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Insightful take on Nairobi Real Estate
VituVingiSana
#61 Posted : Saturday, September 03, 2011 10:16:42 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,346
Location: Nairobi
Part of the increase in prices may be attributed to speculation. In any event, I am staying out since I don't have the ability (or skill) to use vacant land for anything else but 'hold' it.

If I could buy a decent farm with a steady water source at a reasonable price... I would rent it out. The rent would determine how much I would pay for the land.

Unless you can use it - reducing the holding cost - it is tough especially if the funds are BORROWED. Today banks are lending at 16% (or more) which means the MINIMUM the land has to appreciate is 16% per annum + taxes + other incidentals.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
tony stark
#62 Posted : Saturday, September 03, 2011 4:23:22 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/8/2008
Posts: 947
@ Vitu was just looking at old thread as I re evaluate my holdings. I realized I might be overlooking real estate. I am re questioning this bubble scenario every one is saying we are in. Growing economy, rural urban migration, is just going to increase demand especially in middle and lower income housing.
My plan get a mortgage which I can definitely channel money I have been pumping into the NSE into the mortgage and get a tenant to pump in the rest. Buying a 4.8 m house get a 3.8 m mortgage. Repayment come to 50K rent comes to 30 K which I will be pumping direct into the principal and repayment will be done in 5 years as opposed to 15 years. At the end i will have paid around 4.8 m + my initial deposit of 1m total investment is 5.8m. The key is to pay into the principal from the get go and this reduces the interest you have to pay.
@ nabwire there are only 16000 mortgages in Kenya. Don't expect to see a flood of bank repos in kenya. Most property is bought cash and through sacco loans. I have been looking through HFCK private treaty properties (Your bank repo) and I can tell you good deals are rare and usually due to other reasons not foreclosure. Surprisingly enough the property on foreclosure are usually more expensive.
My 2 cents
VituVingiSana
#63 Posted : Saturday, September 03, 2011 4:39:03 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,346
Location: Nairobi
@TS - A house for 4.8mn yielding 30,000/- rent =

360,000 / 4,800,000 = 7.5% is not bad. Please factor in losses/repairs/vacancies as well which will reduce the 7.5% to 6.5%

Growing Economy - Yes
Rural-Urban Migration - Not for 30,000/- rent but cheaper accommodation unless you rent a room by room

BTW, your Mortgage Interest is higher than 50,000/month @ 16% for 3.8mn. Also add closing costs + other annual fees. You will also need to pay something on the Principal annually.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
tony stark
#64 Posted : Monday, September 05, 2011 9:22:13 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/8/2008
Posts: 947
@ Vitu ... I bought it off plan. The price he is selling when complete is 5.5-5.6m. So the return is really not that good for the people who buy then.
I would also include rural urban since the rural "rich" are also moving to Nairobi or trying to set up base in Nairobi also. I know a few I was a raised in shagz and Nai.
The mortgage is at 13.5% with HFCK and there are ways to reduce/ negotiate the rate. If you have a crossover account with HFCK you get discounts on the rate, commitment fees etc.
On the closing cost I negotiated the rate with the valuer, tried with the lawyer and got a minuscule/ token discount. The argument I put forward to them is I'm young under 30, im the first in my cohort of professional friends to foray into mortgages, giving me a discount will ensure i refer my colleagues to them. Worked well with the valuer the lawyer was well established and i guess with lots of clients so was not impressed by my pitch. But i agree closing cost come to 10% of the sale price.
In retrospect I think I should have looked at other forms of mortgage eg kusco mortgage loans, sharia loans etc. Lessons learnt.
VituVingiSana
#65 Posted : Monday, September 05, 2011 11:13:47 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,346
Location: Nairobi
@TS - Are you sure the Mortgage is at 13.5% (below what HFCK would make on a T-Bond?)

Banks is Kenya have a bad habit which CBK refuses to correct/fix... The interest should be APR-based not nominal rate.

What is a Crossover Account?

(As I understand it) Doesn't that imply that you place money with them at a lower rate that they 'lend' to you? You lose the difference between what they pay (less 15% WTax) & what you pay them!

Also a cost to consider is that you paid a deposit - those funds have a cost until the house is delivered to you.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
StatMeister
#66 Posted : Monday, September 05, 2011 11:19:37 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/23/2010
Posts: 868
Location: La Islas Galápagos
While the bubble burst has been prophesied over and over again, it will not occur on itself since due to its illiquidity and inflation hedging makes it more attractive to many people to hold.

Under normal circumstances, house prices may in general hold since people have to live somewhere one way or another.

But under abnormal circumstances, house prices can be pushed down, and when prices start going down, buyers always prefer to wait a little longer to buy cheaper . . .

These are the signs you need to know when to quit real estate – when banks start foreclosure. Banks have neither the strategy nor the motivation to own a repossessed house, and will sell at a discount to get it off their books (and come after the customer for the deficit). When one bank does it, the other banks find themselves in a very unfavourable situation, and respond by selling reposed houses at even juicier and demanding higher deposits for new owners.

And then it becomes just another NSE.

I hope am wrong
A bad day fishing is better than a good day at work
youcan'tstopusnow
#67 Posted : Tuesday, September 06, 2011 10:31:38 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
Woman gets Sh750m for stake in prime city estate. There's a payday if you never saw one http://businessdailyafri...46/-/t0tyj1/-/index.html
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
murchr
#68 Posted : Monday, August 17, 2015 2:43:58 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
I had to revive this to ask a few questions on how foreclosures are handled in Kenya.

1. When a borrower fails to pay off his mortgage, how does the bank go on to recover their money and dispose the property? (Do they set a price or auction to the highest bidder?)

2. How do the new laws hinder the process?
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
wukan
#69 Posted : Monday, May 07, 2018 3:14:20 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,653
Downtown is undergoing some serious change

Quote:

Traders suffered losses on Monday after a Nairobi building at the centre of an ownership dispute was demolished.

The building on Ronald Ngala Street housed about 30 stalls stocked with clothes, shoes and beauty products.

The affected traders blamed the county saying officers should have allowed them to remove their property.

But City Hall Director of Operations Peter Mbaya said inspectorate officers had nothing to do with the demolition.

"Police had a court order to bring the building down," Mbaya said.

Central OCPD Robinson Thuku said they implemented a court order produced by a developer who wants to put up a building at the same spot.

"The case had been in court for almost five years. After winning, the developer acquired an order to demolish the building."

https://www.the-star.co....n-city-building_c1754754
MugundaMan
#70 Posted : Monday, May 07, 2018 3:54:56 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,212
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
Hehehe 9 years on those writing kizungu Mingi articles are still trying to decipher the real estate conundrum. Look here rafikis, there is enough migunda for each and every single Kenyan in this beautiful country. Most if not almost all of you have at least one somewhere. Unless you are an IDP, Chokora or are disabled. Kenya is not Lavington and Runda. Create your own Kileleshwa in the bush. You can all afford those plots I see going in Nanyuki, marareni, malaa, emali, kajiado etc for well under 100k. Ubaya ya wakenya ni kulia tu ngweeeeeeeeeh from dusk to dawn about phantom problems and endless baseless fears. Reminds me of the Jomo joke about someone with land being given a serekali jembe asking "but who will do the digging?" Bure tu. Buy land and develop it rafikis. If you can afford those smart phones I see you with wagging tongues for hours in polojo daily, you surely can afford a measly plot in Malaa on which to slowly build.
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