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Surnames Concept: We got it wrong!
Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2012 Posts: 1,317
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So should we call him Mr Muigai or Baba Kenyatta, and is she Mrs Jomo or Mrs Muigai??
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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kollabo wrote:So should we call him Mr Muigai or Baba Kenyatta, and is she Mrs Jomo or Mrs Muigai?? Where i come from we should call him Mr Muigai and Mrs Muigai. If you call her mrs Kenyatta you imply that she is Jomo's fish If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/25/2007 Posts: 1,574
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Swenani wrote:jguru wrote:Lolest! wrote:Mzungu came, 'civilized' us and left us with new order for everything-including names. Before he came, I understand your name was the name they referred you with at a particular time!
They left us confused, maybe because we didn't quite customise the surname to fit our culture.
Take the example of John Njeru Kimathi. He is John Njeru son of Kimathi. He refers himself as Mr Kimathi.
His wife Kwamboka refers herself as Mrs Kwamboka Njeru. Their daughter Beryl is Beryl Kawira Njeru.
Hence in one family we have Mr. Kimathi, his wife Mrs Njeru and their daughter Miss Njeru. Collectively, the Njerus(not the Njeru's)
See the African confusion? Where I come from, John Njeru Kimathi is Mr. Njeru (Baba Kimathi). The wife is Mrs. Njeru (Mama Kimathi) and the daughter is Miss Njeru. The son is Mr. Kimathi. Mr. Njeru, after he passes his medical exams, will however be Dr. Kimathi. So, on an invitation card, you will invite the Njerus as Dr. Kimathi and Mrs. Njeru. Confused?  We come from the same village or even family then Maybe we do. If the wife to John Njeru Kimathi is a Prof. or Dr. and the husband isn't the invite will read, Mr. and Dr. Njeru or Mr. and Prof. Njeru. Though most men avoid situations where the wife is more 'learned' than they are. I don't know why... Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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This is what happens when you try to translate a phrase directly from one language to another. the person you call John Njeru Kimathi, is actually John Njeru wa-Kimathi....or John Njeru mtu-Kimathi (John Njeru M'Kimathi)....or John Njeru ole-Kimathi..... John Njeru arap-Kimathi The "wa", "mtu", "ole", "arap" etc signify that he belongs to Kimathi. His wife is Kwamboka wa-Njeru and all his children are xxx wa Njeru. Now there is no confusion. But what should happen if John gets his PhD..... and gets promoted to the post of Professor? Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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everyone has their own naming conventions. it does not have to be tracable! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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kollabo wrote:So should we call him Mr Muigai or Baba Kenyatta, and is she Mrs Jomo or Mrs Muigai?? Now that's a complicated one because he changed his name in 2012 to become Uhuru Kenyatta. He dropped the middle name Muigai from his official name.... Want proof? Recall what was printed on the ballot papers. It was what was taken out of his ID. So, he is Mr. Kenyatta and she is Mrs Kenyatta. Incidentally, Uhuru is a Kiswahili word adopted as a name and Kenyatta is a Maasai name (sounds more like "Kinyatta") for a beaded lether belt. Jomo (a kikuyu corruption of Johnstone) must have seen quite far for his son - giving him a generic name that does not belong to any particular tribe... Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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and while on changed names, people must stop calling the former president Emillio. He dropped that name long ago and became simply Mwai Kibaki. I have seen his ID and that's what it reads. Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/9/2011 Posts: 730 Location: Nairobi
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the problem is the slave names we adopted in the guise of christian names, my kids will be Njeru Kimathi, there wont be a peter, john, mohamed in there our goals are best achieved indirectly
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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masukuma wrote:everyone has their own naming conventions. it does not have to be tracable! as BCN aren't you Mr N? Why not Mr C? Or Mr H, assuming you belong to the H mbari(sub-clan)?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Kenneth Stanley Njindo Matiba was actually Matiba son of Njindo!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,567 Location: nairobi
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Hapa wazua kuna mambo
COOP 70,000 ABP 15.20; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 1,982 Location: matano manne
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mukiha wrote:This is what happens when you try to translate a phrase directly from one language to another.
the person you call John Njeru Kimathi, is actually John Njeru wa-Kimathi....or John Njeru mtu-Kimathi (John Njeru M'Kimathi)....or John Njeru ole-Kimathi..... John Njeru arap-Kimathi
The "wa", "mtu", "ole", "arap" etc signify that he belongs to Kimathi.
His wife is Kwamboka wa-Njeru and all his children are xxx wa Njeru.
Now there is no confusion.
But what should happen if John gets his PhD..... and gets promoted to the post of Professor?
@Mukiha, if we follow your logic then it folows that his wife Kwamboka should be called after his father, not husband. This is the confusion that added to our confusion calling wives by their husbands names was not part of our culture,
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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Lolest! wrote:masukuma wrote:everyone has their own naming conventions. it does not have to be tracable! as BCN aren't you Mr N? Why not Mr C? Or Mr H, assuming you belong to the H mbari(sub-clan)? I am Mr. C - Mr. N. is my father! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/2/2012 Posts: 1,134 Location: Nairobi
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Lolest! wrote:Mzungu came, 'civilized' us and left us with new order for everything-including names. Before he came, I understand your name was the name they referred you with at a particular time!
They left us confused, maybe because we didn't quite customise the surname to fit our culture.
Take the example of John Njeru Kimathi. He is John Njeru son of Kimathi. He refers himself as Mr Kimathi.
His wife Kwamboka refers herself as Mrs Kwamboka Njeru. Their daughter Beryl is Beryl Kawira Njeru.
Hence in one family we have Mr. Kimathi, his wife Mrs Njeru and their daughter Miss Njeru. Collectively, the Njerus(not the Njeru's)
See the African confusion? It gets more confusing.... First name is the name a baby is given first. Second name is the name a baby/person is given second and so on Assuming that this fellow was given the name Njeru at birth [for cultural reasons] and then baptised John some time later, then the order of his names is: First name = Njeru Second name = John Family/Father's name = Kimathi Therefore, he should be listing his name as: NJERU JOHN KIMATHI I don't know why Africans put their second name [i.e., baptism name] first. We really got this naming business completely wrong!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/2/2012 Posts: 1,134 Location: Nairobi
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Rahatupu wrote:mukiha wrote:This is what happens when you try to translate a phrase directly from one language to another.
the person you call John Njeru Kimathi, is actually John Njeru wa-Kimathi....or John Njeru mtu-Kimathi (John Njeru M'Kimathi)....or John Njeru ole-Kimathi..... John Njeru arap-Kimathi
The "wa", "mtu", "ole", "arap" etc signify that he belongs to Kimathi.
His wife is Kwamboka wa-Njeru and all his children are xxx wa Njeru.
Now there is no confusion.
But what should happen if John gets his PhD..... and gets promoted to the post of Professor?
@Mukiha, if we follow your logic then it folows that his wife Kwamboka should be called after his father, not husband. This is the confusion that added to our confusion calling wives by their husbands names was not part of our culture, In many [most?] cultures of the world, when a woman gets married she no longer "belongs" to her father; she now "belongs" to her husband. So, @mukiha was right she should be Kwamboka wa-Njeru
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 1,982 Location: matano manne
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chiaroscuro wrote:Rahatupu wrote:mukiha wrote:This is what happens when you try to translate a phrase directly from one language to another.
the person you call John Njeru Kimathi, is actually John Njeru wa-Kimathi....or John Njeru mtu-Kimathi (John Njeru M'Kimathi)....or John Njeru ole-Kimathi..... John Njeru arap-Kimathi
The "wa", "mtu", "ole", "arap" etc signify that he belongs to Kimathi.
His wife is Kwamboka wa-Njeru and all his children are xxx wa Njeru.
Now there is no confusion.
But what should happen if John gets his PhD..... and gets promoted to the post of Professor?
@Mukiha, if we follow your logic then it folows that his wife Kwamboka should be called after his father, not husband. This is the confusion that added to our confusion calling wives by their husbands names was not part of our culture, In many [most?] cultures of the world, when a woman gets married she no longer "belongs" to her father; she now "belongs" to her husband. So, @mukiha was right she should be Kwamboka wa-Njeru . Wrong, in African culture all children were named after their fathers period. Marriage had no effect on names. .....in Mukiha logic, the "wa" "arap" "ole" denoted of
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2015 Posts: 681 Location: Kenya
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Rahatupu wrote:chiaroscuro wrote:Rahatupu wrote:mukiha wrote:This is what happens when you try to translate a phrase directly from one language to another.
the person you call John Njeru Kimathi, is actually John Njeru wa-Kimathi....or John Njeru mtu-Kimathi (John Njeru M'Kimathi)....or John Njeru ole-Kimathi..... John Njeru arap-Kimathi
The "wa", "mtu", "ole", "arap" etc signify that he belongs to Kimathi.
His wife is Kwamboka wa-Njeru and all his children are xxx wa Njeru.
Now there is no confusion.
But what should happen if John gets his PhD..... and gets promoted to the post of Professor?
@Mukiha, if we follow your logic then it folows that his wife Kwamboka should be called after his father, not husband. This is the confusion that added to our confusion calling wives by their husbands names was not part of our culture, In many [most?] cultures of the world, when a woman gets married she no longer "belongs" to her father; she now "belongs" to her husband. So, @mukiha was right she should be Kwamboka wa-Njeru . Wrong, in African culture all children were named after their fathers period. Marriage had no effect on names. .....in Mukiha logic, the "wa" "arap" "ole" denoted of Disagree. Atleast in mt. region, wife's name changed after payment of bride price. Wangù wa Makeri was youngest wife to Makeri wa Mbogo. Assuming this generation had not lost traditions to mzungu.
60% Learning, 30% synthesizing, 10% Debating
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 1,982 Location: matano manne
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Thitifini wrote:Rahatupu wrote:chiaroscuro wrote:Rahatupu wrote:mukiha wrote:This is what happens when you try to translate a phrase directly from one language to another.
the person you call John Njeru Kimathi, is actually John Njeru wa-Kimathi....or John Njeru mtu-Kimathi (John Njeru M'Kimathi)....or John Njeru ole-Kimathi..... John Njeru arap-Kimathi
The "wa", "mtu", "ole", "arap" etc signify that he belongs to Kimathi.
His wife is Kwamboka wa-Njeru and all his children are xxx wa Njeru.
Now there is no confusion.
But what should happen if John gets his PhD..... and gets promoted to the post of Professor?
@Mukiha, if we follow your logic then it folows that his wife Kwamboka should be called after his father, not husband. This is the confusion that added to our confusion calling wives by their husbands names was not part of our culture, In many [most?] cultures of the world, when a woman gets married she no longer "belongs" to her father; she now "belongs" to her husband. So, @mukiha was right she should be Kwamboka wa-Njeru . Wrong, in African culture all children were named after their fathers period. Marriage had no effect on names. .....in Mukiha logic, the "wa" "arap" "ole" denoted of Disagree. Atleast in mt. region, wife's name changed after payment of bride price. Wangù wa Makeri was youngest wife to Makeri wa Mbogo. Assuming this generation had not lost traditions to mzungu. . @Thitifini, if you go back long enough....... before the British corruption, BTW this story is as told by the Brits hence even the assumption and branding her by her husband's name.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/2/2012 Posts: 1,134 Location: Nairobi
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Rahatupu wrote:chiaroscuro wrote:Rahatupu wrote:mukiha wrote:This is what happens when you try to translate a phrase directly from one language to another.
the person you call John Njeru Kimathi, is actually John Njeru wa-Kimathi....or John Njeru mtu-Kimathi (John Njeru M'Kimathi)....or John Njeru ole-Kimathi..... John Njeru arap-Kimathi
The "wa", "mtu", "ole", "arap" etc signify that he belongs to Kimathi.
His wife is Kwamboka wa-Njeru and all his children are xxx wa Njeru.
Now there is no confusion.
But what should happen if John gets his PhD..... and gets promoted to the post of Professor?
@Mukiha, if we follow your logic then it folows that his wife Kwamboka should be called after his father, not husband. This is the confusion that added to our confusion calling wives by their husbands names was not part of our culture, In many [most?] cultures of the world, when a woman gets married she no longer "belongs" to her father; she now "belongs" to her husband. So, @mukiha was right she should be Kwamboka wa-Njeru . Wrong, in African culture all children were named after their fathers period. Marriage had no effect on names. .....in Mukiha logic, the "wa" "arap" "ole" denoted of Which part of Africa?
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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chiaroscuro wrote:Rahatupu wrote:chiaroscuro wrote:Rahatupu wrote:mukiha wrote:This is what happens when you try to translate a phrase directly from one language to another.
the person you call John Njeru Kimathi, is actually John Njeru wa-Kimathi....or John Njeru mtu-Kimathi (John Njeru M'Kimathi)....or John Njeru ole-Kimathi..... John Njeru arap-Kimathi
The "wa", "mtu", "ole", "arap" etc signify that he belongs to Kimathi.
His wife is Kwamboka wa-Njeru and all his children are xxx wa Njeru.
Now there is no confusion.
But what should happen if John gets his PhD..... and gets promoted to the post of Professor?
@Mukiha, if we follow your logic then it folows that his wife Kwamboka should be called after his father, not husband. This is the confusion that added to our confusion calling wives by their husbands names was not part of our culture, In many [most?] cultures of the world, when a woman gets married she no longer "belongs" to her father; she now "belongs" to her husband. So, @mukiha was right she should be Kwamboka wa-Njeru . Wrong, in African culture all children were named after their fathers period. Marriage had no effect on names. .....in Mukiha logic, the "wa" "arap" "ole" denoted of Which part of Africa? 0.5695° N, 34.5584° E If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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