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PCEA vs Kikuyu Kiama
FRM2011
#41 Posted : Friday, May 25, 2018 8:29:45 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/5/2010
Posts: 2,459
@kaigangio, much respect. You know your stuff. Where I differ with you us when you call it a renaissance. It's not. It's just a popular trend amongst Kikuyu men of our generation. The fact that all senior politicians endorsed it as joined the kiamas could actually be the key factor driving their popularity.

I have been under immense pressure from my friends here in Nairobi to join. Some of my friends hold leadership positions in their "mwaki". Back in the village, folks can't understand why I am yet o join. Truth is,I have never found a compelling reason to join. And now the PCEA church has come to my rescue. All I have to say is that my church is against it.

And its true, the church has been struggling to get men into church. But their women are neck-deep in church matters.
masukuma
#42 Posted : Friday, May 25, 2018 10:17:41 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
@masukuma, myths are not the triffling things that you present them as.

And myths are never arbitrary.

Also know there can never be pure intersubjectivity without objectivity.

Far from it -myths are some of the best things we humans have ever come up with. they guide our everyday lives and have fashioned us into the species we are today. this does not change the fact that they are MADE UP! some are important, cute but still MADE UP! Just like movies - not all myths are rated the same. some are better than others. Newer movies tend to be better than old movies as more thought has been put in and they have been developed around a more comprehensive worldview. The same thing with myths - not all myths are the same and GENERALLY speaking... myths that have had more thought put into them and developed in the context of a much more comprehensive worldview are more productive to the adherents than older parochial myths.
We therefore cannot allow ourselves to be bullied into following myths that have no consequence - it's rather daft to allow yourself to do so. What is the appeal of this 'Kiama' myth? what is the threat being used to lure people into this 'Kiama' myth and propagate it??
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
FundamentAli
#43 Posted : Friday, May 25, 2018 11:15:00 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/4/2008
Posts: 1,289
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
Na free masonry ni ukristo?


PCEA has linkage with that fraternity. They have never disowned it
masukuma
#44 Posted : Friday, May 25, 2018 11:28:33 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
FundamentAli wrote:
tycho wrote:
Na free masonry ni ukristo?


PCEA has linkage with that fraternity. They have never disowned it

What is 'free masonry'? who are/were the 'Illuminati'?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Taurrus
#45 Posted : Friday, May 25, 2018 11:58:57 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/25/2015
Posts: 839
Location: Kite
Lolest! wrote:
Quote:
Picking a fight with the Kiama, at a time when traditional institutions have been on a renaissance everywhere, is scoring a stupid own goal.

Stupid own goal? Is the role of the church to encourage people to fill up church without caring what they believe in?

That would be a big interreligious social club! Not church.

The church has one big role-pointing people to Christ. Of course people offering sacrifices to ancestors defeats this aim!


ancestor in American. (ˈænˌsɛstər ; anˈsesˌtər; also, ˈænsəstər ; anˈsəstər; ˈænsɪstər ; anˈsistər) any person from whom one is descended, esp. one earlier in a family line than a grandparent

Sasa what's more important than where you descended from? it's a sure thing,not a myth as @masukuma puts it, to me it's worth a goat now and then.Shame on you
Wakanyugi
#46 Posted : Friday, May 25, 2018 12:25:53 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,635
Lolest! wrote:
Quote:
Picking a fight with the Kiama, at a time when traditional institutions have been on a renaissance everywhere, is scoring a stupid own goal.

Stupid own goal? Is the role of the church to encourage people to fill up church without caring what they believe in?

That would be a big interreligious social club! Not church.

The church has one big role-pointing people to Christ. Of course people offering sacrifices to ancestors defeats this aim!


So you think numbers don't matter? Why do you bother with all those Ministry for Christ etc stuff?
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Wakanyugi
#47 Posted : Friday, May 25, 2018 12:31:33 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,635
FundamentAli wrote:
tycho wrote:
Na free masonry ni ukristo?


PCEA has linkage with that fraternity. They have never disowned it


Not just PCEA. Most mainstream Church Cathedrals were built by the Guild of the free Masons. That is how practically every Free Mason lodge came to be located near a Church. It was a shelter for 'watu was mjengo'
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
masukuma
#48 Posted : Friday, May 25, 2018 12:32:01 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
Taurrus wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Quote:
Picking a fight with the Kiama, at a time when traditional institutions have been on a renaissance everywhere, is scoring a stupid own goal.

Stupid own goal? Is the role of the church to encourage people to fill up church without caring what they believe in?

That would be a big interreligious social club! Not church.

The church has one big role-pointing people to Christ. Of course people offering sacrifices to ancestors defeats this aim!


ancestor in American. (ˈænˌsɛstər ; anˈsesˌtər; also, ˈænsəstər ; anˈsəstər; ˈænsɪstər ; anˈsistər) any person from whom one is descended, esp. one earlier in a family line than a grandparent

Sasa what's more important than where you descended from? it's a sure thing,not a myth as @masukuma puts it, to me it's worth a goat now and then.Shame on you

Your ancestors are not a myth - what drives your reverence to them IS! the idea that makes you subjectively deduce that 'reverence to your ancestors is worth a goat now and then' is the myth we are talking about! it's an idea... something in your head... that is why you said
Quote:
it's a sure thing,not a myth as @masukuma puts it, TO ME it's worth a goat now and then.
- very subjective. let's test this - what happens if you don't give a goat "now and then"? what happens?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Much Know
#49 Posted : Friday, May 25, 2018 12:36:00 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,582
masukuma wrote:
FundamentAli wrote:
tycho wrote:
Na free masonry ni ukristo?


PCEA has linkage with that fraternity. They have never disowned it

What is 'free masonry'? who are/were the 'Illuminati'?

Officially on their websites and openly a bunch/brotherhood of "esoteric" (magic rituals) practitioners under worshipful masters. They built most Churches in Kenya like Anglican, PCEA in Kenya and supplied with with dogma, hymn books, structure and funds to establish and support their esoteric ideologies, several "high level" church officials are freemasons. There are about four huge branches, Grand lodge of england, website www.ugle.org.uk who are in charge of the nyerere road goons (http://www.dgleastafrica.org/), which is mostly wahindis and wazungus, attended their dinner once as a guest at KICC in the 90's, the USA the has Southern and Northern Districts which are two and three, then there are "princehall" as number four aka African masufferer freemasons also called boule, (the pointi children of these wazungus), they are also called "irregular" in the states and by some others, Freenasons more or less own the US, e.g Georgia. They were in trouble in the Kenyan court system for colluding to write judgement, one Judge AB Shah, was making all his ruling to favor them and was sacked from bench, they almost own the law in Kenya, the also fund several politicians campaigns.
Ras Kienyeji Man
whiteowl
#50 Posted : Friday, May 25, 2018 12:37:48 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 4/16/2014
Posts: 1,420
Location: Bohemian Grove
Wakanyugi wrote:
FundamentAli wrote:
tycho wrote:
Na free masonry ni ukristo?


PCEA has linkage with that fraternity. They have never disowned it


Not just PCEA. Most mainstream Church Cathedrals were built by the Guild of the free Masons. That is how practically every Free Mason lodge came to be located near a Church. It was a shelter for 'watu was mjengo'


They also build most of the old notable buildings we have around.
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