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Insightful take on Nairobi Real Estate
Rank: New-farer Joined: 5/19/2014 Posts: 68 Location: Migori
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MugundaMan wrote:wukan wrote:Gosh! I wouldn't want to hangout with you at a cocktail, you can't move a conversation forward I have to spell it out for you. I'm just posting stuff on the nairobi real estate as the title of this thread is "Insightful take on Nairobi Real Estate". Your insights on nairobi real estate are most welcome. If you have none then stick to dustbowl insights You mean regarding the Kirinyaga Rd "luxury bedsitters?"  Who brought them up on this forum? And isn't Kirinyaga rd in Nairobi and hence worthy of this discussion? Congratulations @Mugundaman you just made the century post on the thread Learning to sit on my hands
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,103 Location: Nairobi
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whiteowl wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:whiteowl wrote:Thika Arcade is one of biggest buildings in Thika CBD.During the 90's I used to think that the owner was very stupid for having such a huge building that was vacant past the first floor.Today it fetches 50k/month rent even for the top floors.In real estate,if the location is right you can only get burned by financing a project with short term credit. How long was it vacant? I dont have an exact timeline but it was quite a number of years during Moi era.When Kibaki took over,the economy took off and it started enjoying full occupancy and other taller buildings started coming up. That was a long time to wait. It seems he did not finance it with loans. Thika Highway did open up the area. Good for him! Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/6/2009 Posts: 587
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It appears real estate in Kenya is going haywire... Kenya’s property market is sitting on sinking sand@2012 noted seven pages of real estate auctions advertisement in a newspaper a while ago meaning that things are really thick...
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 9/4/2018 Posts: 64 Location: Nairobi
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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This guy is talking much yet saying a big round zero. Is he related to Lukorito Jones? The guy does not even have a clue what he is talking about especially with regards to basic economics: supply and demand. He readily admits that the housing deficit is real, then argues in a very amateurish way (without providing concrete and verifiable figures) how that deficit is close to irrelevant . Then (like a very well known Wazoo personality) he paints growth as a "decline" because the rate of growth slowed a bit. That's like saying your shares in Centum "declined in value" because instead of rising from 28 to 35 like they did last year, they rose from 35 to 36! Total balderdash! Growth is growth!I will tell him like I have told every other naysayer on Wazoo and beyond: WAKE US UP WHEN YOU REPEAL THE LAWS OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND NOT JUST IN KENYA BUT IN THE WHOLE WORLD. The commies tried and failed miserably. No force on earth can tame the supply vs demand dynamic. None! The sprawling Kenyan middle class is growing in both wealth, experience and expertise and is the prime source of domestic demand - the lifeblood of any economy worth its salt. This middle class is an almost virtually unlimited source of demand over its lifetime, meaning, if a middle class Kenyan is earning a decent income from his investments and/or payslip and has a house, it is only a matter of time before his savings have accumulated again to the point he can buy yet another house and/or invest in real estate allied businesses in a beautiful cycle that will only end at the grave. Remember Kenya has a paltry number of mortgages (which is a wonderful thing) meaning the sprawling middle class either buys cash or near cash (buys plots, builds slowly over time and repeats) meaning unlike other casino economies, the wealth of Kenya's middle classes is built painstakingly and securely over time which reduces micro-risk to almost zero for them.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/8/2008 Posts: 947
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MugundaMan wrote: This guy is talking much yet saying a big round zero. Is he related to Lukorito Jones? The guy does not even have a clue what he is talking about especially with regards to basic economics: supply and demand. He readily admits that the housing deficit is real, then argues in a very amateurish way (without providing concrete and verifiable figures) how that deficit is close to irrelevant . Then (like a very well known Wazoo personality) he paints growth as a "decline" because the rate of growth slowed a bit. That's like saying your shares in Centum "declined in value" because instead of rising from 28 to 35 like they did last year, they rose from 35 to 36! Total balderdash! Growth is growth!I will tell him like I have told every other naysayer on Wazoo and beyond: WAKE US UP WHEN YOU REPEAL THE LAWS OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND NOT JUST IN KENYA BUT IN THE WHOLE WORLD. The commies tried and failed miserably. No force on earth can tame the supply vs demand dynamic. None! The sprawling Kenyan middle class is growing in both wealth, experience and expertise and is the prime source of domestic demand - the lifeblood of any economy worth its salt. This middle class is an almost virtually unlimited source of demand over its lifetime, meaning, if a middle class Kenyan is earning a decent income from his investments and/or payslip and has a house, it is only a matter of time before his savings have accumulated again to the point he can buy yet another house and/or invest in real estate allied businesses in a beautiful cycle that will only end at the grave. Remember Kenya has a paltry number of mortgages (which is a wonderful thing) meaning the sprawling middle class either buys cash or near cash (buys plots, builds slowly over time and repeats) meaning unlike other casino economies, the wealth of Kenya's middle classes is built painstakingly and securely over time which reduces micro-risk to almost zero for them. Ehhhh! Hyperbole much?? All forces of nature do not follow a supply and demand curve. Also Governments everywhere do get rid of the laws of supply and demand in areas such as education health etc.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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tony stark wrote:MugundaMan wrote: This guy is talking much yet saying a big round zero. Is he related to Lukorito Jones? The guy does not even have a clue what he is talking about especially with regards to basic economics: supply and demand. He readily admits that the housing deficit is real, then argues in a very amateurish way (without providing concrete and verifiable figures) how that deficit is close to irrelevant . Then (like a very well known Wazoo personality) he paints growth as a "decline" because the rate of growth slowed a bit. That's like saying your shares in Centum "declined in value" because instead of rising from 28 to 35 like they did last year, they rose from 35 to 36! Total balderdash! Growth is growth!I will tell him like I have told every other naysayer on Wazoo and beyond: WAKE US UP WHEN YOU REPEAL THE LAWS OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND NOT JUST IN KENYA BUT IN THE WHOLE WORLD. The commies tried and failed miserably. No force on earth can tame the supply vs demand dynamic. None! The sprawling Kenyan middle class is growing in both wealth, experience and expertise and is the prime source of domestic demand - the lifeblood of any economy worth its salt. This middle class is an almost virtually unlimited source of demand over its lifetime, meaning, if a middle class Kenyan is earning a decent income from his investments and/or payslip and has a house, it is only a matter of time before his savings have accumulated again to the point he can buy yet another house and/or invest in real estate allied businesses in a beautiful cycle that will only end at the grave. Remember Kenya has a paltry number of mortgages (which is a wonderful thing) meaning the sprawling middle class either buys cash or near cash (buys plots, builds slowly over time and repeats) meaning unlike other casino economies, the wealth of Kenya's middle classes is built painstakingly and securely over time which reduces micro-risk to almost zero for them. Ehhhh! Hyperbole much?? All forces of nature do not follow a supply and demand curve. Also Governments everywhere do get rid of the laws of supply and demand in areas such as education health etc. Actually Mugunda has a point here. I read the article and thought the author went a tad overboard with his doom mongering. But If you read many of his past articles they have been couched in the same 'sky is falling' hyperbole. Why? I don't know. The recent contraction in the commercial and high end real estate, caused by overbuilding and unrealistic pricing of land and houses, is not evidence of burble burst. The real demand, Mugunda is right, is in the middle and low end, and that will not even be slaked by Uhurus 500K houses. One more thing, collapses like the one of the US in 2008, are caused quite often by concentrated risk exposure, in that case the banks were exposed through subprime lending and opaque repackaging of loans. Kenyas real estate risk is dispersed and borne largely by Kenyan savers directly. Otherwise, with 20,000 mortgages, no banker loses sleep over a real estate sector collapse. Pervasive consumption lending is another story of course, but the interest rate Cap has largely put an end to that foolishness. "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 9/4/2018 Posts: 64 Location: Nairobi
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Wukan. Is it Edermann that has been contracted by GOK under the affordable housing agenda now by SONKO to build a HIGE number of units in NGARA?Old Ngara?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/13/2015 Posts: 1,590
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Kate_Mbarire wrote:Wukan. Is it Edermann that has been contracted by GOK under the affordable housing agenda now by SONKO to build a HIGE number of units in NGARA?Old Ngara? No Edermann is doing its development on its own private property. The affordable housing under sonko was Public private partnership commenced under kidero Quote:Under the plan, Kiewa Group Limited will spend Sh7 billion to redevelop the Old Ngara Estate, which will have 840 apartment units. Jabavu Village Limited will build 1,470 apartments at Jevanjee Estate, opposite Kariokor Market at a sum of Sh9.1 billion while Sovereign Group Limited will develop 1,050 units at Pangani Estate for Sh7 billion. KCB will put in Sh9 billion to build 1,050 units at the New Ngara Estate; Stanlib Kenya Limited will spend Sh3.7 billion to put up 1,050 apartment units at Uhuru Estate and Directline Assurance Limited will redevelop Suna Road Estate at a cost of Sh3.5 billion, which will comprise 1,050 units. https://www.businessdail...3898-mru9cfz/index.html
This more of hadithi hadithi projects unlikely to take off any time soon. By the time the tenants fight it out in court it will be 5 years even before ground-breaking
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/20/2011 Posts: 1,820 Location: Nakuru
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wukan wrote:Kate_Mbarire wrote:Wukan. Is it Edermann that has been contracted by GOK under the affordable housing agenda now by SONKO to build a HIGE number of units in NGARA?Old Ngara? No Edermann is doing its development on its own private property. The affordable housing under sonko was Public private partnership commenced under kidero Quote:Under the plan, Kiewa Group Limited will spend Sh7 billion to redevelop the Old Ngara Estate, which will have 840 apartment units. Jabavu Village Limited will build 1,470 apartments at Jevanjee Estate, opposite Kariokor Market at a sum of Sh9.1 billion while Sovereign Group Limited will develop 1,050 units at Pangani Estate for Sh7 billion. KCB will put in Sh9 billion to build 1,050 units at the New Ngara Estate; Stanlib Kenya Limited will spend Sh3.7 billion to put up 1,050 apartment units at Uhuru Estate and Directline Assurance Limited will redevelop Suna Road Estate at a cost of Sh3.5 billion, which will comprise 1,050 units. https://www.businessdail...3898-mru9cfz/index.html
This more of hadithi hadithi projects unlikely to take off any time soon. By the time the tenants fight it out in court it will be 5 years even before ground-breaking I wager my 25 by 50 plot in githurai that this affordable housing thing will never take off. Hapa tunanang'anywa mushahara by force. Hujuma! Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/20/2011 Posts: 1,820 Location: Nakuru
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wukan wrote:Kate_Mbarire wrote:Wukan. Is it Edermann that has been contracted by GOK under the affordable housing agenda now by SONKO to build a HIGE number of units in NGARA?Old Ngara? No Edermann is doing its development on its own private property. The affordable housing under sonko was Public private partnership commenced under kidero Quote:Under the plan, Kiewa Group Limited will spend Sh7 billion to redevelop the Old Ngara Estate, which will have 840 apartment units. Jabavu Village Limited will build 1,470 apartments at Jevanjee Estate, opposite Kariokor Market at a sum of Sh9.1 billion while Sovereign Group Limited will develop 1,050 units at Pangani Estate for Sh7 billion. KCB will put in Sh9 billion to build 1,050 units at the New Ngara Estate; Stanlib Kenya Limited will spend Sh3.7 billion to put up 1,050 apartment units at Uhuru Estate and Directline Assurance Limited will redevelop Suna Road Estate at a cost of Sh3.5 billion, which will comprise 1,050 units. https://www.businessdail...3898-mru9cfz/index.html
This more of hadithi hadithi projects unlikely to take off any time soon. By the time the tenants fight it out in court it will be 5 years even before ground-breaking When South Africans lament about state capture i wonder what they are talking about Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 9/4/2018 Posts: 64 Location: Nairobi
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wukan wrote:Kate_Mbarire wrote:Wukan. Is it Edermann that has been contracted by GOK under the affordable housing agenda now by SONKO to build a HIGE number of units in NGARA?Old Ngara? No Edermann is doing its development on its own private property. The affordable housing under sonko was Public private partnership commenced under kidero Quote:Under the plan, Kiewa Group Limited will spend Sh7 billion to redevelop the Old Ngara Estate, which will have 840 apartment units. Jabavu Village Limited will build 1,470 apartments at Jevanjee Estate, opposite Kariokor Market at a sum of Sh9.1 billion while Sovereign Group Limited will develop 1,050 units at Pangani Estate for Sh7 billion. KCB will put in Sh9 billion to build 1,050 units at the New Ngara Estate; Stanlib Kenya Limited will spend Sh3.7 billion to put up 1,050 apartment units at Uhuru Estate and Directline Assurance Limited will redevelop Suna Road Estate at a cost of Sh3.5 billion, which will comprise 1,050 units. https://www.businessdail...3898-mru9cfz/index.html
This more of hadithi hadithi projects unlikely to take off any time soon. By the time the tenants fight it out in court it will be 5 years even before ground-breaking Thank you Wukan AS ALWAYS.But I think this affordable housing will happen.thisnis Uhuru and his flagship project therefore he MUST see it's done because it's his legacy in his final term....
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,908
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Kate_Mbarire wrote:wukan wrote:Kate_Mbarire wrote:Wukan. Is it Edermann that has been contracted by GOK under the affordable housing agenda now by SONKO to build a HIGE number of units in NGARA?Old Ngara? No Edermann is doing its development on its own private property. The affordable housing under sonko was Public private partnership commenced under kidero Quote:Under the plan, Kiewa Group Limited will spend Sh7 billion to redevelop the Old Ngara Estate, which will have 840 apartment units. Jabavu Village Limited will build 1,470 apartments at Jevanjee Estate, opposite Kariokor Market at a sum of Sh9.1 billion while Sovereign Group Limited will develop 1,050 units at Pangani Estate for Sh7 billion. KCB will put in Sh9 billion to build 1,050 units at the New Ngara Estate; Stanlib Kenya Limited will spend Sh3.7 billion to put up 1,050 apartment units at Uhuru Estate and Directline Assurance Limited will redevelop Suna Road Estate at a cost of Sh3.5 billion, which will comprise 1,050 units. https://www.businessdail...3898-mru9cfz/index.html
This more of hadithi hadithi projects unlikely to take off any time soon. By the time the tenants fight it out in court it will be 5 years even before ground-breaking Thank you Wukan AS ALWAYS.But I think this affordable housing will happen.thisnis Uhuru and his flagship project therefore he MUST see it's done because it's his legacy in his final term.... Legacy legacy legacy, 3.5 years remaining. Remember this year's budget figures don't add up & next year & subsequent ones will be worse. Nothing will be done unless they go PPP which will result in mass affordability issues. In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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Kate_Mbarire wrote:wukan wrote:Kate_Mbarire wrote:Wukan. Is it Edermann that has been contracted by GOK under the affordable housing agenda now by SONKO to build a HIGE number of units in NGARA?Old Ngara? No Edermann is doing its development on its own private property. The affordable housing under sonko was Public private partnership commenced under kidero Quote:Under the plan, Kiewa Group Limited will spend Sh7 billion to redevelop the Old Ngara Estate, which will have 840 apartment units. Jabavu Village Limited will build 1,470 apartments at Jevanjee Estate, opposite Kariokor Market at a sum of Sh9.1 billion while Sovereign Group Limited will develop 1,050 units at Pangani Estate for Sh7 billion. KCB will put in Sh9 billion to build 1,050 units at the New Ngara Estate; Stanlib Kenya Limited will spend Sh3.7 billion to put up 1,050 apartment units at Uhuru Estate and Directline Assurance Limited will redevelop Suna Road Estate at a cost of Sh3.5 billion, which will comprise 1,050 units. https://www.businessdail...3898-mru9cfz/index.html
This more of hadithi hadithi projects unlikely to take off any time soon. By the time the tenants fight it out in court it will be 5 years even before ground-breaking Thank you Wukan AS ALWAYS.But I think this affordable housing will happen.thisnis Uhuru and his flagship project therefore he MUST see it's done because it's his legacy in his final term.... The unraveling of the R.E. "expertise" of your hero? Kenyans love to link things to personalities Did they forget that we have something called Vision 2030 independent of regime in power? And who said Uhuru will not be here after 2022? It always amuses me when people say something has "failed" before it has even started. They said the same thing about Seacom/TEAMSS -ooo it has failed and will be too expensive; now they are surfing nywee on it. They said the same thing about Thika Superhighway - oo it has failed and will be too expensive. Now they are driving sweetly over it and it has created a multitrillion economic corridor that has made property prices shoot to the skies They said the same thing about SGR - ooooo it has failed and it is too expensive. They even delayed it by going to court. Wapi? Cargo and passenger numbers are booming to the skies as we speak and improving monthly Now this. Let them keep crying tu as our economy powers on beautifully at 6.3% this quarter and Big 4 housing will shock them once it breaks ground in the very near future.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/13/2015 Posts: 1,590
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Kate_Mbarire wrote:
Thank you Wukan AS ALWAYS.But I think this affordable housing will happen.thisnis Uhuru and his flagship project therefore he MUST see it's done because it's his legacy in his final term....
Maybe around 2025-2030. Look at how the civil servants have been fighting re-development. They got an injunction in 2015 the case was determined in 2018. They are now moving to the court of appeal maybe another 3 years there. Moving guys on welfare status is really problematic. Those guys in ngara paying 8-10k for 3 bd flats ain't moving any time soon. The only affordable housing you will see under Uhuru is maybe Park road which the only site ready for ground-breaking. GoK wants the first 400 units done within 6 months of handing over. This project has been re-tendered over and over and fresh tender was done in Oct 2018 so you should be lucky if the chinese contractors don't fight the procurement in court. Quote:The Petitioners also aver that on 2nd September 2014, they received notices to vacate dated 29th August 2014 entitled "Proposed Re-development of Starehe Government Estate, Nairobi" and "Proposed Redevelopment of Shauri Moyo Government Estate, Nairobi, to the effect that the said estates had been earmarked for redevelopment by the first Respondent in partnership with the private sector. They aver that they were required to vacate the said premises by 30th November 2014 to give way for the said re-development. http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/cases/view/153029/
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/13/2015 Posts: 1,590
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Here is another fight between Edermann and Lordship Africa over the Ngong road sites. http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/cases/view/149362
Quote:I invoke Article 165(6) and (7) of the Constitution and call into this court the entire procurement process which were irregularly conducted by the procuring entity and issue Certiorari removing into the High Court and I hereby quash the proceedings leading to the decision of the Nairobi City County dated 2nd August 2017 to award Tender No. NCC/UR&H/T/514/2016-2017 for Request for Proposal (RFP) for the Urban Renewal and Redevelopment of Phase 2 – Ngong’ Road Estate through Joint Venture Partnership to Ederman Property Limited.
3. I hereby direct and order the Nairobi City County the procuring entity herein to commence a fresh procurement process with respect to Tender No. NCC/UR&H/T/514/2016-2017 for Request for Proposal (RFP) for the Urban Renewal and Redevelopment of Phase 2 – Ngong’ Road Estate through Joint Venture Partnership, which procurement process shall accord with the established law and procedures.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/13/2015 Posts: 1,590
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Quote:A deal where current occupants of Nairobi estates earmarked for demolition, will get free apartments could finally unlock the city mass housing standoff. The plan, if it sees the light of day, is likely to chop down the number of cases lodged by tenants of government and council houses who are crying foul citing non-involvement. Urban Renewal Project for five pioneer Nairobi estates is poised for ground breaking this month after Nairobi County and the national government agreed on modalities for relocation of tenants to facilitate handing over of project sites to contracted developers. https://mobile.nation.co...49346-nei9bi/index.html
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 9/4/2018 Posts: 64 Location: Nairobi
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wukan wrote:Quote:A deal where current occupants of Nairobi estates earmarked for demolition, will get free apartments could finally unlock the city mass housing standoff. The plan, if it sees the light of day, is likely to chop down the number of cases lodged by tenants of government and council houses who are crying foul citing non-involvement. Urban Renewal Project for five pioneer Nairobi estates is poised for ground breaking this month after Nairobi County and the national government agreed on modalities for relocation of tenants to facilitate handing over of project sites to contracted developers. https://mobile.nation.co...49346-nei9bi/index.html
Yeah...Wukan thought so...these guys will try JUU CHINI to actualise this before their term ends .Politicians of these days....All about themselves
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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Ka-BOOM. Here comes the big four https://www.capitalfm.co...zWjEqDasAZNYYRwIGnwy7Wg
Let the naysayers croak their feeble misgivings to the high heavens! Unstoppable Kenya is moving forward  
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/13/2015 Posts: 1,590
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Hadithi hadithi hadithi njoo  Quote:he groundbreaking ceremony for 500,000 affordable houses by the government will be held on December 11 at Parklands, Nairobi. Housing Principal Secretary Charles Mwaura told a parliamentary committee the houses, which will be built in the next four years, will cost Sh1.3 trillion and are aimed at ensuring middle-income households have access to decent and affordable dwellings. Mr Mwaura told the National Assembly Transport, Public Works and Housing Committee that there will be three categories of houses that will be available to Kenyans depending on the level of income: social, low-cost and mortgage gap. https://www.nation.co.ke...74962-e5ksw2/index.html
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