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Vertical vs Horizontal ..Flats vs one storey units
Rongla
#1 Posted : Sunday, December 16, 2018 4:37:41 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 101
l am contemplating doing up some bedsitters somewhere along the Eastern Bypass..Kamakis area.
l have 100 by 200 plot. Basically four plots of 50 by 100
From my little research the common place thinking is 'sell 2 or 3 plots and use the capital to build a flat on the Remaining plot' which kinda makes some sense.
However my thinking tells me l can achieve better results by doing things differently
Instead of building a block of flats on one plot.l instead build one storey units on the 4 plots,which will not only yield more units and more income, but will cost far much less than than a high rise flat.
This is on the assumption that the capital from the sale of 3 plots is equivalent to 40% of the total cost of building a block of flats whilst the one storey units will cost less than 50% the cost of similar units in a block of flat
Tell me Am dreamer or Come on and share my dream

Swenani
#2 Posted : Monday, December 17, 2018 10:38:39 AM
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Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
Building horizontal is more expensive than building vertically since you have to do separate foundation, roofing etc separately for each unit
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
MaichBlack
#3 Posted : Monday, December 17, 2018 10:39:07 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,455
Why not focus on one plot and do a flat with the money you were to use to do one storey units on the four plots???

Pour all the money in one plot and do a flat (to the level you can afford). Leave the other three plots vacant. To be built another day.

If you have money to build, forget you have four plots. Work on one....
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
Queen
#4 Posted : Monday, December 17, 2018 11:22:59 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/21/2018
Posts: 564
Location: Britain
Swenani wrote:
Building horizontal is more expensive than building vertically since you have to do separate foundation, roofing etc separately for each unit


The foundation for the two building types are different with the vertical type being more expensive and requiring reinforced concrete slabs at every floor.

Indeed unit for unit, the vertical building would end up being more expensive to construct. The only advantage accruing from constructing a highrise building is in the use of a smaller space on the ground(square area) that leaves the other three plots undeveloped and therefore available for future use.
MaichBlack
#5 Posted : Monday, December 17, 2018 3:45:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,455
Queen wrote:
Swenani wrote:
Building horizontal is more expensive than building vertically since you have to do separate foundation, roofing etc separately for each unit


The foundation for the two building types are different with the vertical type being more expensive and requiring reinforced concrete slabs at every floor.

Indeed unit for unit, the vertical building would end up being more expensive to construct. The only advantage accruing from constructing a highrise building is in the use of a smaller space on the ground(square area) that leaves the other three plots undeveloped and therefore available for future use.

And land in that area is at a premium. And that road has been earmarked for dualing. I would never build horizontally in that area!!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
Rongla
#6 Posted : Monday, December 17, 2018 6:18:30 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 101
Very interesting insights. Thank you all
A rough comperative analysis of the two construction layouts seems miles apart though. Both on the capital input and the returns on investment fronts.
The single storey units will cost just under KES 200k per unit meaning 100 units will cost about KES 20 million.
The returns from these units will be in the region of 500k to 700k per calender month assuming 100% occupancy. Recouping the capital invested in just over 3 years
Whereas with a high flat KES 20 million investment will probably finish 12 to 15 units. The returns on the completed units will be just under KES 100k.

So it will make economic sense if l was to demolish the single storey units after say 10 or 15 years and build high rise flats
MaichBlack
#7 Posted : Wednesday, December 19, 2018 10:28:53 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,455
Rongla wrote:
Very interesting insights. Thank you all
A rough comperative analysis of the two construction layouts seems miles apart though. Both on the capital input and the returns on investment fronts.
The single storey units will cost just under KES 200k per unit meaning 100 units will cost about KES 20 million.
The returns from these units will be in the region of 500k to 700k per calender month assuming 100% occupancy. Recouping the capital invested in just over 3 years
Whereas with a high flat KES 20 million investment will probably finish 12 to 15 units. The returns on the completed units will be just under KES 100k.

So it will make economic sense if l was to demolish the single storey units after say 10 or 15 years and build high rise flats

I think something is terribly wrong with your maths/estimations. 100 units (horizontal) vs 15 units (vertical) for the same amount???
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
bubethi
#8 Posted : Wednesday, December 19, 2018 12:31:49 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/17/2006
Posts: 94
Rongla wrote:
Very interesting insights. Thank you all
A rough comperative analysis of the two construction layouts seems miles apart though. Both on the capital input and the returns on investment fronts.
The single storey units will cost just under KES 200k per unit meaning 100 units will cost about KES 20 million.
The returns from these units will be in the region of 500k to 700k per calender month assuming 100% occupancy. Recouping the capital invested in just over 3 years
Whereas with a high flat KES 20 million investment will probably finish 12 to 15 units. The returns on the completed units will be just under KES 100k.

So it will make economic sense if l was to demolish the single storey units after say 10 or 15 years and build high rise flats


Meaning the area size of each of your units will be about 6 meters squared? Simply a space for only one single bed.
MugundaMan
#9 Posted : Thursday, December 20, 2018 8:54:29 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,211
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
MaichBlack wrote:
Why not focus on one plot and do a flat with the money you were to use to do one storey units on the four plots???

Pour all the money in one plot and do a flat (to the level you can afford). Leave the other three plots vacant. To be built another day.

If you have money to build, forget you have four plots. Work on one....


Smart man.
Pole pole ndio mwendo. The sweet thing about life and property in this here kenia is that kesho bado ni siku. I remember when I bought my first plot. I was very excited then after a few months I got very discouraged because I did not have all the moolah to build upon it all at once, and my income/assets were committed to various investments elsewhere. But life and money are funny things. Nilianza tu pole pole. Planting a few trees hapa, paying the architect hapo, building a gate pale, fencing hapo, shrowry by shrowry and voila. The flobrem with pipo is they want to build a whoole Nairobi city in a day. Haiwesekani hata kamwe. And they want to compete with others..ati nani has built so hata mimi I need to build asap nisiachwe nyuma! Who cares? Nanii has his life and you yours, life is NOT a competition. Maybe nani stole 200m at NYS while you are depending on clean money, so stay in your lane! Haba na haba hujaza kibaba with blood sweat and tears, baba. Just like someone trying to start a forest on a ten acre farm, if he takes and plants 5 seedlings a day for 300 days for 2 years straight..huyooooo ...his forest begins to take shape in a huge way from such a simple effort. But if he thought of doing it all in one day he might have gotten disappointed at the effort, labour, logistics and resources required and given up!
tom_boy
#10 Posted : Thursday, December 20, 2018 6:08:14 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
MugundaMan wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Why not focus on one plot and do a flat with the money you were to use to do one storey units on the four plots???

Pour all the money in one plot and do a flat (to the level you can afford). Leave the other three plots vacant. To be built another day.

If you have money to build, forget you have four plots. Work on one....


Smart man.
Pole pole ndio mwendo. The sweet thing about life and property in this here kenia is that kesho bado ni siku. I remember when I bought my first plot. I was very excited then after a few months I got very discouraged because I did not have all the moolah to build upon it all at once, and my income/assets were committed to various investments elsewhere. But life and money are funny things. Nilianza tu pole pole. Planting a few trees hapa, paying the architect hapo, building a gate pale, fencing hapo, shrowry by shrowry and voila. The flobrem with pipo is they want to build a whoole Nairobi city in a day. Haiwesekani hata kamwe. And they want to compete with others..ati nani has built so hata mimi I need to build asap nisiachwe nyuma! Who cares? Nanii has his life and you yours, life is NOT a competition. Maybe nani stole 200m at NYS while you are depending on clean money, so stay in your lane! Haba na haba hujaza kibaba with blood sweat and tears, baba. Just like someone trying to start a forest on a ten acre farm, if he takes and plants 5 seedlings a day for 300 days for 2 years straight..huyooooo ...his forest begins to take shape in a huge way from such a simple effort. But if he thought of doing it all in one day he might have gotten disappointed at the effort, labour, logistics and resources required and given up!


Hapo umenena kama wazee kumi.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
Impunity
#11 Posted : Thursday, December 20, 2018 7:12:22 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,328
Location: Masada
tom_boy wrote:
MugundaMan wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Why not focus on one plot and do a flat with the money you were to use to do one storey units on the four plots???

Pour all the money in one plot and do a flat (to the level you can afford). Leave the other three plots vacant. To be built another day.

If you have money to build, forget you have four plots. Work on one....


Smart man.
Pole pole ndio mwendo. The sweet thing about life and property in this here kenia is that kesho bado ni siku. I remember when I bought my first plot. I was very excited then after a few months I got very discouraged because I did not have all the moolah to build upon it all at once, and my income/assets were committed to various investments elsewhere. But life and money are funny things. Nilianza tu pole pole. Planting a few trees hapa, paying the architect hapo, building a gate pale, fencing hapo, shrowry by shrowry and voila. The flobrem with pipo is they want to build a whoole Nairobi city in a day. Haiwesekani hata kamwe. And they want to compete with others..ati nani has built so hata mimi I need to build asap nisiachwe nyuma! Who cares? Nanii has his life and you yours, life is NOT a competition. Maybe nani stole 200m at NYS while you are depending on clean money, so stay in your lane! Haba na haba hujaza kibaba with blood sweat and tears, baba. Just like someone trying to start a forest on a ten acre farm, if he takes and plants 5 seedlings a day for 300 days for 2 years straight..huyooooo ...his forest begins to take shape in a huge way from such a simple effort. But if he thought of doing it all in one day he might have gotten disappointed at the effort, labour, logistics and resources required and given up!


Hapo umenena kama wazee kumi.


Tom-boy, niaje?
Sasa?
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Thitifini
#12 Posted : Thursday, December 20, 2018 7:28:47 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/15/2015
Posts: 681
Location: Kenya
bubethi wrote:
Rongla wrote:
Very interesting insights. Thank you all
A rough comperative analysis of the two construction layouts seems miles apart though. Both on the capital input and the returns on investment fronts.
The single storey units will cost just under KES 200k per unit meaning 100 units will cost about KES 20 million.
The returns from these units will be in the region of 500k to 700k per calender month assuming 100% occupancy. Recouping the capital invested in just over 3 years
Whereas with a high flat KES 20 million investment will probably finish 12 to 15 units. The returns on the completed units will be just under KES 100k.

So it will make economic sense if l was to demolish the single storey units after say 10 or 15 years and build high rise flats


Meaning the area size of each of your units will be about 6 meters squared? Simply a space for only one single bed.


Mabati walls with first floor made of wood off-sets......that maybe can be close.....

60% Learning, 30% synthesizing, 10% Debating
Mkimwa
#13 Posted : Friday, December 21, 2018 11:31:16 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/26/2008
Posts: 380
Rongla wrote:
Very interesting insights. Thank you all
A rough comperative analysis of the two construction layouts seems miles apart though. Both on the capital input and the returns on investment fronts.
The single storey units will cost just under KES 200k per unit meaning 100 units will cost about KES 20 million.
The returns from these units will be in the region of 500k to 700k per calender month assuming 100% occupancy. Recouping the capital invested in just over 3 years
Whereas with a high flat KES 20 million investment will probably finish 12 to 15 units. The returns on the completed units will be just under KES 100k.

So it will make economic sense if l was to demolish the single storey units after say 10 or 15 years and build high rise flats


From experience, the maths given is skewed.

1. Going Horizontal:

20 units will fit comfortably on 1/8th for a 14ftx14ft internal dimensions. Therefore with 3/8th, you can do 60 units - ground floor only. If you choose to go up, you could lose 5 units coz of stairs, corridors. Hence 100 is a good conservative number, in theory you can do even 110 units, depending on plan.

200K per unit for bedsitters is on the lower side. 250K per unit works assuming you are not going up, i.e. ground floor only. With minimal chumaz, basic finishes, basic roofing, basic foundation.

Should you choose to go up one floor, then the cost per unit goes up to 350K per unit, going up has additional costs - extra slab, stronger foundation.

2. Going Vertical.
On 1/8th, you can do 12-15 units of bedsitters per floor when going up. 20m is enough to finish a 3 floor (G+3) building with the right cost management technique. Hence 20m can get you 50-60 units.

I suggest you start with 1/8th and go horizontal, but with a very strong foundation, such that you will not need to bomoa anything in 10-15 years. Invest strongly with a strong foundation, and see the costs for 1 floor.

Rongla
#14 Posted : Friday, December 21, 2018 8:01:52 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 101
Mkimwa wrote:
Rongla wrote:
Very interesting insights. Thank you all
A rough comperative analysis of the two construction layouts seems miles apart though. Both on the capital input and the returns on investment fronts.
The single storey units will cost just under KES 200k per unit meaning 100 units will cost about KES 20 million.
The returns from these units will be in the region of 500k to 700k per calender month assuming 100% occupancy. Recouping the capital invested in just over 3 years
Whereas with a high flat KES 20 million investment will probably finish 12 to 15 units. The returns on the completed units will be just under KES 100k.

So it will make economic sense if l was to demolish the single storey units after say 10 or 15 years and build high rise flats


From experience, the maths given is skewed.

1. Going Horizontal:

20 units will fit comfortably on 1/8th for a 14ftx14ft internal dimensions. Therefore with 3/8th, you can do 60 units - ground floor only. If you choose to go up, you could lose 5 units coz of stairs, corridors. Hence 100 is a good conservative number, in theory you can do even 110 units, depending on plan.

200K per unit for bedsitters is on the lower side. 250K per unit works assuming you are not going up, i.e. ground floor only. With minimal chumaz, basic finishes, basic roofing, basic foundation.

Should you choose to go up one floor, then the cost per unit goes up to 350K per unit, going up has additional costs - extra slab, stronger foundation.

2. Going Vertical.
On 1/8th, you can do 12-15 units of bedsitters per floor when going up. 20m is enough to finish a 3 floor (G+3) building with the right cost management technique. Hence 20m can get you 50-60 units.

I suggest you start with 1/8th and go horizontal, but with a very strong foundation, such that you will not need to bomoa anything in 10-15 years. Invest strongly with a strong foundation, and see the costs for 1 floor.


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