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@Mtu biz finds an interesting ting.
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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There's a quote alluded to Jesus in the Bible, that's definitely contrary to what Jesus could have ever said.
And so, given the circumstances of the New Testament writing, it leaves us with no option but to take the Bible with the pinch of salt it deserves.
In other words, we've been brainwashed.
Hypnosis. To base our lives unthinkingly on a book. And an ethos based on theological scholarship alone is mental slavery.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320
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What happens to Sola Scriptura ?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Mtu Biz wrote: What happens to Sola Scriptura ? I have reason to suspect that 'Sola scriptura' was an invention of Frederick the Great and not Luther. Luther was a mere reformer who found himself with an emergency. He wasn't even sure that Frederick would protect him... So, we live defenses aside for the moment. The real issue is on what we can base our ethics.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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The story of the gospels can't be of universal significance, and, the idea of salvation has only been dealt with in the most superficial of ways.
The gospels, are simply the work of Jewish propaganda.
Example: What causes dis-ease, and what does it take, or even mean to heal?
If just touching the hem of his garment results in healing why doesn't Nicodemus's conversation get him eternal life, which, for all reasons is equal to healing?
The healing stories then amount to mystical stories that were an expected part of a well crafted narrative. Otherwise all healed would qualify for eternal life.
And that would nullify Christ's demands on Nicodemus.
So there's a mixture of myth, legend, and history in the Gospels, and hence the truth of the Bible can only be contingent.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320
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tycho wrote:There's a quote alluded to Jesus in the Bible, that's definitely contrary to what Jesus could have ever said.
And so, given the circumstances of the New Testament writing, it leaves us with no option but to take the Bible with the pinch of salt it deserves.
In other words, we've been brainwashed.
Hypnosis. To base our lives unthinkingly on a book. And an ethos based on theological scholarship alone is mental slavery. Which one ?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Mtu Biz wrote:tycho wrote:There's a quote alluded to Jesus in the Bible, that's definitely contrary to what Jesus could have ever said.
And so, given the circumstances of the New Testament writing, it leaves us with no option but to take the Bible with the pinch of salt it deserves.
In other words, we've been brainwashed.
Hypnosis. To base our lives unthinkingly on a book. And an ethos based on theological scholarship alone is mental slavery. Which one ? Hahaha. It's taken you quite a while to ask this question. It should have been the first. Matthew 5:27-28
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320
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Wacha kucheka, you are making serious allegations. In what way is this 27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[a] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. Contrary to his other teaching?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Mtu Biz wrote:Wacha kucheka, you are making serious allegations.
In what way is this
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[a] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Contrary to his other teaching? All other teachings are focused on the understanding of human nature and the relief from guilt. This verse, is decidedly focused on the imposition of guilt, and, even has hints of not understanding human nature. So, if this is true, and Christ was for the first position then the latter can't be his words.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320
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tycho wrote:Mtu Biz wrote:Wacha kucheka, you are making serious allegations.
In what way is this
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[a] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Contrary to his other teaching? All other teachings are focused on the understanding of human nature and the relief from guilt. This verse, is decidedly focused on the imposition of guilt, and, even has hints of not understanding human nature. So, if this is true, and Christ was for the first position then the latter can't be his words. Then his teachings which focus on understanding of human nature may be limited to the beatitudes and some parables. Otherwise verses like Matthew 5:22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell. Fall under your "Edited Bible" Category.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Let's call my verse '5:27' and your counter, '5:22'.
Your argument basically is that 5:22 and 5:27 are equivalent in form, and implication, and thus only a small portion remaining would qualify the 'Christ condition'.
Granted, they appear to have the same form. That is, 'If, then'.
But do they have the same implication?
5:22 implies a consequence or consequences of a state of being. 5:27 implies a state of being.
5:22 is then resonant with the Christ condition.
5:27 is the contrary to the Christ condition still.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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The Bible and the Holy texts should be read as one reads a dream.
It doesn't take simple literacy to know how to read the Bible. And the logic of the woken life can't suffice the understanding of the scriptures.
That's what makes the scriptures holy.
The scriptures are also about Matthew or Luke or Paul as persons and as dreamers.
In studying Scriptures we study dreamers, their dreams, and our dreams. And properly handled, they are extremely powerful.
Unfortunately, the tradition of Scripture is now greatly weakened. And why is that so?
Because of improper teaching and preparation.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@Mundu, John 8:1-11.
Why did Jesus write on the ground? What was he writing?
Do you think this act of writing has a significance that may have eluded us?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320
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tycho wrote:@Mundu, John 8:1-11.
Why did Jesus write on the ground? What was he writing?
Do you think this act of writing has a significance that may have eluded us? Just re read that passage. Had never given it much thought. He clearly is more eager to write than to verbally respond to the pharisees. I suspect this may be significant... bait taken. Vuta kamba.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Mtu Biz wrote:tycho wrote:@Mundu, John 8:1-11.
Why did Jesus write on the ground? What was he writing?
Do you think this act of writing has a significance that may have eluded us? Just re read that passage. Had never given it much thought. He clearly is more eager to write than to verbally respond to the pharisees. I suspect this may be significant... bait taken. Vuta kamba. The writing is symbolic of an elite, probably of Hellenic qualities. John is legitimizing 'Jesus Christ' in terms of Greek philosophical practice. If true, why is it necessary?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Before I say anything, let me say the law is there in Islam, but you need four witnesses to apply the law. Otherwise, the accuser will given 80 lashes for false accusation.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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tycho wrote:Mtu Biz wrote:tycho wrote:@Mundu, John 8:1-11.
Why did Jesus write on the ground? What was he writing?
Do you think this act of writing has a significance that may have eluded us? Just re read that passage. Had never given it much thought. He clearly is more eager to write than to verbally respond to the pharisees. I suspect this may be significant... bait taken. Vuta kamba. The writing is symbolic of an elite, probably of Hellenic qualities. John is legitimizing 'Jesus Christ' in terms of Greek philosophical practice. If true, why is it necessary? They had brought a woman accusing her of adultery, but where was the man? Remember Jesus a.s. called those accusers "an evil and adulterous generation.." in many occasions. I think he knew them. So I think Jesus a.s. started writing on the ground the names... On such a such a day John + Jane, Peter+Peninnah, David+Dinah etc etc... so they came looking over his shoulder, noticing their names on the sand, they bolted one by one... when Jesus a.s looked around, nobody!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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Mtu Biz wrote:Wacha kucheka, you are making serious allegations.
In what way is this
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[a] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Contrary to his other teaching? Chapter 28 is an addition to Chapter 27, not a contradiction at all. Adultery as described in the old testament involved two but you can commit it alone too, that's what he meant. If you look at a woman lustfully, you have committed adultery with her in your heart. You have probably undressed her and done the did with her in your mind, even wanked on it... That's what it means. If the ssid woman goes with you then you both sin together but also by yourself without her. BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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The contradiction is: Christ is about removal of guilt and not the adding or compounding of.
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