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Anti-corruption Conference
radiomast
#21 Posted : Friday, January 25, 2019 10:55:17 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 428
Fighting corruption starts at the top. If president shows a commitment to fighting corruption then it will happen.
Fighting corruption also depends on the people. If you keep electing the very same people who became rich through corruption or whose families became rich through corruption then don't expect much.
murchr
#22 Posted : Friday, January 25, 2019 11:06:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
radiomast wrote:
Fighting corruption starts at the top. If president shows a commitment to fighting corruption then it will happen.
Fighting corruption also depends on the people. If you keep electing the very same people who became rich through corruption or whose families became rich through corruption then don't expect much.


Give us examples we have seen these simplistic arguments before
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Kusadikika
#23 Posted : Friday, January 25, 2019 11:13:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 2,716
Njunge wrote:
The graft war is too big for Maraga and this judiciary and i agree with Muchr. Time to bring in commonwealth judges to deal with corruption cases


I have to disagree with you here Guka. I have been reading Paul Mwangi's articles in the Nation and our judiciary system is so corrupted that we just have to invent a working kienyeji way of dispensing justice. Bringing Commonwealth judges will be just confounding the problem because you will be bringing people who are good at following due process and technicalities.

What we need are guys who know the spirit of the law and will not let the nitty gritty details of the letter of the law stand in the way. We need judges who will not be afraid to judge. The problem with Kenya is that everyone knows who the crooks are but the judges are just following the law to the letter and allowing objections. The crooks know the law very well and will never get convicted in the process as it is.

You need a few courageous cowboy lawyers and judges and some creativity in methods.

We need an activist judiciary against corruption. It was said that in the Kanu days Bernard Chunga used to get people in court at 5 in the morning. The lawyers for the Mwakenya guys would show up only to find their guy had already been sentenced and on the way to Kamiti. We need that kind of zeal against corruption. Let them be making appeals from Kamiti but get them there first.

Even in the US, they jail you first and then you start your appeals. Some guys get exonerated after 30 years in jail. I agree it is very unfair to the individual but I think to err on the side of severity is beneficial for the society as a whole.
murchr
#24 Posted : Friday, January 25, 2019 11:24:12 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Kusadikika wrote:
Njunge wrote:
The graft war is too big for Maraga and this judiciary and i agree with Muchr. Time to bring in commonwealth judges to deal with corruption cases


I have to disagree with you here Guka. I have been reading Paul Mwangi's articles in the Nation and our judiciary system is so corrupted that we just have to invent a working kienyeji way of dispensing justice. Bringing Commonwealth judges will be just confounding the problem because you will be bringing people who are good at following due process and technicalities.

What we need are guys who know the spirit of the law and will not let the nitty gritty details of the letter of the law stand in the way. We need judges who will not be afraid to judge. The problem with Kenya is that everyone knows who the crooks are but the judges are just following the law to the letter and allowing objections. The crooks know the law very well and will never get convicted in the process as it is.

You need a few courageous cowboy lawyers and judges and some creativity in methods.

We need an activist judiciary against corruption. It was said that in the Kanu days Bernard Chunga used to get people in court at 5 in the morning. The lawyers for the Mwakenya guys would show up only to find their guy had already been sentenced and on the way to Kamiti. We need that kind of zeal against corruption. Let them be making appeals from Kamiti but get them there first.

Even in the US, they jail you first and then you start your appeals. Some guys get exonerated after 30 years in jail. I agree it is very unfair to the individual but I think to err on the side of severity is beneficial for the society as a whole.



There is no way the judiciary can break the law...so it has to be followed to the letter.

The weakness in Kenya is not really the written law but (1) the "how" lawyers and some judges choose to interprete it ofcourse with some intention in mind.
(2) the time they take to carry out and determine justice.

As RAO pointed out today....A chicken thief is treated totally differently from a thief who's stolen public funds. Kabura is on record saying that she walked out with money in gunias from family bank....Family bank agreed to pay 64Million for carrying out those transactions.......so why is Kabura's case still in court?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
essyk
#25 Posted : Saturday, January 26, 2019 12:21:23 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/15/2011
Posts: 4,518
There was this gentleman sitted next to the UK Amb to Kenya Mr.Hailey.
It's a waste of time if guys implicated in corruption don't go to jail and their assets seized to prevent them from using the proceeds of corruption in interfering with cases,he said.
Jail is the best wake up call.

Maraga quoted the nys case stating that the files are too large and that it's going to take a loooong long time.I think he will retire before the cases are heard in full.Mzee hataki stress.

Uhuru today issued an order to Kihara.
How will they stop civil servant from transacting with goverment? They are known to use proxies and it's not a secret. Everyone wants to milk this country dry before they vacate office.

Is there a law prohibiting lawyers from disclosing their clients details including accounts for prosecution purposes cz uhuru is just pissed off with this hence the order.
"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.
murchr
#26 Posted : Saturday, January 26, 2019 1:36:56 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
essyk wrote:
There was this gentleman sitted next to the UK Amb to Kenya Mr.Hailey.
It's a waste of time if guys implicated in corruption don't go to jail and their assets seized to prevent them from using the proceeds of corruption in interfering with cases,he said.
Jail is the best wake up call.

Maraga quoted the nys case stating that the files are too large and that it's going to take a loooong long time.I think he will retire before the cases are heard in full.Mzee hataki stress.

Uhuru today issued an order to Kihara.
How will they stop civil servant from transacting with goverment? They are known to use proxies and it's not a secret. Everyone wants to milk this country dry before they vacate office.

Is there a law prohibiting lawyers from disclosing their clients details including accounts for prosecution purposes cz uhuru is just pissed off with this hence the order.


The AG was asked to draft a law prohibiting

1. Civil servants from being in business where there's conflict of interest.

2. Prevent lawyers in the various hse committees from representing clients in court and using the info gathered- another conflict of interest.

Its now upto the lawmakers, your mps to add or take awayfrom this law if they pass it, UK will sign it to law


Yes client privilege
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
tycho
#27 Posted : Saturday, January 26, 2019 8:55:02 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
How much does such a conference cost?

I like the idea that corruption can still make a profit from making itself a subject of discussion.
2012
#28 Posted : Saturday, January 26, 2019 10:27:28 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
Corruption is fought at the ballot not through commissions, judiciary, DPP, DCI and conferences.

BBI will solve it
:)
Ngalaka
#29 Posted : Saturday, January 26, 2019 10:53:36 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
radiomast wrote:
Fighting corruption starts at the top. If president shows a commitment to fighting corruption then it will happen.
Fighting corruption also depends on the people. If you keep electing the very same people who became rich through corruption or whose families became rich through corruption then don't expect much.

Spot on
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
Swenani
#30 Posted : Saturday, January 26, 2019 11:00:00 AM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
2012 wrote:
Corruption is fought at the ballot not through commissions, judiciary, DPP, DCI and conferences.

Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
tycho
#31 Posted : Saturday, January 26, 2019 11:51:03 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Corruption is a part of human nature therefore the war against corruption is a psycho-physical one.

For an individual to overcome corruption he/she must be trained and equipped for the invisible war.

Then let the individual go to battle, each defending his soul.

The war against corruption is called Jihad.

Yesterday, were they declaring jihad or were they presenting a comedy show?

For the voters? Choose the best election example then test for jihad.

We are fooling ourselves.
essyk
#32 Posted : Saturday, January 26, 2019 9:59:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/15/2011
Posts: 4,518
tycho wrote:
How much does such a conference cost?

I like the idea that corruption can still make a profit from making itself a subject of discussion.


Would also like to know the cost.
I hear that kirinyaga county is plannig another one at a cost of 94m.
If people don't go to jail we don't want to hear nyef nyef.
Steal and Shut up.
"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.
Gathige
#33 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2019 5:18:30 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 2,242
They should have invited chinaman to share his experience on how to deal with graft. The conference was all about shouting mwizi, mwizi, mwizi yet the person shouting is the mwizi.
"Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
Baratang
#34 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2019 3:45:08 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/6/2009
Posts: 587
tycho wrote:
Corruption is a part of human nature therefore the war against corruption is a psycho-physical one.

For an individual to overcome corruption he/she must be trained and equipped for the invisible war.

Then let the individual go to battle, each defending his soul.

The war against corruption is called Jihad.

Yesterday, were they declaring jihad or were they presenting a comedy show?

For the voters? Choose the best election example then test for jihad.

We are fooling ourselves.


Nope @tycho, the war against corruption is not not Jihad, but Jailhard.smile
masukuma
#35 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2019 6:47:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
Punchline



Alma and the rest need to hear this too

No one has the right to not be offended
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
murchr
#36 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2019 7:24:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
masukuma wrote:
murchr wrote:
Punchline



Alma and the rest need to hear this too


No one has the right to not be offended


Who said anyone has that right? Just get used to it {insert UKs laughter} Laughing out loudly
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
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