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"Honest" matatu makanga
Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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masukuma wrote:Here is something you should all know - while it's GOOD for him to send the money back - yeye sio Karari yako! sio lazima atume! sio kazi yake. Ulituma kimakosa kwa nini? it's not theft! it's your carelessness! you drop your money in my pocket and start complaining when I don't return it to you? You are supposed to be thankful but not feel entitled to me returning it.  nani alikuzaa wewe? So unasema tukituma pesa by mistake, we steal/hack recepients phone to return our money? If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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hamburglar wrote: Different scenario. The reason why this guy was rewarded is because he was unemployed and living in a motel 6. They were not so much rewarding him for his honesty per say, they raised the money mostly to help him get into an apartment somewhere. Am sure if this were some regular guy doing well in life and living somewhere in the suburbs, this deed would not had made headlines as it did for this guy. Because it would have been expected of him to return the money order and that would have been the end of the story.
The Americans were helping a guy that was down on his luck, not neccessarily because he had been honest. That's how i see it. They were being empathetic about the guy's situation, the Kenyan makanga on the other hand was rewarded primarily because he did something that is out of the norm for majority of Kenyans. Being honest. That's why it's all over the news because it's not expected in this country. Americans are very empathetic towards situations like homelessness and they will help a family like this one whenever they have a chance to.
Similar scenario! A Nairobi makanga will most likely be making 30K a month. Hardly the money to afford a good life but is still better than being jobless. Even in Kenya, if an uptown fellow came upon such money, it would not have made it to the news. And it's honest makanga not "honest". But I agree, we are one very dishonest nation.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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2012 wrote: Clearly, this government is the mirror of its citizens so maybe we should stop throwing stones... and work hard for our turns My thoughts exactly! If I become somebody big in a public entity and don't steal or hire people from my area(or relatives) people will be saying things like "Hata hakuwahi jisaidia hiyo miaka yote. Angalia wenzake vile wameendelea" "Alitusaidiaje vile alikuwa mkubwa huko? Nilitaka anipatie kazi akakataa akaniambia niapply"
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,579
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masukuma wrote:Here is something you should all know - while it's GOOD for him to send the money back - yeye sio Karari yako! sio lazima atume! sio kazi yake. Ulituma kimakosa kwa nini? it's not theft! it's your carelessness! you drop your money in my pocket and start complaining when I don't return it to you? You are supposed to be thankful but not feel entitled to me returning it. AM 100% sure its now THE LAW that you should return in Kenya, a woman was jailed recently for not returning, and that set a good PRECEDENT on this issue, even what you pick, you should take to the police station, it is STEALING, its theft pure and simple and very poor morals, do we need LAWS to FORCE people to do the right thing? Do we need to "police" people so that they can return what is not theirs, as humburgler is claiming, this is the root of our problems, how can we eliminate this kind of thinking and save the country billions and billions for policing people which we can use to build all houses, buy food etc and live in plenty? Ras Kienyeji Man
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Much Know wrote:masukuma wrote:Here is something you should all know - while it's GOOD for him to send the money back - yeye sio Karari yako! sio lazima atume! sio kazi yake. Ulituma kimakosa kwa nini? it's not theft! it's your carelessness! you drop your money in my pocket and start complaining when I don't return it to you? You are supposed to be thankful but not feel entitled to me returning it. AM 100% sure its now THE LAW that you should return in Kenya, a woman was jailed recently for not returning, and that set a good PRECEDENT on this issue, even what you pick, you should take to the police station, it is STEALING, its theft pure and simple and very poor morals, do we need LAWS to FORCE people to do the right thing? Do we need to "police" people so that they can return what is not theirs, as humburgler is claiming, this is the root of our problems, how can we eliminate this kind of thinking and save the country billions and billions for policing people which we can use to build all houses, buy food etc and live in plenty? Was she jailed for 'not returning' or for 'spending it'? I am not required to raise a finger towards your goodwill! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,579
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masukuma wrote:Much Know wrote:masukuma wrote:Here is something you should all know - while it's GOOD for him to send the money back - yeye sio Karari yako! sio lazima atume! sio kazi yake. Ulituma kimakosa kwa nini? it's not theft! it's your carelessness! you drop your money in my pocket and start complaining when I don't return it to you? You are supposed to be thankful but not feel entitled to me returning it. AM 100% sure its now THE LAW that you should return in Kenya, a woman was jailed recently for not returning, and that set a good PRECEDENT on this issue, even what you pick, you should take to the police station, it is STEALING, its theft pure and simple and very poor morals, do we need LAWS to FORCE people to do the right thing? Do we need to "police" people so that they can return what is not theirs, as humburgler is claiming, this is the root of our problems, how can we eliminate this kind of thinking and save the country billions and billions for policing people which we can use to build all houses, buy food etc and live in plenty? Was she jailed for 'not returning' or for 'spending it'? I am not required to raise a finger towards your goodwill! VALUES, its right to question, what drives them? We could pursue all sorts of logical avenues to deal with such, even create 'a finders keepers law', but there is non for sure, not unless a judge declares it yours, i guess such laws may have existed in several ancient savage civilizations, some sort of 'legal corruption' but they definitely collapsed, and i can guarantee you such a law will be chaotic, stealing is not this complicated, even with phone being "technology" does not create a new scenario, same old logic about whats not yours, you can make a "using mpesa is illegal but keeping and refusing to return is ok kinda law" however, i know it is impossible to distinguish your mpesa, from another persons mpesa in terms of spending, if i have 5k in my mpesa, i inadvertently receive 1k, have a Nyang Nyongo 3k lunch, have i spent your money yet or when exactly do i begin spending it, if i use all of it and remain with zero, and ten minutes later, i receive 10k from a friend, is your 1k inside this ten k or am i too late and have spent your money? What if i refund you at this point? she was jailed for being a thief and staling money which she knows is not hers by not refunding it, stealing is stealing, calling safaricom customer service is free, not unless you argue you are "saving energy and saliva" lakini watu watajua hiyo ni ukora tu. Ras Kienyeji Man
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,579
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masukuma wrote:Much Know wrote:masukuma wrote:Here is something you should all know - while it's GOOD for him to send the money back - yeye sio Karari yako! sio lazima atume! sio kazi yake. Ulituma kimakosa kwa nini? it's not theft! it's your carelessness! you drop your money in my pocket and start complaining when I don't return it to you? You are supposed to be thankful but not feel entitled to me returning it. AM 100% sure its now THE LAW that you should return in Kenya, a woman was jailed recently for not returning, and that set a good PRECEDENT on this issue, even what you pick, you should take to the police station, it is STEALING, its theft pure and simple and very poor morals, do we need LAWS to FORCE people to do the right thing? Do we need to "police" people so that they can return what is not theirs, as humburgler is claiming, this is the root of our problems, how can we eliminate this kind of thinking and save the country billions and billions for policing people which we can use to build all houses, buy food etc and live in plenty? Was she jailed for 'not returning' or for 'spending it'? I am not required to raise a finger towards your goodwill! I can confidently say you can blame the hogwash for writing she was jailed for "using"  , wana shida ya lugha na kuelewa mambo saa zingine kama sisi tu. Ras Kienyeji Man
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,579
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With bitcoin however, which is some sort of modification of "mpesa wallets" and ledgers, you are allowed to "steal", because you have no way of tracing the sender, i opened a bitcoin wallet 5 years ago but did not use it, i have a feeling there are bitcoins in it, because many bitcoin thieves would stash stolen coins in "stray accounts', i still have my key, if i find bitcoins inside, i donno what to do, maybe send to charity, this is just one of the problems with bitcoins, its a good money system for thieves and thugs Ras Kienyeji Man
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Much Know wrote:masukuma wrote:Much Know wrote:masukuma wrote:Here is something you should all know - while it's GOOD for him to send the money back - yeye sio Karari yako! sio lazima atume! sio kazi yake. Ulituma kimakosa kwa nini? it's not theft! it's your carelessness! you drop your money in my pocket and start complaining when I don't return it to you? You are supposed to be thankful but not feel entitled to me returning it. AM 100% sure its now THE LAW that you should return in Kenya, a woman was jailed recently for not returning, and that set a good PRECEDENT on this issue, even what you pick, you should take to the police station, it is STEALING, its theft pure and simple and very poor morals, do we need LAWS to FORCE people to do the right thing? Do we need to "police" people so that they can return what is not theirs, as humburgler is claiming, this is the root of our problems, how can we eliminate this kind of thinking and save the country billions and billions for policing people which we can use to build all houses, buy food etc and live in plenty? Was she jailed for 'not returning' or for 'spending it'? I am not required to raise a finger towards your goodwill! VALUES, its right to question, what drives them? We could pursue all sorts of logical avenues to deal with such, even create 'a finders keepers law', but there is non for sure, not unless a judge declares it yours, i guess such laws may have existed in several ancient savage civilizations, some sort of 'legal corruption' but they definitely collapsed, and i can guarantee you such a law will be chaotic, stealing is not this complicated, even with phone being "technology" does not create a new scenario, same old logic about whats not yours, you can make a "using mpesa is illegal but keeping and refusing to return is ok kinda law" however, i know it is impossible to distinguish your mpesa, from another persons mpesa in terms of spending, if i have 5k in my mpesa, i inadvertently receive 1k, have a Nyang Nyongo 3k lunch, have i spent your money yet or when exactly do i begin spending it, if i use all of it and remain with zero, and ten minutes later, i receive 10k from a friend, is your 1k inside this ten k or am i too late and have spent your money? What if i refund you at this point? she was jailed for being a thief and staling money which she knows is not hers by not refunding it, stealing is stealing, calling safaricom customer service is free, not unless you argue you are "saving energy and saliva" lakini watu watajua hiyo ni ukora tu. This is where we africans go wrong and still wonder why we are behind... we are just lazy! we don't care about documenting these so called values and codifying them into LAWS! Laws don't have to be just - they just need to be laws! once "it is written" - it's final until it's unwritten. In Nairobi there is still a by-law that prohibits "rainwater harvesting" - change it... don't be lazy and skirt around it. Law making is work - give that work to people who can make laws not charlatans. anyway - I digress... back to values - values mean nothing and are not binding! if you want consistent application of something - get a law in place. I don't have to return MPESA money to you much in the same way I have to return a ball that has been kicked into my compound. Wewe - kuja uchukuwe. I don't have to pick your call after you call me... my phone is for my convenience not yours. She confessed to it all... she did not deny anything. ukinitumia pesa halafu ujaribu kunipigia nikatae kuchukuwa? I don't pick calls from strange numbers during my meditation time. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,579
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masukuma wrote:Much Know wrote:masukuma wrote:Much Know wrote:masukuma wrote:Here is something you should all know - while it's GOOD for him to send the money back - yeye sio Karari yako! sio lazima atume! sio kazi yake. Ulituma kimakosa kwa nini? it's not theft! it's your carelessness! you drop your money in my pocket and start complaining when I don't return it to you? You are supposed to be thankful but not feel entitled to me returning it. AM 100% sure its now THE LAW that you should return in Kenya, a woman was jailed recently for not returning, and that set a good PRECEDENT on this issue, even what you pick, you should take to the police station, it is STEALING, its theft pure and simple and very poor morals, do we need LAWS to FORCE people to do the right thing? Do we need to "police" people so that they can return what is not theirs, as humburgler is claiming, this is the root of our problems, how can we eliminate this kind of thinking and save the country billions and billions for policing people which we can use to build all houses, buy food etc and live in plenty? Was she jailed for 'not returning' or for 'spending it'? I am not required to raise a finger towards your goodwill! VALUES, its right to question, what drives them? We could pursue all sorts of logical avenues to deal with such, even create 'a finders keepers law', but there is non for sure, not unless a judge declares it yours, i guess such laws may have existed in several ancient savage civilizations, some sort of 'legal corruption' but they definitely collapsed, and i can guarantee you such a law will be chaotic, stealing is not this complicated, even with phone being "technology" does not create a new scenario, same old logic about whats not yours, you can make a "using mpesa is illegal but keeping and refusing to return is ok kinda law" however, i know it is impossible to distinguish your mpesa, from another persons mpesa in terms of spending, if i have 5k in my mpesa, i inadvertently receive 1k, have a Nyang Nyongo 3k lunch, have i spent your money yet or when exactly do i begin spending it, if i use all of it and remain with zero, and ten minutes later, i receive 10k from a friend, is your 1k inside this ten k or am i too late and have spent your money? What if i refund you at this point? she was jailed for being a thief and staling money which she knows is not hers by not refunding it, stealing is stealing, calling safaricom customer service is free, not unless you argue you are "saving energy and saliva" lakini watu watajua hiyo ni ukora tu. This is where we africans go wrong and still wonder why we are behind... we are just lazy! we don't care about documenting these so called values and codifying them into LAWS! Laws don't have to be just - they just need to be laws! once "it is written" - it's final until it's unwritten. In Nairobi there is still a by-law that prohibits "rainwater harvesting" - change it... don't be lazy and skirt around it. Law making is work - give that work to people who can make laws not charlatans. anyway - I digress... back to values - values mean nothing and are not binding! if you want consistent application of something - get a law in place. I don't have to return MPESA money to you much in the same way I have to return a ball that has been kicked into my compound. Wewe - kuja uchukuwe. I don't have to pick your call after you call me... my phone is for my convenience not yours. She confessed to it all... she did not deny anything. ukinitumia pesa halafu ujaribu kunipigia nikatae kuchukuwa? I don't pick calls from strange numbers during my meditation time. Agreed, everybody is wondering how to deal with the issue of our law dept. even Uhuru was begging for laws the other day, hapa ni failure kabisa, because they wait for wazungus instructions with their kingoso wigs, even in mpesa where Kenyans have been leading the way, such a simple issue as law on sending money has taken them over ten years, Kenya will have to rebuild its whole law afresh from scratch! Ras Kienyeji Man
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