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Poll Question : MY NEW POSITION ON KENYA'S PROPOSED CONSTITUTION
Choice Votes Statistics
Yes.......(click) 56 60 %
No.........(click) 34 36 %
None of the Above...(click) 3 3 %
Total 93 100%

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Proposed constitution: new opinion poll...
simonkabz
#1 Posted : Wednesday, June 23, 2010 7:57:31 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
Mimi bado iko jess, more convinced than before. Lets see who has defected. @wazua si u weka that voting thing hapa...
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
wazua
#2 Posted : Wednesday, June 23, 2010 8:20:23 AM
Rank: Administration


Joined: 11/19/2009
Posts: 679
Dear Members,

With just about a month to go to the referendum, we have created a second poll as requested. Our first poll, over one month ago, ended in a tie.

Simply click on the your selection i.e. click on YES, click on NO or click on None of the Above.


Vote wisely! Welcome to Wazua

Fundaah
#3 Posted : Wednesday, June 23, 2010 10:53:58 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,267
wazua wrote:
Dear Members,

Simply click on the your selection i.e.

click on YES,

smile smile

Vote wisely!



Welcome to Wazua




For reasons:
Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
Soko tele
#4 Posted : Wednesday, June 23, 2010 12:14:06 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/19/2008
Posts: 60
Fundaah wrote:
wazua wrote:
Dear Members,

Simply click on the your selection i.e.

click on YES,

smile smile

Vote wisely!



Welcome to Wazua




For reasons:



Can that amount to hate "speech"d'oh!
leona
#5 Posted : Wednesday, June 23, 2010 12:41:51 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/1/2008
Posts: 1,432
Location: Marsabit
Soko tele wrote:

Can that amount to hate "speech"d'oh!


@Sokotele
Wacha siasasmile
Nevermind what haters say, ignore them til they fade away - Just live your life
rasilio
#6 Posted : Wednesday, June 23, 2010 1:49:20 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 153
Location: FU
mbona mnatuhadaa?d'oh! Shame on you

hi ni feki kama zile za ktn. ati 60% percent No. itakuwa 80% yes.Liar Liar
Mpenzi
#7 Posted : Wednesday, June 23, 2010 2:42:18 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/17/2008
Posts: 1,234
Its NO!
muganda
#8 Posted : Wednesday, June 23, 2010 3:11:39 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,905
It is more YES for me. I got two additional personal reasons for voting YES.

--Spoke to a wise taxi driver yesterday, who began by advising me on why he takes pride in his work and also takes care of his employer's car as if it were his own.

He said since 1990s with Matiba and Rubia, Kenyans have been unable to birth a new constitution because there's always a problem; so there will always be an issue. He has resolved not to let go of any more chances, especially if more than 90% of the document is good.



--Spoke to an older wise man who said Kenyans need to read Vision 2030 document and view the constitution from this perspective. If the three pillars for this Vision are - economic, social, political - does delaying the document in its current state bring us closer to the vision?

Vision 2030 aims to ensure gains made under vision are neither reversed nor lost as a result of political change through 8 governance principles:
1.constitutional supremacy
2.sovereignity of the people
3.equality of citizens
4.national values, goals, ideology
5.viable political party system
6.public participation in governance
7.separation of powers
8.decentralisation

murenj
#9 Posted : Thursday, June 24, 2010 8:12:37 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 851
Location: nairobi
Those with multiple screen names ............. Thanks but no thanks. Lets wait for the real thing.
youcan'tstopusnow
#10 Posted : Thursday, June 24, 2010 11:11:39 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
murenj wrote:
Those with multiple screen names ............. Thanks but no thanks. Lets wait for the real thing.

Do such people exist? TOBOA!!!!!!!
Wewe uko No ama YES?
People have refused the Synnovate poll, The KTN/Citizen polls and now even the Wazua polls.
All polls in Kenya then should be stopped.
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
mukiha
#11 Posted : Thursday, June 24, 2010 11:20:29 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
rasilio wrote:
mbona mnatuhadaa?d'oh! Shame on you

hi ni feki kama zile za ktn. ati 60% percent No. itakuwa 80% yes.Liar Liar

Why do people have difficulty accepting the outcome of elections if it is not what they expected?

Same goes for opinion polls.

Isn't it the same reason that makes politicians say things like "Kenyans want to know who the owners of Mobitelea are" while what the mean is "I want to know who the owners of Mobitelea are"

Truthfully, I am a Kenya; and I don't want to know because knowing will not increase the amount of ugali in my plate!
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
haiyaa
#12 Posted : Thursday, June 24, 2010 11:55:57 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 99
The competition is very stiff.Yes men /women need to up their act if they are to win.

Go to the grassroots.Funny the 'NO' are just saying 'NO' while the Yes are giving reasons.Is it that people just dont want the constitution for the sake or they have not understood the Draft?
kivairu
#13 Posted : Thursday, June 24, 2010 11:58:31 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/5/2008
Posts: 532
Location: Nairobi
Click on Yessmile and help your friends understand voting yes gives this country a new begining, a new vision, a new bearing.

Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. –Albert Einstein.
Millenium
#14 Posted : Thursday, June 24, 2010 11:14:46 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 6/24/2010
Posts: 3
Location: Kenya
Vote Yes, Yes yes: Where in Kenya since independence will you get 95% satisfying document;This is the chance; either vote yes or mortgage the country in reverse gear.
Keep It Simple Smart
Deer
#15 Posted : Friday, June 25, 2010 9:05:40 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 6/18/2010
Posts: 8
haiyaa wrote:
The competition is very stiff.Yes men /women need to up their act if they are to win.

Go to the grassroots.Funny the 'NO' are just saying 'NO' while the Yes are giving reasons.Is it that people just dont want the constitution for the sake or they have not understood the Draft?


@haiyaa

I vote NO because of the following troublesome aspects as explained by one Charles Kanjama:

1. Art 26 – Right to life.
• Art 26(3) “except to the extent authorised... or other written law.” This is problematic because it allows an Act of Parliament to derogate from the general constitutional right to life.
• Art 26(4) – The whole clause is problematic because it authorises abortion, because it talks of the individual unverified opinion of a health professional, because of the health of the mother exception and because it allows any other written law to derogate from the constitution.

2. Art 27 – Equality and freedom from discrimination.
• Art 27(4) introduces new prohibited grounds of discrimination i.e. pregnancy, marital status, health status, age, disability, religion, conscience, belief, culture, dress and language.
• Art 27(5) introduces an even larger expansion of rights against discrimination by extending the corresponding duty from the State and public persons to all other persons! Finally art 27(8) requires the State to take measures to ensure that all elective and appointive bodies have at least one third of members from each gender. It is not defined whether “bodies” means state, public or all bodies including private entities. The implications are astounding:
a. Some of the new prohibited grounds will introduce into our jurisdiction several of the problems being confronted by persons in some Western countries. E.g. churches and religious institutions having problems denying non-adherents certain services, schools being forced to integrate boys and girls, persons having a constitutional right to wear whatever they want and even to walk around in a state of undress in institutions, etc.
b. The extension of the duty against discrimination to private persons will cause untold mischief. I don’t think I need to spell out the various scenarios. Think about the ground “age” for instance.
c. Also sub-clause 8 has potential minefields if the courts were to later interpret bodies (as per their mandate for expansive interpretation of the bill of rights) to include private bodies e.g. private schools, churches, etc. It is not a far-fetched possibility.

3. Art 29 – Freedom and security of the person.
• Art 29(d) prohibits torture in any manner, where physical or psychological.
• Art 29(e) prohibits corporal punishment. The concern is with psychological torture and corporal punishment, which basically means that parents will find it difficult to punish their children without potentially contravening the Constitution. Mainly because the clause is worded in too generic a form. The State will eventually become more intrusive into family life through some form of Child Protection Services.

4. Art 30 – Slavery, servitude and forced labour.
• Art 30(2) prohibits forced labour. Because of the casual way in which the sub-clause is worded, this will mean even punishment in schools that involves labour, or any compelled labour even in homes is now proscribed.

5. Art 31 – The right to privacy has been made an absolute right without any derogations. I can’t begin to say how poorly this article has been worded.

6. Art 32 – Freedom of conscience, religion, belief and opinion. Interestingly, the imprecise wording of the COE draft has even managed to render the clause on conscience and free exercise of religion problematic. Art 32(3) states that a person may not be denied access to any institution, employment or facility... because of the person’s belief or religion. What this means is that only where the COE draft expressly provides otherwise (e.g. Kadhis’ Courts, religious practice (art 32(2)), will it be permissible to discriminate based on religion. So this excludes Church sponsored schools or indeed any other public or private institution. This also excludes any other activity that the Churches or other public or private institutions may be engaged in.

7. Art 33 – Freedom of expression.
• Art 33(1)(c). Freedom of artistic creativity – if not defined often ends up as a simple euphemism for pornography. Our current Constitution expressly derogates from the freedom of expression to the extent reasonably required in the interests of defence, public safety, public order, public morality or public health. You tell me what the absence of derogations from the COE draft implies.
Further, art 33(2)(c) expressly excludes hate speech and 33(2)(d) extends this to advocacy of hatred that constitutes vilification of others or is based on any ground of discrimination. Due to the casual way these rights have been worded, we may potentially find ourselves hindered from ever expressing our opinions on those defined groups falling under a discrimination category. In the Nordic countries, the UK and Canada, Christian preachers have been prosecuted for hate speech, for example for preaching against homosexuality or maybe atheism in our case.

8. Art 34 – Freedom of the media. There has been a long discussion between industry players and the Government on the content and regulation of the media in Kenya, culminating in the Media Act (2008?). Art 34 jettisons the achieved consensus and seeks to free the media of any control by government, political interests or commercial interests. Ask yourself how is this possible? Aren’t the owners of the media house commercial interest? Don’t political entities have the right to set up and run media stations? Shouldn’t the public interest in ensuring fairness in airwaves, access to information, decency, etc be provided for?

9. Art 43 – Economic and social rights.
• Art 43(1)(a) creates a right to reproductive health care. This clause is a very unnecessary clause.
a. First because it is subsumed under the general right to health care and is thus mere surplusage.
b. Second because the human body has numerous physiological systems including circulatory, respiratory, muscular, skeletal, nervous, excretory, digestive, hormonal, etc and there is no reason why the reproductive system should get preferential mention.
c. Third because reproductive health care is often used in certain sectors of the international community as a euphemism for a right to abortion.
• Art 43(2) talks about emergency medical treatment. This should be restricted to life-threatening or similar situations. Otherwise a situation where any sickness becomes deemed an emergency by the courts, or morning after pills become deemed emergency treatment, will develop.

10. Art 59 – This creates the Kenya National Human Rights and Equality Commission. This Commission will become a very powerful organ in Kenya’s future legal landscape under the COE Draft. It will have enforcement powers, investigative and determinative powers, etc. In art 59(1)(f), it is required to ensure compliance with obligations under treaties and conventions relating to human rights, and will thus be at the forefront of introducing to Kenya the understanding of foreign activist human rights bodies on moral issues.
Njung'e
#16 Posted : Friday, June 25, 2010 9:20:38 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
YES....Naona NO bado iko nyuma kama magoti ya kuku....lol.
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
Fundaah
#17 Posted : Friday, June 25, 2010 10:08:51 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,267
@ Deer
How do the reasons given above negate attaining of the goals vision 2030 as highlighted by Muganda?

Do you know the more you talk about abortion the more it will be procured.....Its like 'coke' advert .....the more you see and hear about it .... the more you will get a bottle in the next fast food cafe.....There are many young girls who never knew about abortion...now they are hearing about it from their pastors ......and they will try it....


Abortion is not permitted by the new law except when the health and life of the mother is in danger eg miscarriage , ectopic pregnancy.....is that hard to comprehend......any Mps who will want to make a law to permit it will be dealt with using the recall clause....


And Njung'e it may not be time to celebrate ..... as@ haiyaa has observed , Yes guys need to go to the grassroots .....especially Eastern and Central provinces ....and South rift ....North rift is a (NO)gone case.... but its not yet time to give up....we can get afew Yes votes their.....

Eastern Province is a more of protest case to Raila-Kalonzo on 2007 unsettled scores....not that the constitution is bad.....
alittle more education there can win people to the prosperity side ....ie 'Yes'...



The people have not yet received copies the draft at the grassroots.....they are only relying on the clergy on Sunday's ....the Grassroot clergy may not have even read the draft in totality to make an independent decision ... ..and remember most of them cant afford Neveready batteries for radio
civic education.... so they are depending of the 'town' counterparts .....who have said its bad...some for publicity purposes.....
Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
Fundaah
#18 Posted : Friday, June 25, 2010 10:27:50 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,267

Misunderstandings about the Human Rights(Yash Pal Ghai)


Right to life: On abortion, the Proposed Constitution says
Abortion is not permitted unless, in the opinion of a trained health professional, there is need for emergency treatment, or the life or health of the mother is in danger, or if permitted by any other written law.
This does not give anyone a right to demand an abortion. If an abortion is carried out to save the life or the health of the mother it would not be a crime. Parliament could pass a law to make abortions possible in other situations (for example if the pregnancy is the result of rape). But this would have to go through Parliament, and full public debate would take place. In fact, as the current law of Kenya is interpreted, it is very similar to the Proposed Constitution. Many years ago a Kenyan court applied English law and decided that abortion to save the life of the mother or avoid serious risk to the health of the mother was not unlawful. The Kenyan medical profession works on the assumption that this is the law. The mention of a “health professional” in the Proposed Constitution was included to deal with the possibility that in a rural area a doctor might not be available to certify the need for the abortion. The significance of the mention of “emergency treatment” is probably that is covers treatment that is not intended to harm the foetus but that would have the side effect of causing or necessitating an abortion (for example, in some countries with strict abortion laws, women suffering from cancer have been denied treatment because it would damage the foetus they are carrying – thus almost certainly condemning the women to death).
The current constitution actually has a very weak right to life: “no person shall be deprived of his right to life intentionally….”. Almost certainly that would not benefit an unborn child who is not legally “a person”.
Striking soldiers and police Almost certainly the Kenyan courts would decide that limiting the rights of the disciplined forces would be “justified in a democratic society” and therefore satisfied the requirements of Article 24. However, the Proposed Constitution says explicitly that Parliament can pass laws to deprive the forces of various rights including association and assembly. Such laws already exist in fact – so nothing will change. Apprehensions of rioting soldiers with guns as the result of the Proposed Constitution are nonsense. In fact the provisions seem rather hard on the forces – why should they have no right to privacy, no economic, social and cultural rights and no rights if arrested?
___________
In other words, voting “No” because of concerns about abortion or the fear of the forces going on strike will make no difference: the current constitution would remain in force, and under that constitution the situation is no different.
Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
McReggae
#19 Posted : Friday, June 25, 2010 10:43:57 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Deer,
Stop posting fowards here man, tell us your personal views against the draft after reading.......your post is simply a foward doing the rounds!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
Soko tele
#20 Posted : Friday, June 25, 2010 11:58:11 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/19/2008
Posts: 60
haiyaa wrote:

.Funny the 'NO' are just saying 'NO' while the Yes are giving reasons.Is it that people just dont want the constitution for the sake or they have not understood the Draft?


Your statement is not true.............NO people are giving their reasons for saying NO............what the yes camp is doing on the other hand is to discuss the individuals in NO and purporting they are misleading kenyans as opposed of telling the same kenyans why they should vote yes and discuss whats in the draft
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