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Surnames Concept: We got it wrong!
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 14,213 Location: nairobi
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Hapa wazua kuna mambo
KQ ABP 4.26
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 1,982 Location: matano manne
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mukiha wrote:This is what happens when you try to translate a phrase directly from one language to another.
the person you call John Njeru Kimathi, is actually John Njeru wa-Kimathi....or John Njeru mtu-Kimathi (John Njeru M'Kimathi)....or John Njeru ole-Kimathi..... John Njeru arap-Kimathi
The "wa", "mtu", "ole", "arap" etc signify that he belongs to Kimathi.
His wife is Kwamboka wa-Njeru and all his children are xxx wa Njeru.
Now there is no confusion.
But what should happen if John gets his PhD..... and gets promoted to the post of Professor?
@Mukiha, if we follow your logic then it folows that his wife Kwamboka should be called after his father, not husband. This is the confusion that added to our confusion calling wives by their husbands names was not part of our culture,
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Lolest! wrote:masukuma wrote:everyone has their own naming conventions. it does not have to be tracable! as BCN aren't you Mr N? Why not Mr C? Or Mr H, assuming you belong to the H mbari(sub-clan)? I am Mr. C - Mr. N. is my father! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/2/2012 Posts: 1,134 Location: Nairobi
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Lolest! wrote:Mzungu came, 'civilized' us and left us with new order for everything-including names. Before he came, I understand your name was the name they referred you with at a particular time!
They left us confused, maybe because we didn't quite customise the surname to fit our culture.
Take the example of John Njeru Kimathi. He is John Njeru son of Kimathi. He refers himself as Mr Kimathi.
His wife Kwamboka refers herself as Mrs Kwamboka Njeru. Their daughter Beryl is Beryl Kawira Njeru.
Hence in one family we have Mr. Kimathi, his wife Mrs Njeru and their daughter Miss Njeru. Collectively, the Njerus(not the Njeru's)
See the African confusion? It gets more confusing.... First name is the name a baby is given first. Second name is the name a baby/person is given second and so on Assuming that this fellow was given the name Njeru at birth [for cultural reasons] and then baptised John some time later, then the order of his names is: First name = Njeru Second name = John Family/Father's name = Kimathi Therefore, he should be listing his name as: NJERU JOHN KIMATHI I don't know why Africans put their second name [i.e., baptism name] first. We really got this naming business completely wrong!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/2/2012 Posts: 1,134 Location: Nairobi
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Rahatupu wrote:mukiha wrote:This is what happens when you try to translate a phrase directly from one language to another.
the person you call John Njeru Kimathi, is actually John Njeru wa-Kimathi....or John Njeru mtu-Kimathi (John Njeru M'Kimathi)....or John Njeru ole-Kimathi..... John Njeru arap-Kimathi
The "wa", "mtu", "ole", "arap" etc signify that he belongs to Kimathi.
His wife is Kwamboka wa-Njeru and all his children are xxx wa Njeru.
Now there is no confusion.
But what should happen if John gets his PhD..... and gets promoted to the post of Professor?
@Mukiha, if we follow your logic then it folows that his wife Kwamboka should be called after his father, not husband. This is the confusion that added to our confusion calling wives by their husbands names was not part of our culture, In many [most?] cultures of the world, when a woman gets married she no longer "belongs" to her father; she now "belongs" to her husband. So, @mukiha was right she should be Kwamboka wa-Njeru
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 1,982 Location: matano manne
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chiaroscuro wrote:Rahatupu wrote:mukiha wrote:This is what happens when you try to translate a phrase directly from one language to another.
the person you call John Njeru Kimathi, is actually John Njeru wa-Kimathi....or John Njeru mtu-Kimathi (John Njeru M'Kimathi)....or John Njeru ole-Kimathi..... John Njeru arap-Kimathi
The "wa", "mtu", "ole", "arap" etc signify that he belongs to Kimathi.
His wife is Kwamboka wa-Njeru and all his children are xxx wa Njeru.
Now there is no confusion.
But what should happen if John gets his PhD..... and gets promoted to the post of Professor?
@Mukiha, if we follow your logic then it folows that his wife Kwamboka should be called after his father, not husband. This is the confusion that added to our confusion calling wives by their husbands names was not part of our culture, In many [most?] cultures of the world, when a woman gets married she no longer "belongs" to her father; she now "belongs" to her husband. So, @mukiha was right she should be Kwamboka wa-Njeru . Wrong, in African culture all children were named after their fathers period. Marriage had no effect on names. .....in Mukiha logic, the "wa" "arap" "ole" denoted of
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2015 Posts: 681 Location: Kenya
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Rahatupu wrote:chiaroscuro wrote:Rahatupu wrote:mukiha wrote:This is what happens when you try to translate a phrase directly from one language to another.
the person you call John Njeru Kimathi, is actually John Njeru wa-Kimathi....or John Njeru mtu-Kimathi (John Njeru M'Kimathi)....or John Njeru ole-Kimathi..... John Njeru arap-Kimathi
The "wa", "mtu", "ole", "arap" etc signify that he belongs to Kimathi.
His wife is Kwamboka wa-Njeru and all his children are xxx wa Njeru.
Now there is no confusion.
But what should happen if John gets his PhD..... and gets promoted to the post of Professor?
@Mukiha, if we follow your logic then it folows that his wife Kwamboka should be called after his father, not husband. This is the confusion that added to our confusion calling wives by their husbands names was not part of our culture, In many [most?] cultures of the world, when a woman gets married she no longer "belongs" to her father; she now "belongs" to her husband. So, @mukiha was right she should be Kwamboka wa-Njeru . Wrong, in African culture all children were named after their fathers period. Marriage had no effect on names. .....in Mukiha logic, the "wa" "arap" "ole" denoted of Disagree. Atleast in mt. region, wife's name changed after payment of bride price. Wangù wa Makeri was youngest wife to Makeri wa Mbogo. Assuming this generation had not lost traditions to mzungu.
60% Learning, 30% synthesizing, 10% Debating
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 1,982 Location: matano manne
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Thitifini wrote:Rahatupu wrote:chiaroscuro wrote:Rahatupu wrote:mukiha wrote:This is what happens when you try to translate a phrase directly from one language to another.
the person you call John Njeru Kimathi, is actually John Njeru wa-Kimathi....or John Njeru mtu-Kimathi (John Njeru M'Kimathi)....or John Njeru ole-Kimathi..... John Njeru arap-Kimathi
The "wa", "mtu", "ole", "arap" etc signify that he belongs to Kimathi.
His wife is Kwamboka wa-Njeru and all his children are xxx wa Njeru.
Now there is no confusion.
But what should happen if John gets his PhD..... and gets promoted to the post of Professor?
@Mukiha, if we follow your logic then it folows that his wife Kwamboka should be called after his father, not husband. This is the confusion that added to our confusion calling wives by their husbands names was not part of our culture, In many [most?] cultures of the world, when a woman gets married she no longer "belongs" to her father; she now "belongs" to her husband. So, @mukiha was right she should be Kwamboka wa-Njeru . Wrong, in African culture all children were named after their fathers period. Marriage had no effect on names. .....in Mukiha logic, the "wa" "arap" "ole" denoted of Disagree. Atleast in mt. region, wife's name changed after payment of bride price. Wangù wa Makeri was youngest wife to Makeri wa Mbogo. Assuming this generation had not lost traditions to mzungu. . @Thitifini, if you go back long enough....... before the British corruption, BTW this story is as told by the Brits hence even the assumption and branding her by her husband's name.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/2/2012 Posts: 1,134 Location: Nairobi
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Rahatupu wrote:chiaroscuro wrote:Rahatupu wrote:mukiha wrote:This is what happens when you try to translate a phrase directly from one language to another.
the person you call John Njeru Kimathi, is actually John Njeru wa-Kimathi....or John Njeru mtu-Kimathi (John Njeru M'Kimathi)....or John Njeru ole-Kimathi..... John Njeru arap-Kimathi
The "wa", "mtu", "ole", "arap" etc signify that he belongs to Kimathi.
His wife is Kwamboka wa-Njeru and all his children are xxx wa Njeru.
Now there is no confusion.
But what should happen if John gets his PhD..... and gets promoted to the post of Professor?
@Mukiha, if we follow your logic then it folows that his wife Kwamboka should be called after his father, not husband. This is the confusion that added to our confusion calling wives by their husbands names was not part of our culture, In many [most?] cultures of the world, when a woman gets married she no longer "belongs" to her father; she now "belongs" to her husband. So, @mukiha was right she should be Kwamboka wa-Njeru . Wrong, in African culture all children were named after their fathers period. Marriage had no effect on names. .....in Mukiha logic, the "wa" "arap" "ole" denoted of Which part of Africa?
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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chiaroscuro wrote:Rahatupu wrote:chiaroscuro wrote:Rahatupu wrote:mukiha wrote:This is what happens when you try to translate a phrase directly from one language to another.
the person you call John Njeru Kimathi, is actually John Njeru wa-Kimathi....or John Njeru mtu-Kimathi (John Njeru M'Kimathi)....or John Njeru ole-Kimathi..... John Njeru arap-Kimathi
The "wa", "mtu", "ole", "arap" etc signify that he belongs to Kimathi.
His wife is Kwamboka wa-Njeru and all his children are xxx wa Njeru.
Now there is no confusion.
But what should happen if John gets his PhD..... and gets promoted to the post of Professor?
@Mukiha, if we follow your logic then it folows that his wife Kwamboka should be called after his father, not husband. This is the confusion that added to our confusion calling wives by their husbands names was not part of our culture, In many [most?] cultures of the world, when a woman gets married she no longer "belongs" to her father; she now "belongs" to her husband. So, @mukiha was right she should be Kwamboka wa-Njeru . Wrong, in African culture all children were named after their fathers period. Marriage had no effect on names. .....in Mukiha logic, the "wa" "arap" "ole" denoted of Which part of Africa? 0.5695° N, 34.5584° E If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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