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Caroline Mutoko's take on the property market
Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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Ati selling that 20m apartment to who?  To investors, first time buyers, Kenyans abroad, the middle classes of East and Central Africa, wazungu investors from all over the world, Chinese & other Asian investors, retirees, companies, small businesses, chamas, investment clubs, Sacco members and so much more. Millenials are broke and have no money for the most part that is why they are stuck renting and pretending they do not want to own anything. The churn rate for this segment is very high. This is why I would never rent to anyone below age 35 unless they prove beyond a shadow of a doubt to be stable in thought, savings, employment, outlook and mindset.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/13/2015 Posts: 1,590
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/25/2010 Posts: 939 Location: Nai
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MugundaMan wrote:Ati selling that 20m apartment to who? To investors, first time buyers, Kenyans abroad, the middle classes of East and Central Africa, wazungu investors from all over the world, Chinese & other Asian investors, retirees, companies, small businesses, chamas, investment clubs, Sacco members and so much more. Millenials are broke and have no money for the most part that is why they are stuck renting and pretending they do not want to own anything. The churn rate for this segment is very high. This is why I would never rent to anyone below age 35 unless they prove beyond a shadow of a doubt to be stable in thought, savings, employment, outlook and mindset. those millenials are the only market you will have sooner than later after your 35's retire in the next 15 years.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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jamplu wrote:
those millenials are the only market you will have sooner than later after your 35's retire in the next 15 years.
The good thing about these silly media propagated sociological labels like "Millenials" and "Generation X" and "baby boomers" is that whatever they are purported to be and do changes with times and seasons and never lasts. I remember when my generation (Generation X) was being labeled with all these silly values. We were called "The MTV generation." Ati we were the latchkey kids, disaffected, uninterested in the world around them, cynical and slackers. This was total rubbish! Nobody I know or went to school with was ever this way, yet they labeled us these things. Now almost everybody I know from my generation is getting a lot done, most are well educated, have good jobs or run businesses, some are well known politicians, others are CEOs, the list is endless. Does that sound like a cynical lot of slackers? Hata this millenial labeling is garbage. These so called fads will be long forgotten once most of them turn 35 and are responsible citizens getting a lot done in life. In fact this labeling is very deliberate. The corporates need to create zombie like thinking to which they can sell all sorts of things to. When a 25 year old is told a millenial does not buy he rents and it is drummed in his head every day through the media, the simple ones among them will actually believe it.
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 344
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MugundaMan wrote:jamplu wrote:
those millenials are the only market you will have sooner than later after your 35's retire in the next 15 years.
The good thing about these silly media propagated sociological labels like "Millenials" and "Generation X" and "baby boomers" is that whatever they are purported to be and do changes with times and seasons and never lasts. I remember when my generation (Generation X) was being labeled with all these silly values. We were called "The MTV generation." Ati we were the latchkey kids, disaffected, uninterested in the world around them, cynical and slackers. This was total rubbish! Nobody I know or went to school with was ever this way, yet they labeled us these things. Now almost everybody I know from my generation is getting a lot done, most are well educated, have good jobs or run businesses, some are well known politicians, others are CEOs, the list is endless. Does that sound like a cynical lot of slackers? Hata this millenial labeling is garbage. These so called fads will be long forgotten once most of them turn 35 and are responsible citizens getting a lot done in life. In fact this labeling is very deliberate. The corporates need to create zombie like thinking to which they can sell all sorts of things to. When a 25 year old is told a millenial does not buy he rents and it is drummed in his head every day through the media, the simple ones among them will actually believe it. I think these terms are U.S. based (or at least used to be).
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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Sansa wrote:
I think these terms are U.S. based (or at least used to be).
Yes of course, and unfortunately they are swallowed all over the world thanks to the power and reach of Hellyweird,
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/25/2010 Posts: 939 Location: Nai
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MugundaMan wrote:jamplu wrote:
those millenials are the only market you will have sooner than later after your 35's retire in the next 15 years.
The good thing about these silly media propagated sociological labels like "Millenials" and "Generation X" and "baby boomers" is that whatever they are purported to be and do changes with times and seasons and never lasts. I remember when my generation (Generation X) was being labeled with all these silly values. We were called "The MTV generation." Ati we were the latchkey kids, disaffected, uninterested in the world around them, cynical and slackers. This was total rubbish! Nobody I know or went to school with was ever this way, yet they labeled us these things. Now almost everybody I know from my generation is getting a lot done, most are well educated, have good jobs or run businesses, some are well known politicians, others are CEOs, the list is endless. Does that sound like a cynical lot of slackers? Hata this millenial labeling is garbage. These so called fads will be long forgotten once most of them turn 35 and are responsible citizens getting a lot done in life. In fact this labeling is very deliberate. The corporates need to create zombie like thinking to which they can sell all sorts of things to. When a 25 year old is told a millenial does not buy he rents and it is drummed in his head every day through the media, the simple ones among them will actually believe it. Yes they do become responsible and we have to accept there will always be differences between each demographic cohort. But arent we the ones pushing them to not own homes. Very few at 26 when starting a family can afford 20m mortgage. The plots are as well overpriced yes majority will argue its demand and supply or willing seller willing buyer bs but is ana 1/8 say in syokimau or kitengela really worth the above 3.5m pricepricetag tag taking into account there are no road, water and sewer systems. Compare that to prices in other neighborhoods like towns/cities in south Africa!!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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jamplu wrote:
Yes they do become responsible and we have to accept there will always be differences between each demographic cohort. But arent we the ones pushing them to not own homes. Very few at 26 when starting a family can afford 20m mortgage. The plots are as well overpriced yes majority will argue its demand and supply or willing seller willing buyer bs but is ana 1/8 say in syokimau or kitengela really worth the above 3.5m pricepricetag tag taking into account there are no road, water and sewer systems. Compare that to prices in other neighborhoods like towns/cities in south Africa!!!
I think the argument that a plot or house is overpriced in Kenya today therefore a millenial cannot own anything is a fallacy. Kenya is not Lavington and Kilimani type of properties alone, one has to start somewhere. In Kenya today a plot can be obtained for a song but the compromise one has to make is to move further away from the city. I think the bigger issue is that many do not want to cut their cloak according to the cloth. I remember watching a show on NTV I believe about 8 years ago in which a wealthy property owner with properties in the Nairobi core said something very insightful (at least to me). He said something to the effect that everybody wants Runda, Muthaiga and Lavington, but if you cannot afford these, start at South C. If you cannot afford South C, start at Syokimau. If you cannot afford Syokimau start at Lukenya and so on. Then work your way in over many years and eventually you will afford Lavington. These days with a regular job, to save 100k for a millenial is not a big deal. I see them with apple iphones that cost that much. 100k can buy a plot in the far reaches of the outskirts of Nairobi. They can then build slowly (even if it takes ten years), before reaping the benefits of capital gains in the years to come, before repeating the process. There is really no excuse as far as I am concerned! The key is starting where one can afford, being patient, delaying gratification and being persistent and success is inevitable.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/25/2012 Posts: 4,105 Location: 08c
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MugundaMan wrote:jamplu wrote:
Yes they do become responsible and we have to accept there will always be differences between each demographic cohort. But arent we the ones pushing them to not own homes. Very few at 26 when starting a family can afford 20m mortgage. The plots are as well overpriced yes majority will argue its demand and supply or willing seller willing buyer bs but is ana 1/8 say in syokimau or kitengela really worth the above 3.5m pricepricetag tag taking into account there are no road, water and sewer systems. Compare that to prices in other neighborhoods like towns/cities in south Africa!!!
I think the argument that a plot or house is overpriced in Kenya today therefore a millenial cannot own anything is a fallacy. Kenya is not Lavington and Kilimani type of properties alone, one has to start somewhere. In Kenya today a plot can be obtained for a song but the compromise one has to make is to move further away from the city. I think the bigger issue is that many do not want to cut their cloak according to the cloth. I remember watching a show on NTV I believe about 8 years ago in which a wealthy property owner with properties in the Nairobi core said something very insightful (at least to me). He said something to the effect that everybody wants Runda, Muthaiga and Lavington, but if you cannot afford these, start at South C. If you cannot afford South C, start at Syokimau. If you cannot afford Syokimau start at Lukenya and so on. Then work your way in over many years and eventually you will afford Lavington. These days with a regular job, to save 100k for a millenial is not a big deal. I see them with apple iphones that cost that much. 100k can buy a plot in the far reaches of the outskirts of Nairobi. They can then build slowly (even if it takes ten years), before reaping the benefits of capital gains in the years to come, before repeating the process. There is really no excuse as far as I am concerned! The key is starting where one can afford, being patient, delaying gratification and being persistent and success is inevitable. 100k..... Nairobi. WHERE? WHERE?  Pesa Nane plans to be shilingi when he grows up.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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Pesa Nane wrote:100k..... Nairobi. WHERE? WHERE? Isinya for starters:  https://www.property24.c...ale-in-isinya-106677839
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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MugundaMan wrote:jamplu wrote:
those millenials are the only market you will have sooner than later after your 35's retire in the next 15 years.
The good thing about these silly media propagated sociological labels like "Millenials" and "Generation X" and "baby boomers" is that whatever they are purported to be and do changes with times and seasons and never lasts. I remember when my generation (Generation X) was being labeled with all these silly values. We were called "The MTV generation." Ati we were the latchkey kids, disaffected, uninterested in the world around them, cynical and slackers. This was total rubbish! Nobody I know or went to school with was ever this way, yet they labeled us these things. Now almost everybody I know from my generation is getting a lot done, most are well educated, have good jobs or run businesses, some are well known politicians, others are CEOs, the list is endless. Does that sound like a cynical lot of slackers? Hata this millenial labeling is garbage. These so called fads will be long forgotten once most of them turn 35 and are responsible citizens getting a lot done in life. In fact this labeling is very deliberate. The corporates need to create zombie like thinking to which they can sell all sorts of things to. When a 25 year old is told a millenial does not buy he rents and it is drummed in his head every day through the media, the simple ones among them will actually believe it. What do you mean by media propagated labels? These are terms with specific meaning. A generation is generally time taken by Children to grow up and get children of their own, typically 30-35 years. At that age a person becomes a junior elder ready for responsibility and leadership. A child born today will come of age in 2050. Similarly there are age groups and age sets even in African communities long before advent of the fake media. Every generation is influenced by different dynamics. IMO the most unlucky generation is that born 1900-1910. They experienced 2 world wars and a depression. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/5/2011 Posts: 1,059
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Get another 3 guys buy the 100x50, build ground plus 2 floors with 4 units of 4 bedrooms, ground floor is shared with parking, tanks etc cost drops significantly each guy owns 25% of the house. To Each His Own
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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kayhara wrote:Get another 3 guys buy the 100x50, build ground plus 2 floors with 4 units of 4 bedrooms, ground floor is shared with parking, tanks etc cost drops significantly each guy owns 25% of the house. Sounds good. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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sparkly wrote:kayhara wrote:Get another 3 guys buy the 100x50, build ground plus 2 floors with 4 units of 4 bedrooms, ground floor is shared with parking, tanks etc cost drops significantly each guy owns 25% of the house. Sounds good. Neighbours (and kanjo) would never allow you to put up a flat in their midst.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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sparkly wrote:
What do you mean by media propagated labels?
These are terms with specific meaning. A generation is generally time taken by Children to grow up and get children of their own, typically 30-35 years. At that age a person becomes a junior elder ready for responsibility and leadership. A child born today will come of age in 2050.
Similarly there are age groups and age sets even in African communities long before advent of the fake media.
Every generation is influenced by different dynamics. IMO the most unlucky generation is that born 1900-1910. They experienced 2 world wars and a depression.
Sparkly, My point was, is every member of every single generation a zombie who acts, thinks and operates in a specific manner dictated by said generation? For example, even with age groups, did every single member of an age group act and think the same way? Heck did even half of a generation or age group all act or think the same way on every single matter? Or even a quarter? So when the media talks about generation X or Millenials they are telling me nothing. 30 or 40 or evn 50 million human beings of whatever age and generation cannot be all put into a reductionist box that says each of them likes ice cream, never rents, doesn't think of the future, never saves and is apolitical.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Servicing a 20m mortgage would require one to pay about 270k each month for 15yrs. How many kenyans can afford that?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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MugundaMan wrote:sparkly wrote:
What do you mean by media propagated labels?
These are terms with specific meaning. A generation is generally time taken by Children to grow up and get children of their own, typically 30-35 years. At that age a person becomes a junior elder ready for responsibility and leadership. A child born today will come of age in 2050.
Similarly there are age groups and age sets even in African communities long before advent of the fake media.
Every generation is influenced by different dynamics. IMO the most unlucky generation is that born 1900-1910. They experienced 2 world wars and a depression.
Sparkly, My point was, is every member of every single generation a zombie who acts, thinks and operates in a specific manner dictated by said generation? For example, even with age groups, did every single member of an age group act and think the same way? Heck did even half of a generation or age group all act or think the same way on every single matter? Or even a quarter? So when the media talks about generation X or Millenials they are telling me nothing. 30 or 40 or evn 50 million human beings of whatever age and generation cannot be all put into a reductionist box that says each of them likes ice cream, never rents, doesn't think of the future, never saves and is apolitical. I agree with you. Every human being has their own personality. Even animals of the same breed have their own personalities. But generations are a reality e.g. I don't suppose your grandfather is on Wazua or buying migundas in Kitengela. Don't assume also that your grandchildren will be buying migundas in Kitengela. They might be buying their migundas in China, Europe or on Mars. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/13/2015 Posts: 1,590
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hardwood wrote:Servicing a 20m mortgage would require one to pay about 270k each month for 15yrs. How many kenyans can afford that? This is where folks get it wrong on real estate. If you speak to the people who have made it they started by buying some distressed property somewhere fixed it up and re-sold. You don't have to pay the mortgage for entire 15 years. Now that the average buy is 10m your first property should 1/3 around 3m. Take your mortgage pay it up for a while then flip it. Use that to get 7.5m property pay a while and flip it. Next aim for the 10m if it is your ultimate property. Location is key don't start with Isinya thinking you will end up in Runda
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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sparkly wrote:MugundaMan wrote:sparkly wrote:
What do you mean by media propagated labels?
These are terms with specific meaning. A generation is generally time taken by Children to grow up and get children of their own, typically 30-35 years. At that age a person becomes a junior elder ready for responsibility and leadership. A child born today will come of age in 2050.
Similarly there are age groups and age sets even in African communities long before advent of the fake media.
Every generation is influenced by different dynamics. IMO the most unlucky generation is that born 1900-1910. They experienced 2 world wars and a depression.
Sparkly, My point was, is every member of every single generation a zombie who acts, thinks and operates in a specific manner dictated by said generation? For example, even with age groups, did every single member of an age group act and think the same way? Heck did even half of a generation or age group all act or think the same way on every single matter? Or even a quarter? So when the media talks about generation X or Millenials they are telling me nothing. 30 or 40 or evn 50 million human beings of whatever age and generation cannot be all put into a reductionist box that says each of them likes ice cream, never rents, doesn't think of the future, never saves and is apolitical. I agree with you. Every human being has their own personality. Even animals of the same breed have their own personalities. But generations are a reality e.g. I don't suppose your grandfather is on Wazua or buying migundas in Kitengela.
Don't assume also that your grandchildren will be buying migundas in Kitengela. They might be buying their migundas in China, Europe or on Mars. At least you agree that the commonality is that they will be buying :). Generations and age sets exist - that has never been in contention. But to classify a diverse generation of tens of millions of people as "Millenials" who all do not buy, all do not save, all do not want to live in big spaces and so on I think you will agree is laughable at best.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Interesting take on kenya's real estate. This will be music to @mugundaman's ears. Nice quote at around 10.25 that says "the trick in real estate is to buy land and not bricks (apartments) because bricks always devalue while land always appreciates"...."you make much more after 10yrs by buying empty land than buying an expensive flat". In other words it's better to put your money in the dustbowl than in an apartment in lavi.
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Caroline Mutoko's take on the property market
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