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Why investing in the NSE is fool's gold and a waste
mv_ufanisi
#1 Posted : Saturday, December 08, 2018 12:15:22 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/15/2010
Posts: 625
Why investing in the NSE is a waste of your intellect and money and is the Kenyan reincarnation of "fool's gold"

definition:
fool's gold is also known as pyrite iron, fool's gold is a gold-colored mineral that is often mistaken for real gold but has no value

1. Your investment is subject to the whims of the market and a lot of factors outside your control. If it was your small business facing these challenges at least you have the opportunity to deal with the problems yourself or talk to that resourceful friend that could sort you out. At the NSE you have to stand on the sidelines and wring your hands as management fumbles with simple things that you would know how to deal with.

2. You will get a false sense of achievement. Naturally when the market goes up you will be on a false high. You won't understand why you were successful, preparing you to make large mistakes in the future. Your high will be more similar to that of a gambler than that of a business owner who has acquired real knowledge and experience.

3. You are entrusting your money with management in an environment of low trust and poor law enforcement. How many NSE companies have had corrupt management? It doesn't even matter if the company is doing well or not. Your company could be in a great industry where it should be making a lot of profits but management finds a way to steal the value from you in the form of bonuses, side deals and tenders to related parties etc. There are many companies in the NSE where management has done very well for themselves in the last 5 years while shareholders have lost value.

4. We as a continent are not there yet. We have very few companies listed in African stock markets precisely because we have too few companies in Africa. We are in an time period where we are called to be pioneers and build companies, yet unfortunately most of us have been educated using a syllabus suited for the developed world Wall Street BS. Your situation as an African if you look towards the West or specifically the US for inspiration should be more similar to the pioneers who first immigrated to the United States of America and had to build everything from scratch. That is where most African countries are. Not Wall Street level! The smart person is the one that can tell the difference.

5. It's a poor investment. You are much better off putting your hard earned money in CBK treasury bills and bonds and getting 9%-10% a year than losing 40%-60% of it in the NSE. If you want unlimited upside possibility take a small percentage of your assets say 10% and either start a small company or fund one where you have the ability to use your intellect, connections and money to grow the value of your investment. Worst case if you lose the 10% you still have the 90% of your assets intact.

6. You will waste your time and intellect analyzing the NSE than using it to solve society's problems and generate wealth for yourself. There are brilliant people on Wazua with great intellect and insights but unfortunately that is wasted because they are not able to implement their ideas. That intellect would generate a lot more return solving problems in a small company.

That is why a few years ago, I sold all my NSE equity, started a company in stead and made a lot lot more return for myself while creating much needed jobs in the economy.
obiero
#2 Posted : Saturday, December 08, 2018 4:10:25 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 14,318
Location: nairobi
@mv_ufanisi you have a point, the NSE is riddled with too many corrupt firms. I happen to know the inside of boards in many of the companies and I would not trust them to hold my spectacles, let alone hard earned cash.. Only 13 solid firms are investable, with proper management and promise of reasonable prospects for sizable ROI or at worst, negligible loss
1.KCB
2.KQ
3.BAT
4.Co-op
5.Safaricom
6 Equity
7.DTB
8.Jubilee
9.PAFR
10.TPSEA
11.BK
12.KEGN
13.TOTAL
COOP, IMH, KEGN, KQ, MTNU
the deal
#3 Posted : Saturday, December 08, 2018 4:34:55 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
mv_ufanisi wrote:
Why investing in the NSE is a waste of your intellect and money and is the Kenyan reincarnation of "fool's gold"

definition:
fool's gold is also known as pyrite iron, fool's gold is a gold-colored mineral that is often mistaken for real gold but has no value

1. Your investment is subject to the whims of the market and a lot of factors outside your control. If it was your small business facing these challenges at least you have the opportunity to deal with the problems yourself or talk to that resourceful friend that could sort you out. At the NSE you have to stand on the sidelines and wring your hands as management fumbles with simple things that you would know how to deal with.

2. You will get a false sense of achievement. Naturally when the market goes up you will be on a false high. You won't understand why you were successful, preparing you to make large mistakes in the future. Your high will be more similar to that of a gambler than that of a business owner who has acquired real knowledge and experience.

3. You are entrusting your money with management in an environment of low trust and poor law enforcement. How many NSE companies have had corrupt management? It doesn't even matter if the company is doing well or not. Your company could be in a great industry where it should be making a lot of profits but management finds a way to steal the value from you in the form of bonuses, side deals and tenders to related parties etc. There are many companies in the NSE where management has done very well for themselves in the last 5 years while shareholders have lost value.

4. We as a continent are not there yet. We have very few companies listed in African stock markets precisely because we have too few companies in Africa. We are in an time period where we are called to be pioneers and build companies, yet unfortunately most of us have been educated using a syllabus suited for the developed world Wall Street BS. Your situation as an African if you look towards the West or specifically the US for inspiration should be more similar to the pioneers who first immigrated to the United States of America and had to build everything from scratch. That is where most African countries are. Not Wall Street level! The smart person is the one that can tell the difference.

5. It's a poor investment. You are much better off putting your hard earned money in CBK treasury bills and bonds and getting 9%-10% a year than losing 40%-60% of it in the NSE. If you want unlimited upside possibility take a small percentage of your assets say 10% and either start a small company or fund one where you have the ability to use your intellect, connections and money to grow the value of your investment. Worst case if you lose the 10% you still have the 90% of your assets intact.

6. You will waste your time and intellect analyzing the NSE than using it to solve society's problems and generate wealth for yourself. There are brilliant people on Wazua with great intellect and insights but unfortunately that is wasted because they are not able to implement their ideas. That intellect would generate a lot more return solving problems in a small company.

That is why a few years ago, I sold all my NSE equity, started a company in stead and made a lot lot more return for myself while creating much needed jobs in the economy.



Long post but you are 100% wrong here...


Alot of people on wazua or at the NSE are business people or politicians... Your MPs... Almost all CEOs of listed companies come here...


Some people prefer to invest in mature businesses instead of start ups

Start ups are more risky compared to the NSE...


Conclusion :" you are wrong please deleted this post...


NSE is not for everyone...
Cde Monomotapa
#4 Posted : Saturday, December 08, 2018 7:00:40 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
mv_ufanisi wrote:
Why investing in the NSE is a waste of your intellect and money and is the Kenyan reincarnation of "fool's gold"

definition:
fool's gold is also known as pyrite iron, fool's gold is a gold-colored mineral that is often mistaken for real gold but has no value

1. Your investment is subject to the whims of the market and a lot of factors outside your control. If it was your small business facing these challenges at least you have the opportunity to deal with the problems yourself or talk to that resourceful friend that could sort you out. At the NSE you have to stand on the sidelines and wring your hands as management fumbles with simple things that you would know how to deal with.

2. You will get a false sense of achievement. Naturally when the market goes up you will be on a false high. You won't understand why you were successful, preparing you to make large mistakes in the future. Your high will be more similar to that of a gambler than that of a business owner who has acquired real knowledge and experience.

3. You are entrusting your money with management in an environment of low trust and poor law enforcement. How many NSE companies have had corrupt management? It doesn't even matter if the company is doing well or not. Your company could be in a great industry where it should be making a lot of profits but management finds a way to steal the value from you in the form of bonuses, side deals and tenders to related parties etc. There are many companies in the NSE where management has done very well for themselves in the last 5 years while shareholders have lost value.

4. We as a continent are not there yet. We have very few companies listed in African stock markets precisely because we have too few companies in Africa. We are in an time period where we are called to be pioneers and build companies, yet unfortunately most of us have been educated using a syllabus suited for the developed world Wall Street BS. Your situation as an African if you look towards the West or specifically the US for inspiration should be more similar to the pioneers who first immigrated to the United States of America and had to build everything from scratch. That is where most African countries are. Not Wall Street level! The smart person is the one that can tell the difference.

5. It's a poor investment. You are much better off putting your hard earned money in CBK treasury bills and bonds and getting 9%-10% a year than losing 40%-60% of it in the NSE. If you want unlimited upside possibility take a small percentage of your assets say 10% and either start a small company or fund one where you have the ability to use your intellect, connections and money to grow the value of your investment. Worst case if you lose the 10% you still have the 90% of your assets intact.

6. You will waste your time and intellect analyzing the NSE than using it to solve society's problems and generate wealth for yourself. There are brilliant people on Wazua with great intellect and insights but unfortunately that is wasted because they are not able to implement their ideas. That intellect would generate a lot more return solving problems in a small company.

That is why a few years ago, I sold all my NSE equity, started a company in stead and made a lot lot more return for myself while creating much needed jobs in the economy.


Applause
mv_ufanisi
#5 Posted : Saturday, December 08, 2018 7:27:45 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/15/2010
Posts: 625
the deal wrote:
mv_ufanisi wrote:
Why investing in the NSE is a waste of your intellect and money and is the Kenyan reincarnation of "fool's gold"

definition:
fool's gold is also known as pyrite iron, fool's gold is a gold-colored mineral that is often mistaken for real gold but has no value

1. Your investment is subject to the whims of the market and a lot of factors outside your control. If it was your small business facing these challenges at least you have the opportunity to deal with the problems yourself or talk to that resourceful friend that could sort you out. At the NSE you have to stand on the sidelines and wring your hands as management fumbles with simple things that you would know how to deal with.

2. You will get a false sense of achievement. Naturally when the market goes up you will be on a false high. You won't understand why you were successful, preparing you to make large mistakes in the future. Your high will be more similar to that of a gambler than that of a business owner who has acquired real knowledge and experience.

3. You are entrusting your money with management in an environment of low trust and poor law enforcement. How many NSE companies have had corrupt management? It doesn't even matter if the company is doing well or not. Your company could be in a great industry where it should be making a lot of profits but management finds a way to steal the value from you in the form of bonuses, side deals and tenders to related parties etc. There are many companies in the NSE where management has done very well for themselves in the last 5 years while shareholders have lost value.

4. We as a continent are not there yet. We have very few companies listed in African stock markets precisely because we have too few companies in Africa. We are in an time period where we are called to be pioneers and build companies, yet unfortunately most of us have been educated using a syllabus suited for the developed world Wall Street BS. Your situation as an African if you look towards the West or specifically the US for inspiration should be more similar to the pioneers who first immigrated to the United States of America and had to build everything from scratch. That is where most African countries are. Not Wall Street level! The smart person is the one that can tell the difference.

5. It's a poor investment. You are much better off putting your hard earned money in CBK treasury bills and bonds and getting 9%-10% a year than losing 40%-60% of it in the NSE. If you want unlimited upside possibility take a small percentage of your assets say 10% and either start a small company or fund one where you have the ability to use your intellect, connections and money to grow the value of your investment. Worst case if you lose the 10% you still have the 90% of your assets intact.

6. You will waste your time and intellect analyzing the NSE than using it to solve society's problems and generate wealth for yourself. There are brilliant people on Wazua with great intellect and insights but unfortunately that is wasted because they are not able to implement their ideas. That intellect would generate a lot more return solving problems in a small company.

That is why a few years ago, I sold all my NSE equity, started a company in stead and made a lot lot more return for myself while creating much needed jobs in the economy.



Long post but you are 100% wrong here...


Alot of people on wazua or at the NSE are business people or politicians... Your MPs... Almost all CEOs of listed companies come here...


Some people prefer to invest in mature businesses instead of start ups

Start ups are more risky compared to the NSE...


Conclusion :" you are wrong please deleted this post...


NSE is not for everyone...


I know what I'm talking about because I've been there, done that.

I used to be one of those suckers who would read company Annual Reports from cover to cover, scrutinize financial statements, attend AGMs and the like, watch the NSE Trades like a hawk, spend time crawling Wazua posts, all in an effort to improve my stock picking.

Now as a small business owner, I might have a meeting to think about how to provide better services to our customers and by the end I will improve aspects of product which usually leads to an increase in revenues.

The same amount of effort I was using on the NSE, put into my business gives me a lot more return and I'm getting better and better at running my business which will lead to more value in the future.

I'm gaining real knowledge and skills while creating jobs, paying taxes, solving important needs in the society while making much more than I would have made at the NSE.

The NSE is a lot more risky than a start up in my honest opinion. The hidden risk is that your NSE company is being run by other people who could steal your value and you have nothing really to do about it, you are also missing out on the opportunity to deploy your intellect and hard work to improve your outcome and learn about the real world by creating a new company or funding a new company with a team that you believe in and have real influence over.
tom_boy
#6 Posted : Saturday, December 08, 2018 8:27:37 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
Both wrong and right. To each his own.

However, most new businesses fail by the 3rd to 5th yr. Thats why its so hard to get any funding for new business. You must first show that it is profitable.

Hardly anyone invests in the stock market as their primary source of income. So you are the fool to have tried doing that. Otherwise stop lying to us that you are applying the same effort applied to the nse now converted to your business.

All markets are cyclical and subject to the emotions of the time, not just the NSE.

Good luck with your business but stop lying to us that the same effort you apply to your business is the same effort you applied picking stocks, coz that makes stock picking a full time biz for you at the time thus making you the fool. ( repetition for emphasis).

Research shows that over the long term, stock market outperforms all other forms of investment. Challenge is that we have no data on how many new businesses were started in last 10-15yrs and what is the cummulative growth or lack of growth from those businesses. So comparing a single business to the NSE is not correct.

They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
Ericsson
#7 Posted : Saturday, December 08, 2018 10:04:04 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,819
Location: NAIROBI
tom_boy wrote:
Both wrong and right. To each his own.

However, most new businesses fail by the 3rd to 5th yr. Thats why its so hard to get any funding for new business. You must first show that it is profitable.

Hardly anyone invests in the stock market as their primary source of income. So you are the fool to have tried doing that. Otherwise stop lying to us that you are applying the same effort applied to the nse now converted to your business.

All markets are cyclical and subject to the emotions of the time, not just the NSE.

Good luck with your business but stop lying to us that the same effort you apply to your business is the same effort you applied picking stocks, coz that makes stock picking a full time biz for you at the time thus making you the fool. ( repetition for emphasis).

Research shows that over the long term, stock market outperforms all other forms of investment. Challenge is that we have no data on how many new businesses were started in last 10-15yrs and what is the cummulative growth or lack of growth from those businesses. So comparing a single business to the NSE is not correct.


Very strong point tom_boy.
Nse is not for everyone same as running a business isn't for everyone
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
mv_ufanisi
#8 Posted : Saturday, December 08, 2018 10:11:20 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/15/2010
Posts: 625
tom_boy wrote:
Both wrong and right. To each his own.

However, most new businesses fail by the 3rd to 5th yr. Thats why its so hard to get any funding for new business. You must first show that it is profitable.

Hardly anyone invests in the stock market as their primary source of income. So you are the fool to have tried doing that. Otherwise stop lying to us that you are applying the same effort applied to the nse now converted to your business.

All markets are cyclical and subject to the emotions of the time, not just the NSE.

Good luck with your business but stop lying to us that the same effort you apply to your business is the same effort you applied picking stocks, coz that makes stock picking a full time biz for you at the time thus making you the fool. ( repetition for emphasis).

Research shows that over the long term, stock market outperforms all other forms of investment. Challenge is that we have no data on how many new businesses were started in last 10-15yrs and what is the cummulative growth or lack of growth from those businesses. So comparing a single business to the NSE is not correct.



Your statement

"Research shows that over the long term, stock market outperforms all other forms of investment."

above needs to be analyzed for accuracy because it is quite misleading.

Does the stock market referenced in the above statement refer to the Nairobi Stock Exchange, Nigeria Stock Exchange, the NASDAQ, DOW or other stock market? Because those are not the same "animals".

Has there any research being done to show that in Kenya, the NSE has been a net accumulator of wealth compared to other options?

Over the last 10 years, the NSE has been a net capital destroyer with the NSE Index going from 3000 to 2819, while the boring but slow and steady CBK bills and bonds would have returned a 10% annual interest which compounded over 10 years would have returned more than 2.5X

Even in the USA, among millionaire households, 50% of them are business owners according to research in the widely acclaimed book "The Millionaire Next Door."

sparkly
#9 Posted : Saturday, December 08, 2018 10:44:39 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
1. @mv-fanisi your observations help to debunk stock investment myths. It is surprising that you had to go through all that experience to learn your lessons which you could have picked from basic business education text book.

2. There are three basic ways to make money: sell your labour (employment); run a business; or economic rents.

3. Employment is straight forward. You sell your services to one customer (your employer) who takes care for other factors of production ie land, labour, capital goods and entrepreneurship.

4. As a businessman, whether selling goods or services, you organize the factors of production to make money. A stocks dealer or broker is a businessman. He makes money in all market conditions but the quantum is determined by his skills as an entreprenuer.

5. Economic rents arise from passive investment of property, liquid and illiquid. You can rent out your house for a monthly income. You can license out a patented idea to manufacturers. Bank savings are money rented out to businesses and consumers through the bank as an intermediary. T-Bills are money rented out to government to provide public services. Stock investment is money rented out to businesses with a right to residual income of the business.

6. All the three sources of income have levels of risk and reward. e.g your can get fired from employment, your business can fail, the banks/goverment can go bust and the stock investment company may not have residual income to distribute.

7. Back to your experience. If you wanted to make sure money from stocks trading, you should have obtained a dealer's/ brokerage/ Financial Manager/Agency license and put in the time and resources.

8. T-Bills and stocks are in the same category of passive rental investments. You need a substantial outlay to make meaningful income from both. If you don't have the means, you make the money from employment and business to invest in T-Bills and stocks.
Life is short. Live passionately.
Monk
#10 Posted : Saturday, December 08, 2018 11:53:36 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/1/2009
Posts: 274
obiero wrote:
@mv_ufanisi you have a point, the NSE is riddled with too many corrupt firms. I happen to know the inside of boards in many of the companies and I would not trust them to hold my spectacles, let alone hard earned cash.. Only 13 solid firms are investable, with proper management and promise of reasonable prospects for sizable ROI or at worst, negligible loss
1.KCB
2.KQ
3.BAT
4.Co-op
5.Safaricom
6 Equity
7.DTB
8.Jubilee
9.PAFR
10.TPSEA
11.BK
12.KEGN
13.TOTAL


@Obiero you have a wicked sense of humour Laughing out loudly
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