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Sexuality at work
Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2007 Posts: 767
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Are ladies justified to cry foul about lower pay for same job done? Are they accurate when they say they are discriminated against during promotions? Is the # me too campaign a load of crap? They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/3/2008 Posts: 101
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tom_boy wrote:Are ladies justified to cry foul about lower pay for same job done? Are they accurate when they say they are discriminated against during promotions? Is the # me too campaign a load of crap? To begin with, l wouldn't call it "Sexuality at work"
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2007 Posts: 767
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Rongla wrote:tom_boy wrote:Are ladies justified to cry foul about lower pay for same job done? Are they accurate when they say they are discriminated against during promotions? Is the # me too campaign a load of crap? To begin with, l wouldn't call it "Sexuality at work" Really, what is it? Pray tell. Whatever the case, bora the question is understood. Thats what matters. They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2007 Posts: 767
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I am always intrigued when women rant and rave about inequality in the work place. I think they set themselves up to fail. They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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tom_boy wrote:Are ladies justified to cry foul about lower pay for same job done? Are they accurate when they say they are discriminated against during promotions? Is the # me too campaign a load of crap? People should be paid equally for the same job done with similarish outcome. It's not a matter of sexes. I don't think we have this problem in Kenya, or do we? But let's also be fair, you cannot pay women footballers the same as men as they do not attract the same revenue. Maybe tennis. BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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I think @2012 initiated this discussion under a less ambiguous 'header'?
Anyway, I'm aware of the debate about gender parity when it comes to pricing labor.
But it's become very difficult for me to say whether pricing women and men equally is necessarily a good thing. While a capitalist may wish to do that, I wonder whether a socialistic-communalist system would accept such valuation.
Firstly, prices are incentives for action. This has much to do with gender roles and values in society. If women play different roles in a society, how then can they be contained in a singular and narrowly defined concept?
So far, women have been doing plenty of unvalued and perhaps undervalued work like supporting a household even through chores. What happens if these undervalued tasks are neglected for a world of, 'what a man can do a woman can do better'?
I think both the calls for gender parity and maintaining an unappreciative status quo are misguided. And maybe, the clamor in the feminist camp is a reaction to patriarchical injustice and probably envy for the aggressor that needs a more serious conversation.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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2012 wrote:tom_boy wrote:Are ladies justified to cry foul about lower pay for same job done? Are they accurate when they say they are discriminated against during promotions? Is the # me too campaign a load of crap? People should be paid equally for the same job done with similarish outcome. It's not a matter of sexes. I don't think we have this problem in Kenya, or do we? But let's also be fair, you cannot pay women footballers the same as men as they do not attract the same revenue. Maybe tennis. The US women soccer players have been fiercely fighting for equal pay, at par or near to the men's. The bosses went 'you want to be treated equal? Cool, have an independent women's soccer federation, collect, manage and share your revenues'. The women absolutely refused. They want a fat piece of a pie that is not commensurate to their contribution... The push for equal pay is not without a few pockets of hypocrisy here and there...
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2007 Posts: 767
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quicksand wrote:2012 wrote:tom_boy wrote:Are ladies justified to cry foul about lower pay for same job done? Are they accurate when they say they are discriminated against during promotions? Is the # me too campaign a load of crap? People should be paid equally for the same job done with similarish outcome. It's not a matter of sexes. I don't think we have this problem in Kenya, or do we? But let's also be fair, you cannot pay women footballers the same as men as they do not attract the same revenue. Maybe tennis. The US women soccer players have been fiercely fighting for equal pay, at par or near to the men's. The bosses went 'you want to be treated equal? Cool, have an independent women's soccer federation, collect, manage and share your revenues'. The women absolutely refused. They want a fat piece of a pie that is not commensurate to their contribution... The push for equal pay is not without a few pockets of hypocrisy here and there... I have a female friend, single, high achiever in an audit firm. Works hard, travels alot, long hours. All her job related travells are with other single ladies or men. All her peers who are married or with kids simply cannot keep up with the pressure. They fall naturally by the wayside when its time for promotions. She personally says she does not like to partner with married women on jobs because reasons to skip the long hours and weekend jobs will be kibao, mara child is sick, mara I need to be home by x, mara its maternity leave etc etc. She finally understood why the top is male dominated. No beef with ladies by the way, just different roles, all important but not necessarily with similar value to an employer. They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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tom_boy wrote:quicksand wrote:2012 wrote:tom_boy wrote:Are ladies justified to cry foul about lower pay for same job done? Are they accurate when they say they are discriminated against during promotions? Is the # me too campaign a load of crap? People should be paid equally for the same job done with similarish outcome. It's not a matter of sexes. I don't think we have this problem in Kenya, or do we? But let's also be fair, you cannot pay women footballers the same as men as they do not attract the same revenue. Maybe tennis. The US women soccer players have been fiercely fighting for equal pay, at par or near to the men's. The bosses went 'you want to be treated equal? Cool, have an independent women's soccer federation, collect, manage and share your revenues'. The women absolutely refused. They want a fat piece of a pie that is not commensurate to their contribution... The push for equal pay is not without a few pockets of hypocrisy here and there... I have a female friend, single, high achiever in an audit firm. Works hard, travels alot, long hours. All her job related travells are with other single ladies or men. All her peers who are married or with kids simply cannot keep up with the pressure. They fall naturally by the wayside when its time for promotions. She personally says she does not like to partner with married women on jobs because reasons to skip the long hours and weekend jobs will be kibao, mara child is sick, mara I need to be home by x, mara its maternity leave etc etc. She finally understood why the top is male dominated. No beef with ladies by the way, just different roles, all important but not necessarily with similar value to an employer. These are the women who enter their 50s with a lot of money and misery due to loneliness. I believe there is a sell-by-date for women, not marriage but even a kid or two. I think it's hard to find genuine love for women after 36. But I ain't no expert, just by the power of observation. BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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tom_boy wrote:Rongla wrote:tom_boy wrote:Are ladies justified to cry foul about lower pay for same job done? Are they accurate when they say they are discriminated against during promotions? Is the # me too campaign a load of crap? To begin with, l wouldn't call it "Sexuality at work" Really, what is it? Pray tell. Whatever the case, bora the question is understood. Thats what matters. Sexism?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Men or women earn what they deserve. If a women earns more, then that is what she deserves, and if she earns less, that is what she deserves. Generally (mark the word GENERALLY) women put less in the work... I have worked with men and women. I have employed men and women. And I can tell you, most women work less, they want to work less, and whenever they get a loophole they work less. Women claim responsibility but do not take responsibility. Women are not independent... They want men to pay left right & center. That is why they want to marry professionals or rich people men. Some sadly have relationship in order to rise up at work place. This sickness of equality is sick! How is it for equality yet men cannot get pregnant, but women can get pregnant... Men cannot breastfeed but women can breastfeed... Even among the women they cannot be equal. So why this sexuality and work.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Quote:This sickness of equality is sick! How is it for equality yet men cannot get pregnant, but women can get pregnant... Men cannot breastfeed but women can breastfeed... Even among the women they cannot be equal. So why this sexuality and work
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 2/12/2019 Posts: 58
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LOL at what I am reading now. I expected to see something about some harrassment at work or something like that (I suppose I wrote that world correctly). Yet I see something about unequal pay, that is also some moral harrassment ?) Or something else ?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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hardwood wrote:Pegging pay to gender is the height of stupidity. If your daughter gets her medical degree, architecture degree, law degree, BCom etc why should she be paid differently from her male classmates and yet they studied and sat for same exams and are equally qualified professionals? Me and my wife have post graduate degrees and can't imagine wifey being paid less coz she is a woman. I pay based on output. There can be two Bcom graduates, but paid defferently, coz their efforts differ. And I'm saying GENERALLY the women put in less hours compared to men of the same qualification. Of course there are some exception, some women out smart the men, but this is exception. Generally!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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AlphDoti wrote:hardwood wrote:Pegging pay to gender is the height of stupidity. If your daughter gets her medical degree, architecture degree, law degree, BCom etc why should she be paid differently from her male classmates and yet they studied and sat for same exams and are equally qualified professionals? Me and my wife have post graduate degrees and can't imagine wifey being paid less coz she is a woman. I pay based on output. There can be two Bcom graduates, but paid defferently, coz their efforts differ. And I'm saying GENERALLY the women put in less hours compared to men of the same qualification. Of course there are some exception, some women out smart the men, but this is exception. Generally! You are wrong. Women are better and more committed workers than men. Men are always busy with side hustles, phombe and slay queens, meanwhile the female colleagues are busy on their laptops finishing and polishing their assignments.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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hardwood wrote:AlphDoti wrote:hardwood wrote:Pegging pay to gender is the height of stupidity. If your daughter gets her medical degree, architecture degree, law degree, BCom etc why should she be paid differently from her male classmates and yet they studied and sat for same exams and are equally qualified professionals? Me and my wife have post graduate degrees and can't imagine wifey being paid less coz she is a woman. I pay based on output. There can be two Bcom graduates, but paid defferently, coz their efforts differ. And I'm saying GENERALLY the women put in less hours compared to men of the same qualification. Of course there are some exception, some women out smart the men, but this is exception. Generally! You are wrong. Women are better and more committed workers than men. Men are always busy with side hustles, phombe and slay queens, meanwhile the female colleagues are busy on their laptops finishing and polishing their assignments. Not me, experts. Check out the book "Why Men Earn More" by Dr Warren Farrell Here is brief answer he gave
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:hardwood wrote:AlphDoti wrote:hardwood wrote:Pegging pay to gender is the height of stupidity. If your daughter gets her medical degree, architecture degree, law degree, BCom etc why should she be paid differently from her male classmates and yet they studied and sat for same exams and are equally qualified professionals? Me and my wife have post graduate degrees and can't imagine wifey being paid less coz she is a woman. I pay based on output. There can be two Bcom graduates, but paid defferently, coz their efforts differ. And I'm saying GENERALLY the women put in less hours compared to men of the same qualification. Of course there are some exception, some women out smart the men, but this is exception. Generally! You are wrong. Women are better and more committed workers than men. Men are always busy with side hustles, phombe and slay queens, meanwhile the female colleagues are busy on their laptops finishing and polishing their assignments. Not me, experts. Check out the book "Why Men Earn More" by Dr Warren Farrell Here is brief answer he gave I notice men generally have more running in their heads than your job... wako na mpingo nyingi sana All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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AlphDoti wrote:hardwood wrote:AlphDoti wrote:hardwood wrote:Pegging pay to gender is the height of stupidity. If your daughter gets her medical degree, architecture degree, law degree, BCom etc why should she be paid differently from her male classmates and yet they studied and sat for same exams and are equally qualified professionals? Me and my wife have post graduate degrees and can't imagine wifey being paid less coz she is a woman. I pay based on output. There can be two Bcom graduates, but paid defferently, coz their efforts differ. And I'm saying GENERALLY the women put in less hours compared to men of the same qualification. Of course there are some exception, some women out smart the men, but this is exception. Generally! You are wrong. Women are better and more committed workers than men. Men are always busy with side hustles, phombe and slay queens, meanwhile the female colleagues are busy on their laptops finishing and polishing their assignments. Not me, experts. Check out the book "Why Men Earn More" by Dr Warren Farrell Here is brief answer he gave These so called "experts" could just be chauvinists "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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