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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,212 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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AlphDoti wrote: 1. I tell you about my religious text: the true teachings of all prophets, including Jesus peace be upon him: "(Oh Allah) You alone we worship, you alone we ask for help." Quran 1:4. Say (O Muslims), "We believe in God and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Ismail (Ishmael), Ishaque (Isaac), Yaqub (Jacob), and to Al-Asbat [the twelve sons of Yaqub (Jacob)], and that which has been given to Mûsa (Moses) and 'Iesa (Jesus), and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted." (Quran 2:136)
2. Why we don't eat pork? (i). Deuteronomy 14:3-8 - "...The pig is unclean; ...it does not chew the cud, you are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses." (ii). Matthew 5:17-18 that Jesus said: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets."
3. What am I saying: To bear witness that there's non to be worshipped except the creator, Almighty God. Moses (Peace be upon him) said "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.", Consistent with the first of Ten Commandments given to Moses. Jesus (peace be upon him) said the greatest of the commandment is, "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one", consistent with the first of Ten Commandments.
So in your mind, based on that out of context (again!) set of verses you have just showed us, New Testament Christians are commanded by Jesus to perform Levitical Sacrifices, Observe Jewish Holidays and rituals, do ritual washing and cleansing and slaughter goats to take away their sins? A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, my friend. I suggest you read the Bible cover to cover instead of regurgitating the few smatterings of verses you have been fed out of context by your spiritual leaders because if you do not understand the basics of the Christian faith it is impossible to have a coherent debate on the issues with you - on matters Biblical especially.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,212 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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Apricot wrote:MugundaMan wrote:[quote=Apricot] Quote:The gospels contradict each other whether and when not doing so, they are growing the legend. No proof of the disciples or of Moses or of other characters in the bible can be adduced like that of Alexander the Greek or Pontius Pilate can be. This is a complete fallacy. WHERE and HOW do the Gospels contradict each other. Please give us a few CONCRETE EXAMPLES of this so that we can take you seriously on this point. If you care to listen to Professor Bart Ehrman, he lists dozens of contradictions in the bible. And Bart does not even consider himself a non-theist. I will find time to respond to your other assertions. Bible contradictions ha ha ha ha ha! You are the one being played by this fellow, because you are taking what he is saying as fact without actually reading the Bible for yourself to confirm whether what he is saying is true or not. And these are some tips that will help you weed through the deception: 1. Remember that there are numerous versions of the Bible; NIV, KJV, NASB, The so called Message and so many more. KJV is the closest it gets to the original scrolls. The message is a paraphrase of the Bible (I do not consider it at all to be an accurate representation of God's Word.) So when the prof compares one verse with another by comparing the KJV version of the former with the Message version of the latter, of course he knows you who swallow what he says as gospel will be easily convinced. 2. Think of the Gospels as a narrative in 4D. As I explained in an earlier post. Two people can be at the same event, and notice various aspects that slightly differ in the same storyline, but that does not invalidate the overall unity of the story. For example, you and I may be looking at a beautiful girl. You may describe her as having nice hair and cheekbones and a wry smile. I may say she has very nice assets and a pretty dress. Does this mean our accounts contradict? Of course not. 3. That all four Gospels written by four different authors of different backgrounds agree in stunning detail has confounded even some diehard atheists. The only safe refuge they have in explaining why this is so is that either there was a conspiracy after the fact or they all were a "forgery" yet all extra-Biblical historical evidence points otherwise.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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MugundaMan wrote:AlphDoti wrote: 1. I tell you about my religious text: the true teachings of all prophets, including Jesus peace be upon him: "(Oh Allah) You alone we worship, you alone we ask for help." Quran 1:4. Say (O Muslims), "We believe in God and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Ismail (Ishmael), Ishaque (Isaac), Yaqub (Jacob), and to Al-Asbat [the twelve sons of Yaqub (Jacob)], and that which has been given to Mûsa (Moses) and 'Iesa (Jesus), and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted." (Quran 2:136)
2. Why we don't eat pork? (i). Deuteronomy 14:3-8 - "...The pig is unclean; ...it does not chew the cud, you are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses." (ii). Matthew 5:17-18 that Jesus said: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets."
3. What am I saying: To bear witness that there's non to be worshipped except the creator, Almighty God. Moses (Peace be upon him) said "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.", Consistent with the first of Ten Commandments given to Moses. Jesus (peace be upon him) said the greatest of the commandment is, "Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one", consistent with the first of Ten Commandments.
So in your mind, based on that out of context (again!) set of verses you have just showed us, New Testament Christians are commanded by Jesus to perform Levitical Sacrifices, Observe Jewish Holidays and rituals, do ritual washing and cleansing and slaughter goats to take away their sins? A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, my friend. I suggest you read the Bible cover to cover instead of regurgitating the few smatterings of verses you have been fed out of context by your spiritual leaders because if you do not understand the basics of the Christian faith it is impossible to have a coherent debate on the issues with you - matters Biblical especially. Jesus pbuh never ate swine as taught in Leviticus 11:7, (Vyakula Najisi) - BWANA akawaambia Mose na Aroni, "Waambie Waisraeli: lakini hao kamwe msiwale. Naye nguruwe ingawa anazo kwato zilizogawanyika sehemu mbili, lakini hacheui, ni najisi kwenu. Kamwe msile nyama yao wala kugusa mizoga yao, wao ni najisi kwenu. Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-18 that: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets..."
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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MugundaMan wrote:Apricot wrote:MugundaMan wrote:[quote=Apricot] Quote:The gospels contradict each other whether and when not doing so, they are growing the legend. No proof of the disciples or of Moses or of other characters in the bible can be adduced like that of Alexander the Greek or Pontius Pilate can be. This is a complete fallacy. WHERE and HOW do the Gospels contradict each other. Please give us a few CONCRETE EXAMPLES of this so that we can take you seriously on this point. If you care to listen to Professor Bart Ehrman, he lists dozens of contradictions in the bible. And Bart does not even consider himself a non-theist. I will find time to respond to your other assertions. Bible contradictions ha ha ha ha ha! You are the one being played by this fellow, because you are taking what he is saying as fact without actually reading the Bible for yourself to confirm whether what he is saying is true or not. And these are some tips that will help you weed through the deception: 1. Remember that there are numerous versions of the Bible; NIV, KJV, NASB, The so called Message and so many more. KJV is the closest it gets to the original scrolls. The message is a paraphrase of the Bible (I do not consider it at all to be an accurate representation of God's Word.) So when the prof compares one verse with another by comparing the KJV version of the former with the Message version of the latter, of course he knows you who swallow what he says as gospel will be easily convinced. 2. Think of the Gospels as a narrative in 4D. As I explained in an earlier post. Two people can be at the same event, and notice various aspects that slightly differ in the same storyline, but that does not invalidate the overall unity of the story. For example, you and I may be looking at a beautiful girl. You may describe her as having nice hair and cheekbones and a wry smile. I may say she has very nice assets and a pretty dress. Does this mean our accounts contradict? Of course not. 3. That all four Gospels written by four different authors of different backgrounds agree in stunning detail has confounded even some diehard atheists. The only safe refuge they have in explaining why this is so is that either there was a conspiracy after the fact or they all were a "forgery" yet all extra-Biblical historical evidence points otherwise. Some of the CONTRADICTIONS in the Bible (a) The "Lord" tempted David . . . 2 SAMUEL 24:1 or "Satan" provoked David . . . 1 CHRONICLES 21:1 (b) 700 or 7000? "Horsemen" or "Footmen" . . .? 2 SAMUEL 10:18 vs 1 CHRONICLES 19:18 (c) Solomon had 2000 baths or 3000 baths? 1 KINGS 7:26 vs 2 CHRONICLES 4:5 (d) Solomon had 4000 stalls of horses or 40000? 2 CHRONICLES 9:25 vs 1 KINGS 4:26 (e) Did Saul enquire of the Lord or didn't he? 1 SAMUEL 28:6 vs 1 CHRONICLES 10:13-14 (f) Heaven, no man hath ascended JOHN 3:13 Contradicted by: 2 KINGS 2:11 Elijah ascended, and GENESIS 5:24 Enoch ascended. (g) Jesus lost "None" of his disciples JOHN 18:9 Contradicted by: He lost only "One" JOHN 17:12 (h) "ALL" are sinners 2 CHRONICLES 6:36 Contradicted by: "Whosoever is born of God DOTH NOT commit sin . . ." 1 JOHN 3:9
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,212 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:Religion is very tricky. Suppose an alien came to earth and without prejudice was sat through christian beliefs, then Islam beliefs, then Hindu, Jewry etc. whom would he believe to the exclusion of all others. We are christian/Muslim/Hindu because we were raised in the geographic spheres of this religions. So as we defend our religions with zeal, spare a thought for your (hypothetical self) if Hinduism had colonized you and not Islam or Mzungu I would recommend all read about other religions that you do not subscribe to and you will be shocked at the similarities with your own. Chances are upto 85%,of the religious dogma is pretty much similar (good vs evil)regardless of religion. Obi but this is the same thing the prophets of Baal said to Elijah. They alluded that their god was the real deal and all other gods were nonsense. Elijah told them he served the living God and challenged them to a duel. Slaughter an animal place it on an altar and call upon your god to burn up the carcass with a fire from heaven. The prophets of Baal accepted the duel and jumped around like madmen and even slashed themselves until they bled sore, calling upon Baal to heed their prayers. Wapi? Nothing happened. Elijah mocked them telling them their god must be asleep or on vacation! He then ordered the carcass to be drenched wet with loads of water, prayed to God and fire dropped from heaven and not only consumed the carcass and alter but the pools of water dry! That in essence is what God is telling you. Test your own gods to see if they are the real deal or not. When he sent his Son down to do signs and wonders such as raising people from the dead, walking on water and so on, by these signs he was showing He was the true God. The Judaists and the Ishmaelites will have no problems agreeing that God performed signs and wonders through Moses in getting the Israelites out of Pharaoh's clutch. Amazingly, despite this, they find it difficult to believe God's Son did everything he did and even rose from the dead to save all who believe. When Paul preached to the whole of the city of Athens at Mars Hill about the sermon about the unknown god, he said the exact same thing in Acts 17:29-31: “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.” So God - the creator of all we see- has made it crystal clear who He is and what He has done and what He demands. It is up to you and me to choose to either believe or reject this as his proof. If one rejects it and chooses to worship stones, idols, a man in the Arabian desert whose nation (if they continue to disbelieve) was cast out of God's kindgom in Genesis 21: 10-12, or an asian man under a banyan tree who promises reincarnation, they only have themselves to blame IMHO. Shalom
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,212 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,212 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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AlphDoti wrote: Jesus pbuh never ate swine as taught in Leviticus 11:7, (Vyakula Najisi) - BWANA akawaambia Mose na Aroni, "Waambie Waisraeli: lakini hao kamwe msiwale. Naye nguruwe ingawa anazo kwato zilizogawanyika sehemu mbili, lakini hacheui, ni najisi kwenu. Kamwe msile nyama yao wala kugusa mizoga yao, wao ni najisi kwenu.
Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-18 that: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets..."
Alpha you are now going around in circles, have you read any of the Pauline letters explaining the matter or foods, rituals and the like? I think not. This is why your head is buried in the OT and unable to see beyond your nose on this matter. Shalom.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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AlphDoti wrote:Lolest! wrote:Worshipper_Muhammad You keep recycling scams since 2014! You were answered here already... guru267 wrote:Lolest! wrote:You can imagine having to die for refusing to convert to the worship of Muhammad. So who worships Muhammad?? Who even prays to Muhammad?? Why in God's name would anyone pray to a man who ate, slept, and took a dump just like themselves?? Muslims only worship the creator of the heavens and earth.. the creator of all that is seen and unseen! Facts are stubborn! You guys worship that Satan messenger but you'd rather not admit it!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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MugundaMan wrote:AlphDoti wrote: Jesus pbuh never ate swine as taught in Leviticus 11:7, (Vyakula Najisi) - BWANA akawaambia Mose na Aroni, "Waambie Waisraeli: lakini hao kamwe msiwale. Naye nguruwe ingawa anazo kwato zilizogawanyika sehemu mbili, lakini hacheui, ni najisi kwenu. Kamwe msile nyama yao wala kugusa mizoga yao, wao ni najisi kwenu.
Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-18 that: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets..."
Alpha you are now going around in circles, have you read any of the Pauline letters explaining the matter or foods, rituals and the like? I think not. This is why your head is buried in the OT and unable to see beyond your nose on this matter. Shalom. You as Christian better start believing in the Torah otherwise you should be straight and detest the OT and even rebuke it!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Lolest! wrote:AlphDoti wrote:Lolest! wrote:Worshipper_Muhammad You keep recycling scams since 2014! You were answered here already... guru267 wrote:Lolest! wrote:You can imagine having to die for refusing to convert to the worship of Muhammad. So who worships Muhammad?? Who even prays to Muhammad?? Why in God's name would anyone pray to a man who ate, slept, and took a dump just like themselves?? Muslims only worship the creator of the heavens and earth.. the creator of all that is seen and unseen! Facts are stubborn! You guys worship that Satan messenger but you'd rather not admit it! We have told you again and again Muhammad pbuh was flesh and bones like you and me. He is not worthy of worship! As you remain stubborn, others are learning and they are not stupid.
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