NewMoney wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
NewMoney wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
For these so called huduma number proponents will huduma number do that an id number cannot be made to do.



It is very ridiculous that the above question has not been made clear. This country is a joke


Huduma number is digitally unique to an individual and it cannot be replicated, something that the current ID was prone to.

It will also generate one identity number from birth to death, future generations will not know what 'taking' ID entails.

All your other gova details will be tied to it e.g. NSSF, NHIF, PIN, DL, etc - one data source.

etc etc etc

1) Is not the current ID number unique?
2) What is "digitally unique"?
3) How can the current ID be replicated? [If you mean faked then change the ID to a smart ID with a chip like ATM cards using the same ID number]



Exactly. None of the reasons above even come close to justifying a new number. They could have easily digitized national IDs if they wanted to.

The idea of giving kids IDs sounds sinister, I mean what is biggest problem it solves for us, besides, it would have worked perfectly fine with giving them the normal IDs as well or even a simpler solution like school managed serial number for tracking them through the education system which I think is already in place.

About replication, chips cards can get skimmed and replicated, this will become a new offering in river road sooner than later. I mean, today's ATM cards employ the most secure chip technology yet card skimmers are in business as usual.


It is very clear somebody somewhere thinks they are so smart and Kenyans are fools


There are more urgent problems to be sorted out before we even think about huduma number,
If we had a visionary leadership kenya would now be second to South Africa in terms of development in Africa if we continued with the pace of NARC and Grand coalition
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
sparkly
#98 Posted : Thursday, April 04, 2019 7:39:17 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Angelica _ann wrote:
NewMoney wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
For these so called huduma number proponents will huduma number do that an id number cannot be made to do.



It is very ridiculous that the above question has not been made clear. This country is a joke


Huduma number is digitally unique to an individual and it cannot be replicated, something that the current ID was prone to.

It will also generate one identity number from birth to death, future generations will not know what 'taking' ID entails.

All your other gova details will be tied to it e.g. NSSF, NHIF, PIN, DL, etc - one data source.

etc etc etc


The real problem is fragmented identification systems at different GOK departments like Registrar of Births, Registrar of Persons, Immigration, Registrar of Motor Vehicles, Registrars of Business & Companies as well as records by parastatals like KRA, NSSF, NHIF.

This problem becomes obvoius When seeking GOK seevices. For instance you apply for a PIN from KRA, they ask you to give them an original company incorporation certificate. You apply for a passport, they ask for your birth certificate and your ID. If there is a difference in names, DOB, place of birth etc you have to amend one of the documents.

These records should be maintained on one database, available to all GOK departments.

Will the huduma no. resolve the problem of multiple and fragmented registration systems or will it add to the confusion? If not, huduma no is just another case of putting the cart before the horse.
Life is short. Live passionately.
jmbada
#99 Posted : Thursday, April 04, 2019 8:24:33 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/1/2011
Posts: 396
sparkly wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
NewMoney wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
For these so called huduma number proponents will huduma number do that an id number cannot be made to do.



It is very ridiculous that the above question has not been made clear. This country is a joke


Huduma number is digitally unique to an individual and it cannot be replicated, something that the current ID was prone to.

It will also generate one identity number from birth to death, future generations will not know what 'taking' ID entails.

All your other gova details will be tied to it e.g. NSSF, NHIF, PIN, DL, etc - one data source.

etc etc etc


The real problem is fragmented identification systems at different GOK departments like Registrar of Births, Registrar of Persons, Immigration, Registrar of Motor Vehicles, Registrars of Business & Companies as well as records by parastatals like KRA, NSSF, NHIF.

This problem becomes obvoius When seeking GOK seevices. For instance you apply for a PIN from KRA, they ask you to give them an original company incorporation certificate. You apply for a passport, they ask for your birth certificate and your ID. If there is a difference in names, DOB, place of birth etc you have to amend one of the documents.

These records should be maintained on one database, available to all GOK departments.

Will the huduma no. resolve the problem of multiple and fragmented registration systems or will it add to the confusion? If not, huduma no is just another case of putting the cart before the horse.

Huduma no. only simplifies work for the govt. Not the individual citizen. I can access ALL govt. services currently with my ID and telephone number alone! The govt. already has a massive fingerprint database from ID registration, passport issuance, travel at airports, electoral database, etc. They should spend more money integrating these databases rather than creating a whole new database.
From a civil liberties perspective, that is why MOST Western democracies do not have MANDATORY fingerprinting for simple registration to access govt. services. If it wasn't for 911, even passports would still be issued generally via one's birth certificate.
The concept of ID's and fingerprints is colonial in its origin. Only suspects get fingerprinted in most of those cases.
And then there's the below analysis of issues with a similar system in India:

See: https://www.washingtonpo...;utm_term=.4426afa5f1ae
AND
https://www.bbc.com/news...rld-asia-india-43619944
Key excerpt from the BBC article:
"....In many of the other highly-developed societies in Europe and North America - and in the view of many computer scientists and policy-makers who study and advocate for policy in this area - using single number identity systems for everything is simply not a good idea.

In 2010, the United Kingdom abandoned a similar scheme of a national identity card linked to biometric information.

Israel has a smart card identification system with no fingerprints where data is not stored in any centralised database but stays only on the card.

The US has no such nationwide, all-encompassing program and only two states - California and Colorado - fingerprint driving licence applications
Biometric information is collected by most of these countries only for visitors but not for their own citizens.

Connecting bank accounts and voter registration to biometrics is a trend seen only in China, some countries in Africa, Venezuela, Iraq and the Philippines.


Biometric information is collected by most countries only for visitors but not for their own citizens
Centralised government-controlled databases of biometric and genomic data create high levels of social risk. Any compromise of such a database is essentially irreversible for a whole human lifetime: no one can change their genetic data or fingerprints in response to a leak.

Any declaration by a government that its database will never be compromised is inherently far-fetched. No government can argue that its flood prevention or public health system will never fail under the pressure of weather or disease. The goal of policy is risk management, not perfect risk-prevention.
...."
sparkly
#100 Posted : Thursday, April 04, 2019 9:01:05 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
jmbada wrote:
sparkly wrote:
Angelica _ann wrote:
NewMoney wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
For these so called huduma number proponents will huduma number do that an id number cannot be made to do.



It is very ridiculous that the above question has not been made clear. This country is a joke


Huduma number is digitally unique to an individual and it cannot be replicated, something that the current ID was prone to.

It will also generate one identity number from birth to death, future generations will not know what 'taking' ID entails.

All your other gova details will be tied to it e.g. NSSF, NHIF, PIN, DL, etc - one data source.

etc etc etc


The real problem is fragmented identification systems at different GOK departments like Registrar of Births, Registrar of Persons, Immigration, Registrar of Motor Vehicles, Registrars of Business & Companies as well as records by parastatals like KRA, NSSF, NHIF.

This problem becomes obvoius When seeking GOK seevices. For instance you apply for a PIN from KRA, they ask you to give them an original company incorporation certificate. You apply for a passport, they ask for your birth certificate and your ID. If there is a difference in names, DOB, place of birth etc you have to amend one of the documents.

These records should be maintained on one database, available to all GOK departments.

Will the huduma no. resolve the problem of multiple and fragmented registration systems or will it add to the confusion? If not, huduma no is just another case of putting the cart before the horse.

Huduma no. only simplifies work for the govt. Not the individual citizen. I can access ALL govt. services currently with my ID and telephone number alone! The govt. already has a massive fingerprint database from ID registration, passport issuance, travel at airports, electoral database, etc. They should spend more money integrating these databases rather than creating a whole new database.
From a civil liberties perspective, that is why MOST Western democracies do not have MANDATORY fingerprinting for simple registration to access govt. services. If it wasn't for 911, even passports would still be issued generally via one's birth certificate.
The concept of ID's and fingerprints is colonial in its origin. Only suspects get fingerprinted in most of those cases.
And then there's the below analysis of issues with a similar system in India:

See: https://www.washingtonpo...;utm_term=.4426afa5f1ae
AND
https://www.bbc.com/news...rld-asia-india-43619944
Key excerpt from the BBC article:
"....In many of the other highly-developed societies in Europe and North America - and in the view of many computer scientists and policy-makers who study and advocate for policy in this area - using single number identity systems for everything is simply not a good idea.

In 2010, the United Kingdom abandoned a similar scheme of a national identity card linked to biometric information.

Israel has a smart card identification system with no fingerprints where data is not stored in any centralised database but stays only on the card.

The US has no such nationwide, all-encompassing program and only two states - California and Colorado - fingerprint driving licence applications
Biometric information is collected by most of these countries only for visitors but not for their own citizens.

Connecting bank accounts and voter registration to biometrics is a trend seen only in China, some countries in Africa, Venezuela, Iraq and the Philippines.


Biometric information is collected by most countries only for visitors but not for their own citizens
Centralised government-controlled databases of biometric and genomic data create high levels of social risk. Any compromise of such a database is essentially irreversible for a whole human lifetime: no one can change their genetic data or fingerprints in response to a leak.

Any declaration by a government that its database will never be compromised is inherently far-fetched. No government can argue that its flood prevention or public health system will never fail under the pressure of weather or disease. The goal of policy is risk management, not perfect risk-prevention.
...."


Very enlightening. I belief we are in agreement that GOK should intergrate the Bio data available from the different databases and make it available across the GOK departments.
Life is short. Live passionately.
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