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Low End Housing: High Risk, High Return
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,497 Location: nairobi
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Swenani wrote:Fullykenyan wrote:Swenani wrote:Fullykenyan wrote:obiero wrote:winmak wrote:obiero wrote:kayhara wrote:What's the definition of low class? I just met a Mombasa guy with 28 Swahili houses, he tells me each cost him an average of 3.5 million to build including a borehole for each. so that's about 98 million. each house has 10 small one bedroom going for 8,000 each including water, so each house income per month is ksh. 80,000/- all 28 houses is ksh. 2,240,000 assuming he built them all in one year? (he built over 5 years) it will take him only 3.5 years to recoup his investments, that's assuming the rent is constant. well.... Low end refers to the target market not the landlord.. There are 4 different seven storied bedsitter units in Pipeline with 10 houses per floor owned by the immediate former Governor that earn him an average of KES 2,380,000 monthly from rent of KES 8,500 per flat Wow, now I didn't know he had interests in such.. Now @Obiero, I am prospecting, I want an 8th in areas of Kasarani or such like neighborhoods to build a rental flat in the next 3 years. How much do the high traffic areas go for? and would you advice me to go for this area or are there other lucrative areas? (I had been adviced on Kinoo , Gachie... but I fear those areas) @winmak last I checked, from Sunton, Clayworks, Seasons going to main centre at Kasarani you will need KES 8,500,000 for a plain 1/8 acre. Mwiki headed down to Kangundo road budget for KES 3,500,000 to KES 6,000,000 Kitengela there is no land for sale from 1st to 3rd row all the way upto Yukos. Fourth row is available at KES 5,500,000, but being a victim of an intricate land fraud in the county dating back to 2009, I will not lead anyone to invest in the area. Im still in court! These prices are equivalent to the price of land in Germany, where you have all the roads tarmacked, electricity and water on site. Something is wrong in kenya. You can't compare Kenya with a shithole country in Europe I have realised that albeit too late . @Swenani, do you know of anyoned selling land in Masaku? No, but if you can consider my unsolicited advice and if you are buying for long term, my opinion is that you consider some of these counties; Isiolo(Isiolo town), Uasin Gishu(Eldoret town),Lamu(Lamu Town) Busia(Busia Town) and Bungoma(Bungoma and/or Malaba town). These towns will not be the same in the next 10-15 years especially if SGR and lapset projects are realized True. Those towns are to be watched. Suswa must also not be left out of the prospective buy areas. Only problem is that you may end up on the tectonic plate fault line, nyumba ikatwe na Mungu katikati.. Worst possible nightmare of any real estate investor HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,497 Location: nairobi
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Swenani wrote:Fullykenyan wrote:Swenani wrote:Fullykenyan wrote:obiero wrote:winmak wrote:obiero wrote:kayhara wrote:What's the definition of low class? I just met a Mombasa guy with 28 Swahili houses, he tells me each cost him an average of 3.5 million to build including a borehole for each. so that's about 98 million. each house has 10 small one bedroom going for 8,000 each including water, so each house income per month is ksh. 80,000/- all 28 houses is ksh. 2,240,000 assuming he built them all in one year? (he built over 5 years) it will take him only 3.5 years to recoup his investments, that's assuming the rent is constant. well.... Low end refers to the target market not the landlord.. There are 4 different seven storied bedsitter units in Pipeline with 10 houses per floor owned by the immediate former Governor that earn him an average of KES 2,380,000 monthly from rent of KES 8,500 per flat Wow, now I didn't know he had interests in such.. Now @Obiero, I am prospecting, I want an 8th in areas of Kasarani or such like neighborhoods to build a rental flat in the next 3 years. How much do the high traffic areas go for? and would you advice me to go for this area or are there other lucrative areas? (I had been adviced on Kinoo , Gachie... but I fear those areas) @winmak last I checked, from Sunton, Clayworks, Seasons going to main centre at Kasarani you will need KES 8,500,000 for a plain 1/8 acre. Mwiki headed down to Kangundo road budget for KES 3,500,000 to KES 6,000,000 Kitengela there is no land for sale from 1st to 3rd row all the way upto Yukos. Fourth row is available at KES 5,500,000, but being a victim of an intricate land fraud in the county dating back to 2009, I will not lead anyone to invest in the area. Im still in court! These prices are equivalent to the price of land in Germany, where you have all the roads tarmacked, electricity and water on site. Something is wrong in kenya. You can't compare Kenya with a shithole country in Europe I have realised that albeit too late . @Swenani, do you know of anyoned selling land in Masaku? No, but if you can consider my unsolicited advice and if you are buying for long term, my opinion is that you consider some of these counties; Isiolo(Isiolo town), Uasin Gishu(Eldoret town),Lamu(Lamu Town) Busia(Busia Town) and Bungoma(Bungoma and/or Malaba town). These towns will not be the same in the next 10-15 years especially if SGR and lapset projects are realized True. Those towns are to be watched. Suswa must also not be left out of the prospective buy areas. Only problem is that you may end up on the tectonic plate fault line, nyumba ikatwe na Mungu katikati.. Worst possible nightmare of any real estate investor HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,497 Location: nairobi
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Points to note: 1. Do not start your project without all approvals in hand 2. Bulk purchase of building materials will save you big time, though you will need a 'trusted' foreman to control stock 3. The head fundi shall become closer than a friend during construction. You have to trust that person and change them very early incase of any doubt in their ability 4. Accounting for all supplies will have to be religious, otherwise you may start to believe that someone is stealing, unfounded 5. Labor costs will scare you stiff, but good labor has never been cheap. Foreman current rates should average daily at KES 1,500; fundi KES 1,000 and laborers at KES 450 6. Try to always challenge the thought pattern of your project team. Obviously you will not over-ride the professionals, but learn to question their suggestions based on logic 7. Finishing could actually finish you due to the costs, hence you have to be very hands-on at the stated stage 8. Labor cost on tile work should be based on square meters and the current going rate is not more than KES 250/sqm 9. If site doesn't have water or electricity connections, it is important to start chasing for the same as work progresses on site, else you may end up with a ready unit that has no utilities 10. When transporting expensive/fragile items such as steel/tiles, better be ready to pay professional couriers for weight exceeding 2tonnes. Don't attempt to use normal transporters unless you are ready to suffer losses; and insure the stock-in-transit, if necessary HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,497 Location: nairobi
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A journey of a thousand miles starts with one step.. HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,497 Location: nairobi
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Chaka wrote:Itatosea ikisimamiswa. .I stand collected though.. hardwood wrote:Sofa set itatosea hiyo mlango kweli? Hehe. Nugus HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Member Joined: 7/27/2014 Posts: 560 Location: Eastlando
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Swenani wrote:Fullykenyan wrote:Swenani wrote:Fullykenyan wrote:obiero wrote:winmak wrote:obiero wrote:kayhara wrote:What's the definition of low class? I just met a Mombasa guy with 28 Swahili houses, he tells me each cost him an average of 3.5 million to build including a borehole for each. so that's about 98 million. each house has 10 small one bedroom going for 8,000 each including water, so each house income per month is ksh. 80,000/- all 28 houses is ksh. 2,240,000 assuming he built them all in one year? (he built over 5 years) it will take him only 3.5 years to recoup his investments, that's assuming the rent is constant. well.... Low end refers to the target market not the landlord.. There are 4 different seven storied bedsitter units in Pipeline with 10 houses per floor owned by the immediate former Governor that earn him an average of KES 2,380,000 monthly from rent of KES 8,500 per flat Wow, now I didn't know he had interests in such.. Now @Obiero, I am prospecting, I want an 8th in areas of Kasarani or such like neighborhoods to build a rental flat in the next 3 years. How much do the high traffic areas go for? and would you advice me to go for this area or are there other lucrative areas? (I had been adviced on Kinoo , Gachie... but I fear those areas) @winmak last I checked, from Sunton, Clayworks, Seasons going to main centre at Kasarani you will need KES 8,500,000 for a plain 1/8 acre. Mwiki headed down to Kangundo road budget for KES 3,500,000 to KES 6,000,000 Kitengela there is no land for sale from 1st to 3rd row all the way upto Yukos. Fourth row is available at KES 5,500,000, but being a victim of an intricate land fraud in the county dating back to 2009, I will not lead anyone to invest in the area. Im still in court! These prices are equivalent to the price of land in Germany, where you have all the roads tarmacked, electricity and water on site. Something is wrong in kenya. You can't compare Kenya with a shithole country in Europe I have realised that albeit too late . @Swenani, do you know of anyoned selling land in Masaku? No, but if you can consider my unsolicited advice and if you are buying for long term, my opinion is that you consider some of these counties; Isiolo(Isiolo town), Uasin Gishu(Eldoret town),Lamu(Lamu Town) Busia(Busia Town) and Bungoma(Bungoma and/or Malaba town). These towns will not be the same in the next 10-15 years especially if SGR and lapset projects are realized Thanks Swenani
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,497 Location: nairobi
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Habari ndio hii https://www.the-star.co....-to-sh3-million_c1747121 HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,497 Location: nairobi
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A journey of a thousand miles starts with one step.. It is finished The end.. HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2007 Posts: 53
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👏👏👏 impressive and congratulations
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,497 Location: nairobi
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dsktop wrote:👏👏👏 impressive and congratulations Asante. Happy too with the outcome.. Took three years but the journey was worth every step.. Completed only one block out of the plan for three, but I doubt whether I have appetite for the extra four storied blocks.. I'm heading back to the securities exchange HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/15/2010 Posts: 454 Location: Nairobi
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[quote=obiero]Habari ndio hii https://www.the-star.co....to-sh3-million_c1747121[/quote] Why Can't the Gaarment focus on Big Three; Health, Food Security and Job creation. The Govt should focus on Infrastructural development, for example, good roads, Reliable power, Water supply, working sewerage system, security etc Instead of HOUSING,which can be done by individual investors. ....He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion..
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,497 Location: nairobi
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tinker wrote:Why Can't the Gaarment focus on Big Three; Health, Food Security and Job creation. The Govt should focus on Infrastructural development, for example, good roads, Reliable power, Water supply, working sewerage system, security etc Instead of HOUSING,which can be done by individual investors. That's true but the housing deficit is way too wide to be bridged by the private sector HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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There is a question that no one is yet talking about. What is the likely effect of injecting so many extra housing units into a struggling real estate sector? Don't get me wrong, I am not against the idea. But we are seeing a lot of companies struggling to offload houses especially on the upper middle and upper class segments. And now Uhuru is about to take the middle and lower middle class off the table too. Could this finally burst the speculation buble that so many have spoken about? "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,497 Location: nairobi
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Wakanyugi wrote:There is a question that no one is yet talking about. What is the likely effect of injecting so many extra housing units into a struggling real estate sector? Don't get me wrong, I am not against the idea. But we are seeing a lot of companies struggling to offload houses especially on the upper middle and upper class segments. And now Uhuru is about to take the middle and lower middle class off the table too. Could this finally burst the speculation buble that so many have spoken about? @Wakanyugi the demand at the low end is insatiable at the moment.. Even the government will struggle to bridge the deficit HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/13/2015 Posts: 1,587
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obiero wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:There is a question that no one is yet talking about. What is the likely effect of injecting so many extra housing units into a struggling real estate sector? Don't get me wrong, I am not against the idea. But we are seeing a lot of companies struggling to offload houses especially on the upper middle and upper class segments. And now Uhuru is about to take the middle and lower middle class off the table too. Could this finally burst the speculation buble that so many have spoken about? @Wakanyugi the demand at the low end is insatiable at the moment.. Even the government will struggle to bridge the deficit @Obiero, I don't get it if the demand is there why did you stop your construction(congrats by the way good stuff)? Can the lower end afford your estimated rent for you to recoup your costs? Lower end is in need of social housing. From the documentation GoK is building the social housing in Kibera, Kiambiu etc while private sector will cater for the emerging middle class through PPP. Some of the projects look like the ongoing civil servant housing scheme lumped in for PR purposes. GoK has already done these initiatives before with little impact on the market e.g Umoja, Jericho, Dandora. The impact on real estate will only be short term for the benefit of middle class. Most of government social housing projects even in the US, UK end up being crime-infested, dilapidated structures or high-rise slums. They are segregated in terms of income concentrating poverty in an area. Politicians with an eye on next elections don't give much thought to these projects and the effects are felt a generation away(like the projects in US). A mixed income approach would have been more ideal something close to what Tatu city is trying to achieve.
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/26/2008 Posts: 380
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obiero wrote: Asante. Happy too with the outcome.. Took three years but the journey was worth every step.. Completed only one block out of the plan for three, but I doubt whether I have appetite for the extra four storied blocks.. I'm heading back to the securities exchange
Congratulations!! Do share some photos of the finished product if you will.. Once the money starts rolling in, dont be surprised to do the other blocks... How did the total spend compare with your initial estimates?
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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wukan wrote:obiero wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:There is a question that no one is yet talking about. What is the likely effect of injecting so many extra housing units into a struggling real estate sector? Don't get me wrong, I am not against the idea. But we are seeing a lot of companies struggling to offload houses especially on the upper middle and upper class segments. And now Uhuru is about to take the middle and lower middle class off the table too. Could this finally burst the speculation buble that so many have spoken about? @Wakanyugi the demand at the low end is insatiable at the moment.. Even the government will struggle to bridge the deficit @Obiero, I don't get it if the demand is there why did you stop your construction(congrats by the way good stuff)? Can the lower end afford your estimated rent for you to recoup your costs? Lower end is in need of social housing. From the documentation GoK is building the social housing in Kibera, Kiambiu etc while private sector will cater for the emerging middle class through PPP. Some of the projects look like the ongoing civil servant housing scheme lumped in for PR purposes. GoK has already done these initiatives before with little impact on the market e.g Umoja, Jericho, Dandora. The impact on real estate will only be short term for the benefit of middle class. Most of government social housing projects even in the US, UK end up being crime-infested, dilapidated structures or high-rise slums. They are segregated in terms of income concentrating poverty in an area. Politicians with an eye on next elections don't give much thought to these projects and the effects are felt a generation away(like the projects in US). A mixed income approach would have been more ideal something close to what Tatu city is trying to achieve. Good points. But the effect of the projects you cite was not negligible. Initially touted as housing for the poor - they ended up benefiting the middle class. The real estate sector went through a depressed period in the late 90's (as did the wider economy of course). I suspect the coming on stream of massive housing stock in the 80's/90's; Dadora, Umoja, Nyayo Highrise (to an extent Buru) contributed to this state of affairs. I have no evidence though. Finally considering that 600,000 is still too high for the majority of our people to afford, should we relay tout this as a solution to the housing problem? "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,497 Location: nairobi
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wukan wrote:obiero wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:There is a question that no one is yet talking about. What is the likely effect of injecting so many extra housing units into a struggling real estate sector? Don't get me wrong, I am not against the idea. But we are seeing a lot of companies struggling to offload houses especially on the upper middle and upper class segments. And now Uhuru is about to take the middle and lower middle class off the table too. Could this finally burst the speculation buble that so many have spoken about? @Wakanyugi the demand at the low end is insatiable at the moment.. Even the government will struggle to bridge the deficit @Obiero, I don't get it if the demand is there why did you stop your construction(congrats by the way good stuff)? Can the lower end afford your estimated rent for you to recoup your costs? Lower end is in need of social housing. From the documentation GoK is building the social housing in Kibera, Kiambiu etc while private sector will cater for the emerging middle class through PPP. Some of the projects look like the ongoing civil servant housing scheme lumped in for PR purposes. GoK has already done these initiatives before with little impact on the market e.g Umoja, Jericho, Dandora. The impact on real estate will only be short term for the benefit of middle class. Most of government social housing projects even in the US, UK end up being crime-infested, dilapidated structures or high-rise slums. They are segregated in terms of income concentrating poverty in an area. Politicians with an eye on next elections don't give much thought to these projects and the effects are felt a generation away(like the projects in US). A mixed income approach would have been more ideal something close to what Tatu city is trying to achieve. Demand is there and I have already let out the first units.. Choosing to not effect the remaining two blocks was as a result of owners equity in the project. I do not want it to be tied on debt at all, noting that the KES 6,150,000 spent so far, was all cash HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,236 Location: Vacuum
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Wakanyugi wrote:wukan wrote:obiero wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:There is a question that no one is yet talking about. What is the likely effect of injecting so many extra housing units into a struggling real estate sector? Don't get me wrong, I am not against the idea. But we are seeing a lot of companies struggling to offload houses especially on the upper middle and upper class segments. And now Uhuru is about to take the middle and lower middle class off the table too. Could this finally burst the speculation buble that so many have spoken about? @Wakanyugi the demand at the low end is insatiable at the moment.. Even the government will struggle to bridge the deficit @Obiero, I don't get it if the demand is there why did you stop your construction(congrats by the way good stuff)? Can the lower end afford your estimated rent for you to recoup your costs? Lower end is in need of social housing. From the documentation GoK is building the social housing in Kibera, Kiambiu etc while private sector will cater for the emerging middle class through PPP. Some of the projects look like the ongoing civil servant housing scheme lumped in for PR purposes. GoK has already done these initiatives before with little impact on the market e.g Umoja, Jericho, Dandora. The impact on real estate will only be short term for the benefit of middle class. Most of government social housing projects even in the US, UK end up being crime-infested, dilapidated structures or high-rise slums. They are segregated in terms of income concentrating poverty in an area. Politicians with an eye on next elections don't give much thought to these projects and the effects are felt a generation away(like the projects in US). A mixed income approach would have been more ideal something close to what Tatu city is trying to achieve. Good points. But the effect of the projects you cite was not negligible. Initially touted as housing for the poor - they ended up benefiting the middle class. The real estate sector went through a depressed period in the late 90's (as did the wider economy of course). I suspect the coming on stream of massive housing stock in the 80's/90's; Dadora, Umoja, Nyayo Highrise (to an extent Buru) contributed to this state of affairs. I have no evidence though. Finally considering that 600,000 is still too high for the majority of our people to afford, should we relay tout this as a solution to the housing problem? Yes, A 600K purchased under the TPA for 25 years with an interest rate of 5% is aprox 4K every month while a 3M under TPA for 25 years is less than 18K every month If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,497 Location: nairobi
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Wakanyugi wrote:wukan wrote:obiero wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:There is a question that no one is yet talking about. What is the likely effect of injecting so many extra housing units into a struggling real estate sector? Don't get me wrong, I am not against the idea. But we are seeing a lot of companies struggling to offload houses especially on the upper middle and upper class segments. And now Uhuru is about to take the middle and lower middle class off the table too. Could this finally burst the speculation buble that so many have spoken about? @Wakanyugi the demand at the low end is insatiable at the moment.. Even the government will struggle to bridge the deficit @Obiero, I don't get it if the demand is there why did you stop your construction(congrats by the way good stuff)? Can the lower end afford your estimated rent for you to recoup your costs? Lower end is in need of social housing. From the documentation GoK is building the social housing in Kibera, Kiambiu etc while private sector will cater for the emerging middle class through PPP. Some of the projects look like the ongoing civil servant housing scheme lumped in for PR purposes. GoK has already done these initiatives before with little impact on the market e.g Umoja, Jericho, Dandora. The impact on real estate will only be short term for the benefit of middle class. Most of government social housing projects even in the US, UK end up being crime-infested, dilapidated structures or high-rise slums. They are segregated in terms of income concentrating poverty in an area. Politicians with an eye on next elections don't give much thought to these projects and the effects are felt a generation away(like the projects in US). A mixed income approach would have been more ideal something close to what Tatu city is trying to achieve. Good points. But the effect of the projects you cite was not negligible. Initially touted as housing for the poor - they ended up benefiting the middle class. The real estate sector went through a depressed period in the late 90's (as did the wider economy of course). I suspect the coming on stream of massive housing stock in the 80's/90's; Dadora, Umoja, Nyayo Highrise (to an extent Buru) contributed to this state of affairs. I have no evidence though. Finally considering that 600,000 is still too high for the majority of our people to afford, should we relay tout this as a solution to the housing problem? @wakanyugi indeed these projects have an impact even to this day! Eastlands was built around the stated estates.. In my thinking, the proposal by GoK to have a TPA scheme similar to the Nyayo Estate model is proper. Citizens will be able to pay 'rent' to the GoK real estate entity with a view to eventually owning the property, rather than throwing cash away to a landlord HF 30,000 ABP 3.49; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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