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The Senate
Shak
#21 Posted : Wednesday, June 12, 2013 3:38:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/22/2009
Posts: 2,449
Location: Africa
I think there's a problem here. The senate is basing the fifteen per cent calculation for counties on the value of the national budget as opposed to actual govt revenue collected through taxes. As it stands now the 1.6 trillion shilling budget is based on tax revenues while the balance is the deficit. Now the senators are calculating 15pc of 1.6 trillion which is about 246 billion. This can't be right. How can you demand for money that's not even there yet? The government is not even assured that they can plug this hole
kollabo
#22 Posted : Wednesday, June 12, 2013 4:12:25 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/3/2012
Posts: 1,317
Retirees indeed.
Lolest!
#23 Posted : Wednesday, June 12, 2013 4:19:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Shak wrote:
I think there's a problem here. The senate is basing the fifteen per cent calculation for counties on the value of the national budget as opposed to actual govt revenue collected through taxes. As it stands now the 1.6 trillion shilling budget is based on tax revenues while the balance is the deficit. Now the senators are calculating 15pc of 1.6 trillion which is about 246 billion. This can't be right. How can you demand for money that's not even there yet? The government is not even assured that they can plug this hole

now we're talking! This is one part that the drafters of the constitution got right
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
mkenyan
#24 Posted : Wednesday, June 12, 2013 4:43:59 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,884
Shak wrote:
I think there's a problem here. The senate is basing the fifteen per cent calculation for counties on the value of the national budget as opposed to actual govt revenue collected through taxes. As it stands now the 1.6 trillion shilling budget is based on tax revenues while the balance is the deficit. Now the senators are calculating 15pc of 1.6 trillion which is about 246 billion. This can't be right. How can you demand for money that's not even there yet? The government is not even assured that they can plug this hole

the constitution says it shall not be less than, not that it shall not be more than - so can't use the constitution to beat the senate figures.
Lolest!
#25 Posted : Wednesday, June 12, 2013 10:57:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
mkenyan wrote:
Shak wrote:
I think there's a problem here. The senate is basing the fifteen per cent calculation for counties on the value of the national budget as opposed to actual govt revenue collected through taxes. As it stands now the 1.6 trillion shilling budget is based on tax revenues while the balance is the deficit. Now the senators are calculating 15pc of 1.6 trillion which is about 246 billion. This can't be right. How can you demand for money that's not even there yet? The government is not even assured that they can plug this hole

the constitution says it shall not be less than, not that it shall not be more than - so can't use the constitution to beat the senate figures.

You don't get it. Article 203 is clear that the minimun percentage is 15pc not max. The issue is the threshold 15pc of total budget or of audited revenue? This is clear too
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Shak
#26 Posted : Wednesday, June 12, 2013 11:59:07 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/22/2009
Posts: 2,449
Location: Africa
Lolest! wrote:
mkenyan wrote:
Shak wrote:
I think there's a problem here. The senate is basing the fifteen per cent calculation for counties on the value of the national budget as opposed to actual govt revenue collected through taxes. As it stands now the 1.6 trillion shilling budget is based on tax revenues while the balance is the deficit. Now the senators are calculating 15pc of 1.6 trillion which is about 246 billion. This can't be right. How can you demand for money that's not even there yet? The government is not even assured that they can plug this hole

the constitution says it shall not be less than, not that it shall not be more than - so can't use the constitution to beat the senate figures.

You don't get it. Article 203 is clear that the minimun percentage is 15pc not max. The issue is the threshold 15pc of total budget or of audited revenue? This is clear too

It is actually the latter. And kra says it has so far collected about 500 billion. Their target by the end of this financial year is 800 billion. It's unlikely that the final audited figures will exceed kshs. 1 trillion. Which means the argument that they've not received 15 per cent does not hold and is rather premature.
mpobiz
#27 Posted : Thursday, June 13, 2013 12:36:43 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/10/2010
Posts: 2,264
THE SENATE SHOULD BE DISBANDED AND BE RENAMED
THE KENYAN COUNCIL OF ELDERS
Applause Applause Applause Applause
Politics is just things to keep the people divided and foolish and put your trust in men and none of them can do nothing for you...
Jus Blazin
#28 Posted : Thursday, June 13, 2013 10:55:33 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/23/2008
Posts: 3,966
Shotgun wrote:
alma wrote:
Devolution will make the central gov't less relevant.

That's the power of the Senate.

We are still stuck on nataka serekali mentality. Wait a couple of years when you start seeing the strength of the counties versus the central gov't.

The executive is trying to maintain its relevance in mashinani by giving less money. The national assembly knows that as the days go by, those county governors will have more money than they have and can marshall their support base at any moment.

Article 203- Equitable share and other financial laws.
(2) For every financial year, the equitable share of the revenue raised nationally that is allocated to county governments shall be not less than fifteen per cent of all revenue collected by the national government.

Is the Ksh. 210B less than 15% of the most recent audited accounts of revenue?



Money is power and the senate will decide how much money goes to mashinani.

Article 95 - Role of the National Assembly.
95.(4) The National Assembly—
(a) determines the allocation of national revenue between the levels of government, as provided in Part 4 of Chapter Twelve;

Article 217 - Division of revenue.
217. (1) Once every five years, the Senate shall, by resolution, determine the basis for allocating among the counties the share of national revenue that is annually allocated to the county level of government.

So who really has the power to decide how much money goes to mashinani?


Give it a few years and your MP will be begging for the governor's support and so will the president. The governor to perform will need the senator to get enough cash to run his agenda.

Who do you think will get more support in mashinani. The MP who will say that I made laws to help you including one that increased my salary, or the governor who will say, I built that road? The governor to build that road will need the senator. Therein lies the fight.



My take...the Supreme Court will have quite a busy schedule the next 5-10 years before people realize what they can do or not do.

According to the Articles you've quoted, the National Assembly has the power to allocate the revenue between the two levels of government, but the Senate decides how much of the 15% plus allocated revenue goes to which of the 47 counties based on the formula they come up with.
Luck is when Preparation meets Opportunity. ~ Lucius Annaeus Seneca
murchr
#29 Posted : Wednesday, March 08, 2017 12:48:10 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Senators, who hoped they were an exalted Upper House, are abandoning the Senate in droves and making a mad dash for more lucrative and powerful positions.

Even MCAs.

The Senate has been nicknamed Nyumba la Wazee, House of Retirees.

http://www.the-star.co.k...ca-and-governor_c1520141
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Lolest!
#30 Posted : Wednesday, March 08, 2017 4:58:40 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Disband this house, have a Devolution Committee in National Assembly
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Caveman
#31 Posted : Wednesday, March 08, 2017 11:53:44 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/15/2009
Posts: 371
mpobiz wrote:
THE SENATE SHOULD BE DISBANDED AND BE RENAMED
THE KENYAN COUNCIL OF ELDERS
Applause Applause Applause Applause

You cannot disband and rename. The two are mutually exclusive actions.
Lolest!
#32 Posted : Tuesday, July 24, 2018 9:22:03 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Lolest! wrote:
Disband this house, have a Devolution Committee in National Assembly

National Assembly has now threatened to disband the Senate if senators don't desist from engaging in national assembly roles eg oversight on national govt, gvt companies etc

Disband that useless house like yesterday!
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
murchr
#33 Posted : Tuesday, July 24, 2018 9:31:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Lolest! wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Disband this house, have a Devolution Committee in National Assembly

National Assembly has now threatened to disband the Senate if senators don't desist from engaging in national assembly roles eg oversight on national govt, gvt companies etc

Disband that useless house like yesterday!



Can only happen in a referendum. What they should do is do away with the allowances that come with committes
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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