Wazua
»
Groups
»
Triumph
»
Cytonn Investments
Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2007 Posts: 767
|
sparkly wrote:tom_boy wrote:Swenani wrote:tom_boy wrote:sparkly wrote:Mike Ock wrote:sparkly wrote:tom_boy wrote:KulaRaha wrote:FRM2011 wrote:
Robert Alai, Kahawa tungu and Cyprian Nyakundi. The master extortionists have all trained their guns on Cytonn.Its either they pay all be prepared for an all out dirty war. Truth and facts matter very little to these extortionists.
Soft target so easy to exploit? This story https://www.cnyakundi.co...n-cytonns-biggest-fund/
May have some truth in it. Dande did not deny that he takes cash from one investor to pay the other That was in the rich.co.ke interview, mindspeak. That is the essence of pooling funds aka banking. When you deposit your money at the bank, do you tell the Cashier not to give it to the next customer on the queue? Cytonn is not a bank, it's an investment company. Using one person's money to give previous investors their return is a ponzi. 1. I am not an Advocate for Cytonn but I am appalled by the ignorance displayed by some members here and Cytonn haters elsewhere. My analysis follows: 2. Cytonn needs to build houses, for which they need to mobilize funds. They can do this through Equity or Debt. 3. Cash and land/ property contributed by the founding shareholders and joint venture partners is Equity. They might get a return on their investment or not. Has any Equity holder complained? 4. There are different levels of debt. Bank loans whether secured or unsecured is debt. I bet that all the developments are collaterized. Has any bank complained? Sued? 5. Corporate and Individual lenders, the likes of Taleri and CMS holders are debt holders. They give their cash in return for interest payments. Has any corporate or CMS holder disputed their entitlement? Anyone forced to lend Cytonn money? Anyone sued? 6. Homeowners pay for offplan units, yet to be commenced or completed. Another line of debt. Anyone sued for late completion? 7. Goods and services procured on credit is debt. Contractor does work payable upon certification by the Architect, debt. Employees paid in arrears at the end of month, debt! Has any supplier or employee complained? Sued? 8. In conclusion, a good developer should be able to mobilize Equity and debt, match cashflow needs of the project. Too many people are commenting on issues they know nothing about. Assume I give Cms 1million today. They use it in a particular real estate project. These projects are said to return 25% to cytonn. These projects typically take 2yrs at least from start to finish. This is a very favourable estimate and it assumes build and complete sale. In those 2 yrs, I expect a 40% return on my 1m (18% compounded for 2yrs). The real estate will return 25% whether it takes longer or shorter to do the complete sale. If it takes longer, my compound interest accumulates. How on earth will they pay me off unless they take from Peter to pay me. That is where the ponzi lies. Note, my 1m is unsecured, iin a private wealth management scheme where the law assumes I knew what I was doing when I invested thus no legal recourse when things go south. Bullshit, Take case for riverun estate, a villa for the last one year was going for around 26.6m offplan sale up to Feb this year, as at March this year, the same unit is going for 29.6M.How is the return CONSTANT????All the units under CRE have gone up. Where did you get your assumption that the return is fixed regardless of the timeframe? This clearly shows that you have zero grasp on financial matters. Let's flush our ignorance as we poop in the morning. If you are indeed doing some serious investing, the average return in Kenya should not be less than 15% once you factor in inflation FYI inflation is around 6-7%, that means that the first 7% of your return is to cover inflation and would probably take you to a negative figure. Moreover, not all the funds from CMS are invested in real estate. Cytonn also invests on NSE, we are all aware that they made a return of close to 80% on KCB counter, is that a ponzi? How many wazuans have made 30%+ on NSE per year. kama hauna pesa ya kuweka Cytonn, meza mate na muwache kelele The definition of a ponzi is that if new entrants stop piling in, the game is over. If new entrants stop getting into CMS, it's game over for that vaunted 18% return. You will never ever pay 18% compounded per annum for 2 to 3 yrs banking on nic/kcb shares. That is a lie. You will never ever pay 18% compounded per year banking on real estate. You will need to complete projects and sell all units in 1 yr, impossible. The longer a project takes to sell, the more other overheads pile up. Bottom line, no real estate build will turnover your cash in under 2yrs to enable you to use the profits to consistently plug the interest gap in the Cms. CMS remains a ponzi until you can satisfy these real concerns. Matusi haitasaidia. Dande mwenyewe alisema the real estate is returning 25% to Cytonn. I doubt if this is 25% compounded per annum. 1. @tom-boy on the face of it, your arguments are very logical and compelling. Going by your very well reasoned arguments Cytonn should have failed in their housing developments, defaulted on the CMS. Yet they haven't. 2. For the reason that they are still in business, I say your arguments are bumble bee / kangaroo type of arguments. - According to studies by engineers, the laws of aerodynamics prove that the bumblebee can't fly, as it does not have the required capacity (in terms of wing area or flapping speed). - An 80 kg Kangaroo can't exist because jumping up and down repeatedly will consume more energy than it can possibly get from eating vegetation. These arguments though well rooted in pseudo science do not stop a bumble bee from flying or a kangaroo from jumping up and down. 3. Again I don't hold brief for Cytonn. However if you simply compare the 'return' on real estate versus 'return' on CMS forgetting all other aspects of real estate development then I have to say that you are feeding us with pseudo finance. 1. Thank you @sparkly for the vote of confidence. 2. The only reason cytonn exists is because the ponzi has not collapsed yet. The ponzi of new entrants is keeping it going. 3. It's fool hardy to compare a bumble bee, God's creation and an investment firm man's creation. Man's creations must make sense. 4. Those guys invested in cytonn Cms are flying naked. No legal protection, just Dandes ideas and his principles. Their investment is not directly backed by the real estate they are told that the money is going to. 5. If you hope to go far in investment, minimising loss is likely to take you further than maximising gain. Before you guys get hot under the collar, I said minimising loss, not minimising risk. To me cytonn Cms is a maximising loss strategy. 6. I rest my case. They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/26/2007 Posts: 6,514
|
Not a single Chase or Imperial customer had anything negative to say about those banks. Chase used to make super profits, as did Imperial. Not a single shareholder was unhappy. In fact, things were just peachy with personal Ferraris and hotels being built/bought. Chase had multiple foreign lenders who had given them money...huge amounts based on audited numbers and due diligences. Both banks paid over the top interest rates despite being in the same market as everyone else. And both were crap conjobs, just like Cytonn. Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
|
tom_boy wrote:sparkly wrote:tom_boy wrote:Swenani wrote:tom_boy wrote:sparkly wrote:Mike Ock wrote:sparkly wrote:tom_boy wrote:KulaRaha wrote:FRM2011 wrote:
Robert Alai, Kahawa tungu and Cyprian Nyakundi. The master extortionists have all trained their guns on Cytonn.Its either they pay all be prepared for an all out dirty war. Truth and facts matter very little to these extortionists.
Soft target so easy to exploit? This story https://www.cnyakundi.co...n-cytonns-biggest-fund/
May have some truth in it. Dande did not deny that he takes cash from one investor to pay the other That was in the rich.co.ke interview, mindspeak. That is the essence of pooling funds aka banking. When you deposit your money at the bank, do you tell the Cashier not to give it to the next customer on the queue? Cytonn is not a bank, it's an investment company. Using one person's money to give previous investors their return is a ponzi. 1. I am not an Advocate for Cytonn but I am appalled by the ignorance displayed by some members here and Cytonn haters elsewhere. My analysis follows: 2. Cytonn needs to build houses, for which they need to mobilize funds. They can do this through Equity or Debt. 3. Cash and land/ property contributed by the founding shareholders and joint venture partners is Equity. They might get a return on their investment or not. Has any Equity holder complained? 4. There are different levels of debt. Bank loans whether secured or unsecured is debt. I bet that all the developments are collaterized. Has any bank complained? Sued? 5. Corporate and Individual lenders, the likes of Taleri and CMS holders are debt holders. They give their cash in return for interest payments. Has any corporate or CMS holder disputed their entitlement? Anyone forced to lend Cytonn money? Anyone sued? 6. Homeowners pay for offplan units, yet to be commenced or completed. Another line of debt. Anyone sued for late completion? 7. Goods and services procured on credit is debt. Contractor does work payable upon certification by the Architect, debt. Employees paid in arrears at the end of month, debt! Has any supplier or employee complained? Sued? 8. In conclusion, a good developer should be able to mobilize Equity and debt, match cashflow needs of the project. Too many people are commenting on issues they know nothing about. Assume I give Cms 1million today. They use it in a particular real estate project. These projects are said to return 25% to cytonn. These projects typically take 2yrs at least from start to finish. This is a very favourable estimate and it assumes build and complete sale. In those 2 yrs, I expect a 40% return on my 1m (18% compounded for 2yrs). The real estate will return 25% whether it takes longer or shorter to do the complete sale. If it takes longer, my compound interest accumulates. How on earth will they pay me off unless they take from Peter to pay me. That is where the ponzi lies. Note, my 1m is unsecured, iin a private wealth management scheme where the law assumes I knew what I was doing when I invested thus no legal recourse when things go south. Bullshit, Take case for riverun estate, a villa for the last one year was going for around 26.6m offplan sale up to Feb this year, as at March this year, the same unit is going for 29.6M.How is the return CONSTANT????All the units under CRE have gone up. Where did you get your assumption that the return is fixed regardless of the timeframe? This clearly shows that you have zero grasp on financial matters. Let's flush our ignorance as we poop in the morning. If you are indeed doing some serious investing, the average return in Kenya should not be less than 15% once you factor in inflation FYI inflation is around 6-7%, that means that the first 7% of your return is to cover inflation and would probably take you to a negative figure. Moreover, not all the funds from CMS are invested in real estate. Cytonn also invests on NSE, we are all aware that they made a return of close to 80% on KCB counter, is that a ponzi? How many wazuans have made 30%+ on NSE per year. kama hauna pesa ya kuweka Cytonn, meza mate na muwache kelele The definition of a ponzi is that if new entrants stop piling in, the game is over. If new entrants stop getting into CMS, it's game over for that vaunted 18% return. You will never ever pay 18% compounded per annum for 2 to 3 yrs banking on nic/kcb shares. That is a lie. You will never ever pay 18% compounded per year banking on real estate. You will need to complete projects and sell all units in 1 yr, impossible. The longer a project takes to sell, the more other overheads pile up. Bottom line, no real estate build will turnover your cash in under 2yrs to enable you to use the profits to consistently plug the interest gap in the Cms. CMS remains a ponzi until you can satisfy these real concerns. Matusi haitasaidia. Dande mwenyewe alisema the real estate is returning 25% to Cytonn. I doubt if this is 25% compounded per annum. 1. @tom-boy on the face of it, your arguments are very logical and compelling. Going by your very well reasoned arguments Cytonn should have failed in their housing developments, defaulted on the CMS. Yet they haven't. 2. For the reason that they are still in business, I say your arguments are bumble bee / kangaroo type of arguments. - According to studies by engineers, the laws of aerodynamics prove that the bumblebee can't fly, as it does not have the required capacity (in terms of wing area or flapping speed). - An 80 kg Kangaroo can't exist because jumping up and down repeatedly will consume more energy than it can possibly get from eating vegetation. These arguments though well rooted in pseudo science do not stop a bumble bee from flying or a kangaroo from jumping up and down. 3. Again I don't hold brief for Cytonn. However if you simply compare the 'return' on real estate versus 'return' on CMS forgetting all other aspects of real estate development then I have to say that you are feeding us with pseudo finance. 1. Thank you @sparkly for the vote of confidence. 2. The only reason cytonn exists is because the ponzi has not collapsed yet. The ponzi of new entrants is keeping it going. 3. It's fool hardy to compare a bumble bee, God's creation and an investment firm man's creation. Man's creations must make sense. 4. Those guys invested in cytonn Cms are flying naked. No legal protection, just Dandes ideas and his principles. Their investment is not directly backed by the real estate they are told that the money is going to. 5. If you hope to go far in investment, minimising loss is likely to take you further than maximising gain. Before you guys get hot under the collar, I said minimising loss, not minimising risk. To me cytonn Cms is a maximising loss strategy. 6. I rest my case. 1. I own two businesses that have not grown as fast as I anticipated. My main challenges are mobilizing cash for expansion and capturing market share from established players. 2. Cytonn has done both well in a short span. 3. Whether Cytonn succeeds or fails, it will remain a case study in both areas. My case rests. Life is short. Live passionately.
|
|
|
Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
|
tom_boy wrote:sparkly wrote:tom_boy wrote:Swenani wrote:tom_boy wrote:sparkly wrote:Mike Ock wrote:sparkly wrote:tom_boy wrote:KulaRaha wrote:FRM2011 wrote:
Robert Alai, Kahawa tungu and Cyprian Nyakundi. The master extortionists have all trained their guns on Cytonn.Its either they pay all be prepared for an all out dirty war. Truth and facts matter very little to these extortionists.
Soft target so easy to exploit? This story https://www.cnyakundi.co...n-cytonns-biggest-fund/
May have some truth in it. Dande did not deny that he takes cash from one investor to pay the other That was in the rich.co.ke interview, mindspeak. That is the essence of pooling funds aka banking. When you deposit your money at the bank, do you tell the Cashier not to give it to the next customer on the queue? Cytonn is not a bank, it's an investment company. Using one person's money to give previous investors their return is a ponzi. 1. I am not an Advocate for Cytonn but I am appalled by the ignorance displayed by some members here and Cytonn haters elsewhere. My analysis follows: 2. Cytonn needs to build houses, for which they need to mobilize funds. They can do this through Equity or Debt. 3. Cash and land/ property contributed by the founding shareholders and joint venture partners is Equity. They might get a return on their investment or not. Has any Equity holder complained? 4. There are different levels of debt. Bank loans whether secured or unsecured is debt. I bet that all the developments are collaterized. Has any bank complained? Sued? 5. Corporate and Individual lenders, the likes of Taleri and CMS holders are debt holders. They give their cash in return for interest payments. Has any corporate or CMS holder disputed their entitlement? Anyone forced to lend Cytonn money? Anyone sued? 6. Homeowners pay for offplan units, yet to be commenced or completed. Another line of debt. Anyone sued for late completion? 7. Goods and services procured on credit is debt. Contractor does work payable upon certification by the Architect, debt. Employees paid in arrears at the end of month, debt! Has any supplier or employee complained? Sued? 8. In conclusion, a good developer should be able to mobilize Equity and debt, match cashflow needs of the project. Too many people are commenting on issues they know nothing about. Assume I give Cms 1million today. They use it in a particular real estate project. These projects are said to return 25% to cytonn. These projects typically take 2yrs at least from start to finish. This is a very favourable estimate and it assumes build and complete sale. In those 2 yrs, I expect a 40% return on my 1m (18% compounded for 2yrs). The real estate will return 25% whether it takes longer or shorter to do the complete sale. If it takes longer, my compound interest accumulates. How on earth will they pay me off unless they take from Peter to pay me. That is where the ponzi lies. Note, my 1m is unsecured, iin a private wealth management scheme where the law assumes I knew what I was doing when I invested thus no legal recourse when things go south. Bullshit, Take case for riverun estate, a villa for the last one year was going for around 26.6m offplan sale up to Feb this year, as at March this year, the same unit is going for 29.6M.How is the return CONSTANT????All the units under CRE have gone up. Where did you get your assumption that the return is fixed regardless of the timeframe? This clearly shows that you have zero grasp on financial matters. Let's flush our ignorance as we poop in the morning. If you are indeed doing some serious investing, the average return in Kenya should not be less than 15% once you factor in inflation FYI inflation is around 6-7%, that means that the first 7% of your return is to cover inflation and would probably take you to a negative figure. Moreover, not all the funds from CMS are invested in real estate. Cytonn also invests on NSE, we are all aware that they made a return of close to 80% on KCB counter, is that a ponzi? How many wazuans have made 30%+ on NSE per year. kama hauna pesa ya kuweka Cytonn, meza mate na muwache kelele The definition of a ponzi is that if new entrants stop piling in, the game is over. If new entrants stop getting into CMS, it's game over for that vaunted 18% return. You will never ever pay 18% compounded per annum for 2 to 3 yrs banking on nic/kcb shares. That is a lie. You will never ever pay 18% compounded per year banking on real estate. You will need to complete projects and sell all units in 1 yr, impossible. The longer a project takes to sell, the more other overheads pile up. Bottom line, no real estate build will turnover your cash in under 2yrs to enable you to use the profits to consistently plug the interest gap in the Cms. CMS remains a ponzi until you can satisfy these real concerns. Matusi haitasaidia. Dande mwenyewe alisema the real estate is returning 25% to Cytonn. I doubt if this is 25% compounded per annum. 1. @tom-boy on the face of it, your arguments are very logical and compelling. Going by your very well reasoned arguments Cytonn should have failed in their housing developments, defaulted on the CMS. Yet they haven't. 2. For the reason that they are still in business, I say your arguments are bumble bee / kangaroo type of arguments. - According to studies by engineers, the laws of aerodynamics prove that the bumblebee can't fly, as it does not have the required capacity (in terms of wing area or flapping speed). - An 80 kg Kangaroo can't exist because jumping up and down repeatedly will consume more energy than it can possibly get from eating vegetation. These arguments though well rooted in pseudo science do not stop a bumble bee from flying or a kangaroo from jumping up and down. 3. Again I don't hold brief for Cytonn. However if you simply compare the 'return' on real estate versus 'return' on CMS forgetting all other aspects of real estate development then I have to say that you are feeding us with pseudo finance. 1. Thank you @sparkly for the vote of confidence. 2. The only reason cytonn exists is because the ponzi has not collapsed yet. The ponzi of new entrants is keeping it going. - CMS clients for Cytonn have stagnated at about 3,5003. It's fool hardy to compare a bumble bee, God's creation and an investment firm man's creation. Man's creations must make sense. 4. Those guys invested in cytonn Cms are flying naked. No legal protection, just Dandes ideas and his principles. Their investment is not directly backed by the real estate they are told that the money is going to.- Please read before you post such things boss. Alternatively, walk to their office to be taken through their CMS. As ot 9th July 2018, CMS is moving under CAM which is regulated by CMA. Again NOT ALL CMS funds END UP in CRE5. If you hope to go far in investment, minimising loss is likely to take you further than maximising gain. Before you guys get hot under the collar, I said minimising loss, not minimising risk. To me cytonn Cms is a maximising loss strategy. Eehe, CFSF under Cyton has an annualized return of over 40% since late 2015 mainly from investing in financial services stocks in SSA 6. I rest my case. Me too. Wacha nichomeke niugue nikue ash ni-evaporate Quote:Traditional / Conventional Transaction Scenario: A saver with money takes it to the bank and gets little to no return on their deposit. The bank in turn lends the money to, say, a developer and charges market rate cost of borrowing. The bank enjoys the difference between the cost of the deposit paid to saver and the yield on loan received from the developer. This is illustrated below:
Saver has Kshs. 10 million; he can go deposit it in a bank and get at best 7% per annum return on the deposit,
Developer can then go to the bank and borrow the Kshs. 10 million from the bank. Remember the bank will be lending to Mr. Developer the same Kshs. 10 million that the bank got from Mr. Saver, but the all-in cost after all bank charges and loan fees comes to about 18% per annum,
Developer will then use the money to develop a house and sell it for Kshs. 12.5 million, essentially making a gross return of 25%, or Kshs. 2.5 on the Kshs. 10 million loan,
Developer will then pay to the bank the Kshs. 10 million loan plus 18% total cost of loan, equal to Kshs. 1.8 million, so a total of Kshs. 11.8 million goes back to the bank, leaving Mr. Developer with Kshs. 0.7 million of profit.
A Structured Transaction Scenario: In the structured scenario, the facts remain essential the same, except that the intermediary is not a bank but an investment vehicle; the saver with money takes it to an investment professional, through an Investment Vehicle, who gives the money directly to the developer. The developer will still pay the usual cost of borrowing, but instead of paying it to the bank, it will be paid to the Investment Vehicle, which this will pass the returns to the saver. By structuring out the bank, the saver has been able to increase the returns from the typical rate of return given on deposits, to the typical rate of borrowing paid by developers. This is illustrated below:
Saver has changed to Mr. Investor and channels his Kshs. 10 million to an Investment Vehicle managed by an investment professional,
Developer can then go borrow the Kshs. 10 million from the Investment Vehicle and pay the same 18% per annum they would have paid to the bank in the conventional scenario,
Developer will then use the money to develop a house and sell it for Kshs. 12.5 million, essentially making a gross return of 25% or Kshs. 2.5 million on the Kshs. 10 million loan,
Developer will then pay to the Investment Vehicle the Kshs. 10 million loan plus 18% total cost of loan, or Kshs 1.8 million, which will be paid to Mr. Investor,
As a result, a total of Kshs 11.8 million goes to Mr. Saver turned Mr. Investor, leaving Mr. Developer with Kshs 0.7 million of profit. If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2007 Posts: 767
|
That is the most lame/ fake explanation ever. 1. Bank savings at 7% compounded will give a total return of 14% in 2 yrs. The developer will borrow at 18% per yr thus bank has lots of room to manage risk. The developer borrows on reducing balance. 2. In scenario 2, the developer is borrowing at 18% on reducing balance while the investment manager has promised 18% compounded to poor Wanjiku. Will never add up. They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
|
tom_boy wrote:That is the most lame/ fake explanation ever.
1. Bank savings at 7% compounded will give a total return of 14% in 2 yrs. The developer will borrow at 18% per yr thus bank has lots of room to manage risk. The developer borrows on reducing balance.
2. In scenario 2, the developer is borrowing at 18% on reducing balance while the investment manager has promised 18% compounded to poor Wanjiku. Will never add up. Investment Banker, Investment Manager and Developer are the same person, a Trinity of some sort. CMS holders get 18% return but cost of the funds to the Trinity is much lower than 18% since debt is a deductible expense. Life is short. Live passionately.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/26/2007 Posts: 6,514
|
So Cytonn knows that their 18% return is fishy as hell...they hear it all the time, its a public conversation. however, in a ponzi, its almost impossible to reduce the rate because its only the rate that attracts suckers... Just like how Chase and Imperial used to attract depositors...see how much KTDA et al lost in those two junk banks. Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2007 Posts: 767
|
KulaRaha wrote:So Cytonn knows that their 18% return is fishy as hell...they hear it all the time, its a public conversation.
however, in a ponzi, its almost impossible to reduce the rate because its only the rate that attracts suckers...
Just like how Chase and Imperial used to attract depositors...see how much KTDA et al lost in those two junk banks. Nail on the head They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
|
tom_boy wrote:KulaRaha wrote:So Cytonn knows that their 18% return is fishy as hell...they hear it all the time, its a public conversation.
however, in a ponzi, its almost impossible to reduce the rate because its only the rate that attracts suckers...
Just like how Chase and Imperial used to attract depositors...see how much KTDA et al lost in those two junk banks. Nail on the head How is it fishy when the rates for privately arranged unsecured debt ranges from 13%-22%? Even the cancelled Home Afrika Bond was 17%. Life is short. Live passionately.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/26/2007 Posts: 6,514
|
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
|
@Kularaha do you know people people even borrow at 10% per month to close cashflow gaps? Life is short. Live passionately.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/26/2007 Posts: 6,514
|
sparkly wrote:@Kularaha do you know people people even borrow at 10% per month to close cashflow gaps? For this discussion, I define cash flow gap as the difference between the timing of cash inflows and outflows. ... For profitable operations, the financing of a cash flow gap is temporary in nature and is effectively bridge financing where the beginning and the end of a cash flow gap is clearly defined. http://blog.businessfina...capital-bridge-financingBusiness opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
|
KulaRaha wrote:@Kularaha do you know people people even borrow at 10% per month to close cashflow gaps? For this discussion, I define cash flow gap as the difference between the timing of cash inflows and outflows. ... For profitable operations, the financing of a cash flow gap is temporary in nature and is effectively bridge financing where the beginning and the end of a cash flow gap is clearly defined. http://blog.businessfina...apital-bridge-financing[/quote] Ok you win. Demonstrate to us how your own business is faring. Life is short. Live passionately.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 5/25/2012 Posts: 4,105 Location: 08c
|
sparkly wrote:KulaRaha wrote:sparkly wrote:@Kularaha do you know people people even borrow at 10% per month to close cashflow gaps? For this discussion, I define cash flow gap as the difference between the timing of cash inflows and outflows. ... For profitable operations, the financing of a cash flow gap is temporary in nature and is effectively bridge financing where the beginning and the end of a cash flow gap is clearly defined. http://blog.businessfina...apital-bridge-financing Ok you win. Demonstrate to us how your own business is faring. You were doing so well until......  Pesa Nane plans to be shilingi when he grows up.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 5/25/2012 Posts: 4,105 Location: 08c
|
Kshs. 82 BILLION Cytonn Real Estate at a glance:Amara Ridge, Karen: 100% complete, Fully sold  The Alma, Ruaka: 64% complete, 55% sold NewTown, Athi River: Yet to break ground, 5% soldTaraji Heights, Ruaka: 33% complete, 14% soldThe Ridge, Ridgeways: Ground breaking, Ph.1 37% soldSitu Village, Ololua: Yet to break ground, 26% sold (matters in court)Project Westlands, Westlands: Yet to break ground, Nil salesRiverRun Estate, Ruiru: Ground breaking, 11% soldCytonn Towers, Kilimani: Yet to break ground, Ph.1 20% sold. Legal hurdles likely Applewood, Miotoni: Yet to break ground, Nil salesRed = Construction / Sales below 50% Pesa Nane plans to be shilingi when he grows up.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
|
Pesa Nane wrote:sparkly wrote:KulaRaha wrote:sparkly wrote:@Kularaha do you know people people even borrow at 10% per month to close cashflow gaps? For this discussion, I define cash flow gap as the difference between the timing of cash inflows and outflows. ... For profitable operations, the financing of a cash flow gap is temporary in nature and is effectively bridge financing where the beginning and the end of a cash flow gap is clearly defined. http://blog.businessfina...apital-bridge-financing Ok you win. Demonstrate to us how your own business is faring. You were doing so well until...... I will continue if I get a retainer from Cytonn  Life is short. Live passionately.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,519 Location: nairobi
|
sparkly wrote:Pesa Nane wrote:sparkly wrote:KulaRaha wrote:sparkly wrote:@Kularaha do you know people people even borrow at 10% per month to close cashflow gaps? For this discussion, I define cash flow gap as the difference between the timing of cash inflows and outflows. ... For profitable operations, the financing of a cash flow gap is temporary in nature and is effectively bridge financing where the beginning and the end of a cash flow gap is clearly defined. http://blog.businessfina...apital-bridge-financing Ok you win. Demonstrate to us how your own business is faring. You were doing so well until...... I will continue if I get a retainer from Cytonn They have now changed the name of Cytonn Cash Management to Cytonn High Yield.. What's in a name? Your guess is as good as mine
HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
|
obiero wrote:sparkly wrote:Pesa Nane wrote:sparkly wrote:KulaRaha wrote:sparkly wrote:@Kularaha do you know people people even borrow at 10% per month to close cashflow gaps? For this discussion, I define cash flow gap as the difference between the timing of cash inflows and outflows. ... For profitable operations, the financing of a cash flow gap is temporary in nature and is effectively bridge financing where the beginning and the end of a cash flow gap is clearly defined. http://blog.businessfina...apital-bridge-financing Ok you win. Demonstrate to us how your own business is faring. You were doing so well until...... I will continue if I get a retainer from Cytonn They have now changed the name of Cytonn Cash Management to Cytonn High Yield.. What's in a name? Your guess is as good as mine Btw Nabo/Centum also has a CMS type of product for the real estate business. They pay interest at 21% but it is only available to managed account investors with KShs 50m or more. Life is short. Live passionately.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,519 Location: nairobi
|
sparkly wrote:obiero wrote:sparkly wrote:Pesa Nane wrote:sparkly wrote:KulaRaha wrote:sparkly wrote:@Kularaha do you know people people even borrow at 10% per month to close cashflow gaps? 21% rate of return in this market is simply black magic.. For this discussion, I define cash flow gap as the difference between the timing of cash inflows and outflows. ... For profitable operations, the financing of a cash flow gap is temporary in nature and is effectively bridge financing where the beginning and the end of a cash flow gap is clearly defined. http://blog.businessfina...apital-bridge-financing Ok you win. Demonstrate to us how your own business is faring. You were doing so well until...... I will continue if I get a retainer from Cytonn They have now changed the name of Cytonn Cash Management to Cytonn High Yield.. What's in a name? Your guess is as good as mine Btw Nabo/Centum also has a CMS type of product for the real estate business. They pay interest at 21% but it is only available to managed account investors with KShs 50m or more. 21% rate of return in this market is simply black magic
HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
|
|
|
Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
|
obiero wrote:sparkly wrote:obiero wrote:sparkly wrote:Pesa Nane wrote:sparkly wrote:KulaRaha wrote:sparkly wrote:@Kularaha do you know people people even borrow at 10% per month to close cashflow gaps? 21% rate of return in this market is simply black magic.. For this discussion, I define cash flow gap as the difference between the timing of cash inflows and outflows. ... For profitable operations, the financing of a cash flow gap is temporary in nature and is effectively bridge financing where the beginning and the end of a cash flow gap is clearly defined. http://blog.businessfina...apital-bridge-financing Ok you win. Demonstrate to us how your own business is faring. You were doing so well until...... I will continue if I get a retainer from Cytonn They have now changed the name of Cytonn Cash Management to Cytonn High Yield.. What's in a name? Your guess is as good as mine Btw Nabo/Centum also has a CMS type of product for the real estate business. They pay interest at 21% but it is only available to managed account investors with KShs 50m or more. 21% rate of return in this market is simply black magic Shida ya kuzoea negative returns in KQ Do you want to say that the guys who take loans at +15% p.a are making losses or how are they able to pay off the loan+interest, pay operational costs and still make a profit? If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
|
|
|
Wazua
»
Groups
»
Triumph
»
Cytonn Investments
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
|