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When we had good leaders....
Rank: Member Joined: 2/15/2018 Posts: 428
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Quote:Just because Kibaki fell out with raila, kalonzo, ngilu and others after 2002 and they went ahead to form ODM to oppose kibaki it doesn't mean he sidelined and humiliated them. People differ politically all the time. It's what politics is all about. Politics is a competition for power and you can't tell your competitor what move to make.
Odinga snr, Kagia, Muliro etc defected from Jomo's Kanu to form KPU, just like Raila & co. defected from NARC to form ODM. What did you want Jomo or kibaki to do? To go and kneel before the Odingas so that they couldn't leave Kibaki should have built on the unity and ethnic cohesion that saw him elected in 2002. Instead he resorted back to his tribal tendencies and that was what split NARC. Kenyatta also should have built on the unity that saw him elected. Instead he also retreated to his tribal enclave. These are two missed opportunities at national unity. Kenyatta is the cause of all the tribalism and corruption that plagues Kenya today.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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radiomast wrote:hardwood wrote:Lolest! wrote:@hardwood, Jaramogi and Mboya were never friends but it's highly unlikely that he was to blame. Jomo's govt would have been happy to have him tried for it.
It had to be people thinking about succession politics. Kenyatta was already gray and sickly. Could the russians have meddled in kenyan politics? Note that Mboya and Kenyatta were pro-west while Jahramogi was pro-russia. And with the ageing Jomo, Mboya was the heir apparent to lead kanu and govt. It was during the cold war and the superpowers were fighting (via proxies/puppets) for world domination.  Hardwoods attempts at re-writing history are rather comical.But its part of a scheme by various journalists to tell blatant lies. The person who was convicted of shooting Mboya was one Nahashon Njenga Njoroge. When he was arrested, he said there were higher people involved in the plot. Yet the judge ruled out any discussion about who was really behind the plot to kill Mboya. Question: If Oginga was involved, don't you think gava would have performed a thorough investigation, question Mr. Njoroge and gotten to the bottom of who was really behind the plot to kill Mboya?. It would have been a perfect opportunity to finish Odinga.Instead gava engaged in a stage managaed trial, no witnesses were called, no journalists witnessed the trial which was held in secret. There was no discussion of any accomplices even though Njoroge said there were higher people involved. In the end Njoroge was executed in secret. His body was never found. Sounds like a cover-up by an incumbent government, not an opposition leader. Thank you @radiomast for putting these LAZY, SIMPLISTIC, CLICHED narratives from these paid journalism.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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radiomast wrote:Quote:Just because Kibaki fell out with raila, kalonzo, ngilu and others after 2002 and they went ahead to form ODM to oppose kibaki it doesn't mean he sidelined and humiliated them. People differ politically all the time. It's what politics is all about. Politics is a competition for power and you can't tell your competitor what move to make.
Odinga snr, Kagia, Muliro etc defected from Jomo's Kanu to form KPU, just like Raila & co. defected from NARC to form ODM. What did you want Jomo or kibaki to do? To go and kneel before the Odingas so that they couldn't leave Kibaki should have built on the unity and ethnic cohesion that saw him elected in 2002. Instead he resorted back to his tribal tendencies and that was what split NARC. Kenyatta also should have built on the unity that saw him elected. Instead he also retreated to his tribal enclave. These are two missed opportunities at national unity. Kenyatta is the cause of all the tribalism and corruption that plagues Kenya today. We all know the day Jaramogi stood firm over Kenyatta’s release. Quote:Unknown to many, it was Odinga who demanded the release of Jomo Kenyatta and other political prisoners from colonial detention on November 12, 1959. Kenyatta and five others were released in August 1961 from Kapenguria prison where they being were held
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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AlphDoti wrote:We all know the day Jaramogi stood firm over Kenyatta’s release. Quote:Unknown to many, it was Odinga who demanded the release of Jomo Kenyatta and other political prisoners from colonial detention on November 12, 1959. Kenyatta and five others were released in August 1961 from Kapenguria prison where they being were held Jaramogi wanted Jomo released but not because he liked him but because of his(Jaramogi's) hatred for Mboya. Mboya was very young and had a meteoric rise in politics which didn't sit well with JOO. In the 1950s African political leadership and jobs had been left to mostly Luos and to a lesser extent Luhyas. Kikuyus had been edged out due to the Mau Mau rebellion. Voting as a Kikuyu/Embu/Meru then required many clearance levels. Even when cleared, their votes weighed less than those of other communities. It is in this context that the intra Luo rivalry fomented. Mboya's rise was too fast. He was a guy who was self centred and wanted to see himself at the top. History is very exciting. The more you read of it, the more you realise some 'facts' are myth.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/15/2018 Posts: 428
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Lolest! wrote:
Jaramogi wanted Jomo released but not because he liked him but because of his(Jaramogi's) hatred for Mboya.
This does not make sense. If Jaramogi became the first president then he would have had every opportunity to finish Mboya politically. So if Jaramogi hated Mboya, he would have taken the British offer. Remember the British wanted to impose him as head of state as they had done all over Africa. Jaramogi would have then used this position to finish off the careers of Mboya and others. Oginga and Mboya were rivals but they did not hate each other. It is being overblown. Somebody here posted that Kidero and Raila hate each other. This is funny because it is Raila who imposed Kidero as the sole ODM nominee for Nairobi governor. The article below states that Mboya knew people were trying to kill him. Oginga warned him that people were trying to kill him. Mboya sought Oginga's help according to the article below. If those two hated each other then why was Mboya seeking Oginga's help to prevent the assassination? https://www.nation.co.ke...06346-c5qvyc/index.html
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Odinga and Mboya were not seeing eye to eye in the 50s to the 60s. Whether this changed when Mboya saw threats to his life is a different issue On my side, it's highly unlikely Odinga did it To accept to become President when the father of the independence movement was in restriction and the Brits were refusing to have him released would have meant betrayal and a possible end of career in the polls. The rallying call then was 'Uhuru na Kenyatta'. Nobody would have dared go against this. The 1961 elections saw KANU win but refuse to take government until Jomo was released
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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@mast, the 1966 KANU ejection of Jaramogi was engineered by TJM Friends? Mboya had almost no friends due to his go getter nature and self centeredness. He had issues even with the then humble Moi when they were elected into the Legco in '57.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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radiomast wrote:Lolest! wrote:
Jaramogi wanted Jomo released but not because he liked him but because of his(Jaramogi's) hatred for Mboya.
This does not make sense. If Jaramogi became the first president then he would have had every opportunity to finish Mboya politically. So if Jaramogi hated Mboya, he would have taken the British offer. Remember the British wanted to impose him as head of state as they had done all over Africa. Jaramogi would have then used this position to finish off the careers of Mboya and others. Oginga and Mboya were rivals but they did not hate each other. It is being overblown. Somebody here posted that Kidero and Raila hate each other. This is funny because it is Raila who imposed Kidero as the sole ODM nominee for Nairobi governor. The article below states that Mboya knew people were trying to kill him. Oginga warned him that people were trying to kill him. Mboya sought Oginga's help according to the article below. If those two hated each other then why was Mboya seeking Oginga's help to prevent the assassination? https://www.nation.co.ke...06346-c5qvyc/index.html
True that. We have discussed here before that Oginga Odinga was nationalist. HE WAS NOT A TRIBALIST. He was neither a nepotist and never selfish to seek to destroy Mboya. Instead he fought against negative ethnicity by championing the fight against poverty and liberation of all its victims across Kenya. Odinga best demonstrated his nationalism by fighting hardest for the release of Jomo Kenyatta. He fought for Jomo who was not a Luo like him but a Kikuyu. Odinga fought for the release of Kenyatta when neither Tom Mboya nor any Kikuyu leader could stand up for Kenyatta If he had not fallen out with Kenyatta, had he become 2nd president of Kenya, like President Nyerere of Tanzania, he would have transformed Kenya into a country and society not consumed by negative ethnicity as it is today.
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/17/2010 Posts: 110 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:radiomast wrote:hardwood wrote:Lolest! wrote:@hardwood, Jaramogi and Mboya were never friends but it's highly unlikely that he was to blame. Jomo's govt would have been happy to have him tried for it.
It had to be people thinking about succession politics. Kenyatta was already gray and sickly. Could the russians have meddled in kenyan politics? Note that Mboya and Kenyatta were pro-west while Jahramogi was pro-russia. And with the ageing Jomo, Mboya was the heir apparent to lead kanu and govt. It was during the cold war and the superpowers were fighting (via proxies/puppets) for world domination. Hardwoods attempts at re-writing history are rather comical.But its part of a scheme by various journalists to tell blatant lies. The person who was convicted of shooting Mboya was one Nahashon Njenga Njoroge. When he was arrested, he said there were higher people involved in the plot. Yet the judge ruled out any discussion about who was really behind the plot to kill Mboya. Question: If Oginga was involved, don't you think gava would have performed a thorough investigation, question Mr. Njoroge and gotten to the bottom of who was really behind the plot to kill Mboya?. It would have been a perfect opportunity to finish Odinga.Instead gava engaged in a stage managaed trial, no witnesses were called, no journalists witnessed the trial which was held in secret. There was no discussion of any accomplices even though Njoroge said there were higher people involved. In the end Njoroge was executed in secret. His body was never found. Sounds like a cover-up by an incumbent government, not an opposition leader. Thank you @radiomast for putting these LAZY, SIMPLISTIC, CLICHED narratives from these paid journalism.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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AlphDoti wrote:radiomast wrote:Lolest! wrote:
Jaramogi wanted Jomo released but not because he liked him but because of his(Jaramogi's) hatred for Mboya.
This does not make sense. If Jaramogi became the first president then he would have had every opportunity to finish Mboya politically. So if Jaramogi hated Mboya, he would have taken the British offer. Remember the British wanted to impose him as head of state as they had done all over Africa. Jaramogi would have then used this position to finish off the careers of Mboya and others. Oginga and Mboya were rivals but they did not hate each other. It is being overblown. Somebody here posted that Kidero and Raila hate each other. This is funny because it is Raila who imposed Kidero as the sole ODM nominee for Nairobi governor. The article below states that Mboya knew people were trying to kill him. Oginga warned him that people were trying to kill him. Mboya sought Oginga's help according to the article below. If those two hated each other then why was Mboya seeking Oginga's help to prevent the assassination? https://www.nation.co.ke...06346-c5qvyc/index.html
True that. We have discussed here before that Oginga Odinga was nationalist. HE WAS NOT A TRIBALIST. He was neither a nepotist and never selfish to seek to destroy Mboya. Instead he fought against negative ethnicity by championing the fight against poverty and liberation of all its victims across Kenya. Odinga best demonstrated his nationalism by fighting hardest for the release of Jomo Kenyatta. He fought for Jomo who was not a Luo like him but a Kikuyu. Odinga fought for the release of Kenyatta when neither Tom Mboya nor any Kikuyu leader could stand up for Kenyatta If he had not fallen out with Kenyatta, had he become 2nd president of Kenya, like President Nyerere of Tanzania, he would have transformed Kenya into a country and society not consumed by negative ethnicity as it is today. wacha nicheke tu. Reading different books that detail what happened around that time shows demanding Jomo's release was just getting with the flow. And yes, Mboya never cared that much about Kenyatta's release. He joined the bandwagon after reading the mood of the country It's not just Jaramogi who fought for Jomo. The entire African political elite wanted him free. Both KANU and Kadu wanted him as party leader
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/15/2018 Posts: 428
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Lolest! wrote:@mast, the 1966 KANU ejection of Jaramogi was engineered by TJM
Friends? Mboya had almost no friends due to his go getter nature and self centeredness.
He had issues even with the then humble Moi when they were elected into the Legco in '57.
Oginga's ejection from KANU happened because he opposed Kenyatta on a number of issues, most notably land grabbing. Mboya never engineered anything. He was simply the vehicle that was used. Oginga was toast once he opposed Kenyatta. Mboya and Oginga were not friends but to say they hated each other is hyperbole. I think Oginga had enough brains to know that he was being sidelined because of his opposition to Kenyatta, not because of Mboya. In his last days, Mboya was seeking Oginga's help because Oginga told him many times that he was in danger of being assassinated.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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radiomast wrote:Lolest! wrote:@mast, the 1966 KANU ejection of Jaramogi was engineered by TJM
Friends? Mboya had almost no friends due to his go getter nature and self centeredness.
He had issues even with the then humble Moi when they were elected into the Legco in '57.
Oginga's ejection from KANU happened because he opposed Kenyatta on a number of issues, most notably land grabbing. Mboya never engineered anything. He was simply the vehicle that was used. Oginga was toast once he opposed Kenyatta. Mboya and Oginga were not friends but to say they hated each other is hyperbole. I think Oginga had enough brains to know that he was being sidelined because of his opposition to Kenyatta, not because of Mboya. In his last days, Mboya was seeking Oginga's help because Oginga told him many times that he was in danger of being assassinated. You have conveniently chosen to ignore the fact that their rivalry started in the 50s I have no issue with the last paragraph
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