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Why investing in the NSE is fool's gold and a waste
Ali Baba
#31 Posted : Thursday, December 20, 2018 1:53:39 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/29/2008
Posts: 573
mv_ufanisi wrote:
Perhaps I have been a bit lucky in business but what I have found is that I feel that it is a much better use of my intellect, money and time precisely because I have a lot more control. It's the difference between being a spectator and standing on the sidelines, versus getting in the game yourself.

The good thing about the mistakes I've made in business is that I get better over time as I learn to avoid those mistakes. So it's something that has taken moving through a lot of failure to eventually get to success.

People are taught to be eternal optimists but you have to understand the fundamental forces that affect the NSE. It's not a pendulum that just goes back and forth without any reason.

Companies are real entities; they can go bankrupt and go to zero in value e.g. Mumias Sugar. I pity the shareholders who assumed that the company would come back simply because it was listed in the NSE. There are more real fundamental forces such as profitability and good governance which affect the direction that the markets take.

Let's take the example of Centum, their management have received perhaps billions in bonuses while shareholders have lost value. So you've got companies being run for the benefit of management not shareholders. This dichotomy relationship in an area with low trust and accountability is what makes the NSE a particularly more dangerous place to play in.

The NSE has stagnated over the past few years for some reason. No new companies are joining the NSE while a number of listed companies are practically dead or have delisted.
I agree with you.One of the major problems at NSE is lack of enforcement of the law.Secondly,I believe parastatals should not be listed as they are driven more by politics than real economic forces.Listed parastatals should either be de-listed or government should dilute its stake.The leadership at CMA since the departure of Stella Kilonzo has been wanting.We should get new leaders at CMA,Paul Muthaura,maybe should become an ambassador for Kenya in Kiribati.
AndyC
#32 Posted : Thursday, December 20, 2018 2:52:36 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 4/21/2015
Posts: 151
Ali Baba wrote:
mv_ufanisi wrote:
Perhaps I have been a bit lucky in business but what I have found is that I feel that it is a much better use of my intellect, money and time precisely because I have a lot more control. It's the difference between being a spectator and standing on the sidelines, versus getting in the game yourself.

The good thing about the mistakes I've made in business is that I get better over time as I learn to avoid those mistakes. So it's something that has taken moving through a lot of failure to eventually get to success.

People are taught to be eternal optimists but you have to understand the fundamental forces that affect the NSE. It's not a pendulum that just goes back and forth without any reason.

Companies are real entities; they can go bankrupt and go to zero in value e.g. Mumias Sugar. I pity the shareholders who assumed that the company would come back simply because it was listed in the NSE. There are more real fundamental forces such as profitability and good governance which affect the direction that the markets take.

Let's take the example of Centum, their management have received perhaps billions in bonuses while shareholders have lost value. So you've got companies being run for the benefit of management not shareholders. This dichotomy relationship in an area with low trust and accountability is what makes the NSE a particularly more dangerous place to play in.

The NSE has stagnated over the past few years for some reason. No new companies are joining the NSE while a number of listed companies are practically dead or have delisted.
I agree with you.One of the major problems at NSE is lack of enforcement of the law.Secondly,I believe parastatals should not be listed as they are driven more by politics than real economic forces.Listed parastatals should either be de-listed or government should dilute its stake.The leadership at CMA since the departure of Stella Kilonzo has been wanting.We should get new leaders at CMA,Paul Muthaura,maybe should become an ambassador for Kenya in Kiribati.


KiribatiLaughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly would be perfect for the country's blue economy interests.
XSK
#33 Posted : Thursday, December 20, 2018 2:53:16 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 12/8/2009
Posts: 975
Location: Nairobi
tom_boy wrote:
In Kenyan investing, it seems you can lose money no matter what you do

Keep it in the bank, and the bank shuts down ala Chase and Imperial

Keep it in a money market fund and you risk a 30% haircut courtesy of Nakumatt bond.

Go to NSE, crooks all over the place.

Try start a biz, kanju regulations, lazy dishonest employees etc etc

Invest offshore and Kenyan inflation will gobble up your 3-4% usd gains per annum while intermediaries feast on whats left.

Do real estate and have to deal with approvals systems that are just gravy trains for the powers that be.

Yenyewe, bora uhai.


@tom_boy I share the highlighted pain. I never thought I would see this ever!

I have seen it courtesy of amana



You will know that you have arrived when money and time are not mutually exclusive "events" in you life!
Impunity
#34 Posted : Thursday, December 20, 2018 7:15:01 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,331
Location: Masada
XSK wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
In Kenyan investing, it seems you can lose money no matter what you do

Keep it in the bank, and the bank shuts down ala Chase and Imperial

Keep it in a money market fund and you risk a 30% haircut courtesy of Nakumatt bond.

Go to NSE, crooks all over the place.

Try start a biz, kanju regulations, lazy dishonest employees etc etc

Invest offshore and Kenyan inflation will gobble up your 3-4% usd gains per annum while intermediaries feast on whats left.

Do real estate and have to deal with approvals systems that are just gravy trains for the powers that be.

Yenyewe, bora uhai.


@tom_boy I share the highlighted pain. I never thought I would see this ever!

I have seen it courtesy of amana





Gai. What did Amana capital do to your savings?
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

Mike Ock
#35 Posted : Friday, December 21, 2018 2:30:14 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/22/2015
Posts: 682
tom_boy wrote:
In Kenyan investing, it seems you can lose money no matter what you do

Keep it in the bank, and the bank shuts down ala Chase and Imperial

Keep it in a money market fund and you risk a 30% haircut courtesy of Nakumatt bond.

Go to NSE, crooks all over the place.

Try start a biz, kanju regulations, lazy dishonest employees etc etc

Invest offshore and Kenyan inflation will gobble up your 3-4% usd gains per annum while intermediaries feast on whats left.

Do real estate and have to deal with approvals systems that are just gravy trains for the powers that be.

Yenyewe, bora uhai.


Man. In this Kenya, once you find something that is working for you(job/freelance/business/investing), hold on for dear life and milk it for all it's worth.
hamburglar
#36 Posted : Thursday, December 27, 2018 1:37:11 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/17/2011
Posts: 887

Man. In this Kenya, once you find something that is working for you(job/freelance/business/investing), hold on for dear life and milk it for all it's worth.
[/quote]

Very wise sentiments. Stick it out the whole way and don’t even try to dabble into other ventures that you are not familiar with. Stick to what you know best and milk it to death. I always see people who have a somewhat successful trade or job trying their hand at things they have no clue in and at the expense of what was working for them. More often than not, both gigs end up going belly up because of greed. Nothing wrong with delving into other things but make sure you don’t divagate from your cash cow. That’s the point.
the deal
#37 Posted : Friday, December 28, 2018 5:25:21 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
I wonder what you people will be posting once the bull run returns... We are closer to the bottom than before!

The NSE is like any business... There are good and bad times unfortunately these are the bad times at the NSE... Stay strong...
Muthawamunene
#38 Posted : Friday, December 28, 2018 9:09:11 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/3/2011
Posts: 264
Location: Nairobi
the deal wrote:
I wonder what you people will be posting once the bull run returns... We are closer to the bottom than before!

The NSE is like any business... There are good and bad times unfortunately these are the bad times at the NSE... Stay strong...


The tide is ebbing away. You can almost see those dollars flying back home to be put to rest by the Fed as it reduces it's balance sheet.

Counters that had been nicknamed "growth stocks" and given lofty multiples are getting whacked mercilessly; just look at Equity.

These are the times when true investors step to the plate. Those who believe in growth. Those who are in it to buy part of a business that they see something in.

These investors will reap cash flow in form of dividend if these growth companies actually grow. Age and time are your friends. Choosing the right stock here is as important as choosing a mate.

We pray for health, good fortune and that we maintain income so that we won't have to sell at an inopportune time.
mv_ufanisi
#39 Posted : Friday, December 28, 2018 10:53:32 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/15/2010
Posts: 625
the deal wrote:
I wonder what you people will be posting once the bull run returns... We are closer to the bottom than before!

The NSE is like any business... There are good and bad times unfortunately these are the bad times at the NSE... Stay strong...


The NSE is not like any business. It is a constituent of a number of businesses listed within it.
I think the NSE has fundamental problems within it that makes it an inaccurate or misleading measure of economic activity and results in Kenya.
the deal
#40 Posted : Saturday, December 29, 2018 12:06:44 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
mv_ufanisi wrote:
the deal wrote:
I wonder what you people will be posting once the bull run returns... We are closer to the bottom than before!

The NSE is like any business... There are good and bad times unfortunately these are the bad times at the NSE... Stay strong...


The NSE is not like any business. It is a constituent of a number of businesses listed within it.
I think the NSE has fundamental problems within it that makes it an inaccurate or misleading measure of economic activity and results in Kenya.



Hmmm which sectors of the Kenyan economy are these which are delivering exceptional results?


Please I don't want to hear about state contracts or tendering...I don't consider people who build they're businesses via state contracts as real entrepreneurs!
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