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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@Alph, NO ONE can show the three conditions above to be TRUE without committing serious logical fallacies, like you've done.
Among the fallacies in your post is one that I find very illustrative: In the context of our conversation, 'blind folding' = Something to do with modesty...
Another: that quoting the Quran's sentiments about other worlds = showing 'that other worlds'... Therefore ALL worlds.
I'd guess we're now in a 'casuistry zone'...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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masukuma wrote:tycho wrote:And why isn't @masukuma posting a selfie of him eating something?   OMG!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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tycho wrote:@Alph, NO ONE can show the three conditions above to be TRUE without committing serious logical fallacies, like you've done.
Among the fallacies in your post is one that I find very illustrative: In the context of our conversation, 'blind folding' = Something to do with modesty...
Another: that quoting the Quran's sentiments about other worlds = showing 'that other worlds'... Therefore ALL worlds.
I'd guess we're now in a 'casuistry zone'... Apart from modesty and honour to the woman, we get definite authority from two sources: (1). the Quran which exact words of Allah, and (2). Sunnah which is words and actions of His prophet. So for this case we see that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh did not blind fold his wives. He kept them in a separate houses visiting them on an alternate basis as we see in below hadith: It was narrated that Aishah (RA) said: "The Messenger of Allah used to divide his time equally among his wives, then he would say 'O Allah, this is what I am doing with regard to that which is within my control, so do not hold me accountable for that which is under Your control and is beyond my control.'" (Ibn Majah,Sahih) This shows that group sex, blind-folding a woman in order to have intercourse with another woman present, is not allowed in Islam, it is haram in Islam.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:@Alph, NO ONE can show the three conditions above to be TRUE without committing serious logical fallacies, like you've done.
Among the fallacies in your post is one that I find very illustrative: In the context of our conversation, 'blind folding' = Something to do with modesty...
Another: that quoting the Quran's sentiments about other worlds = showing 'that other worlds'... Therefore ALL worlds.
I'd guess we're now in a 'casuistry zone'... Apart from modesty and honour to the woman, we get definite authority from two sources: (1). the Quran which exact words of Allah, and (2). Sunnah which is words and actions of His prophet. So for this case we see that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh did not blind fold his wives. He kept them in a separate houses visiting them on an alternate basis, showing that group sex is not allowed in Islam as we see in below hadith: It was narrated that Aishah (RA) said: "The Messenger of Allah used to divide his time equally among his wives, then he would say 'O Allah, this is what I am doing with regard to that which is within my control, so do not hold me accountable for that which is under Your control and is beyond my control.'" (Ibn Majah,Sahih) From this, blind-folding a woman in order to have intercourse with another woman present, is haram in Islam. From this it doesn't necessarily follow... It's a possibility- what you've deduced. You're trying an impossibility.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:@Alph, NO ONE can show the three conditions above to be TRUE without committing serious logical fallacies, like you've done.
Among the fallacies in your post is one that I find very illustrative: In the context of our conversation, 'blind folding' = Something to do with modesty...
Another: that quoting the Quran's sentiments about other worlds = showing 'that other worlds'... Therefore ALL worlds.
I'd guess we're now in a 'casuistry zone'... Apart from modesty and honour to the woman, we get definite authority from two sources: (1). the Quran which exact words of Allah, and (2). Sunnah which is words and actions of His prophet. So for this case we see that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh did not blind fold his wives. He kept them in a separate houses visiting them on an alternate basis, showing that group sex is not allowed in Islam as we see in below hadith: It was narrated that Aishah (RA) said: "The Messenger of Allah used to divide his time equally among his wives, then he would say 'O Allah, this is what I am doing with regard to that which is within my control, so do not hold me accountable for that which is under Your control and is beyond my control.'" (Ibn Majah,Sahih) From this, blind-folding a woman in order to have intercourse with another woman present, is haram in Islam. From this it doesn't necessarily follow... It's a possibility- what you've deduced. You're trying an impossibility. As I mentioned to you sometimes back, or it was to someone else... There are three ways to determine what is halal or haram in Islam: (1). the Quran which is exact words of Allah (2). the Sunnah which words or actions or approvals of prophet Muhammad s.a.w (3). ijma, qiyas, ijtehad is rulings all the good and respected scholars of Islam are unanimous... they derive rulings form the Quran and sunnah. So group sex is something which there is no dispute that it is haraam.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:@Alph, NO ONE can show the three conditions above to be TRUE without committing serious logical fallacies, like you've done.
Among the fallacies in your post is one that I find very illustrative: In the context of our conversation, 'blind folding' = Something to do with modesty...
Another: that quoting the Quran's sentiments about other worlds = showing 'that other worlds'... Therefore ALL worlds.
I'd guess we're now in a 'casuistry zone'... Apart from modesty and honour to the woman, we get definite authority from two sources: (1). the Quran which exact words of Allah, and (2). Sunnah which is words and actions of His prophet. So for this case we see that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh did not blind fold his wives. He kept them in a separate houses visiting them on an alternate basis, showing that group sex is not allowed in Islam as we see in below hadith: It was narrated that Aishah (RA) said: "The Messenger of Allah used to divide his time equally among his wives, then he would say 'O Allah, this is what I am doing with regard to that which is within my control, so do not hold me accountable for that which is under Your control and is beyond my control.'" (Ibn Majah,Sahih) From this, blind-folding a woman in order to have intercourse with another woman present, is haram in Islam. From this it doesn't necessarily follow... It's a possibility- what you've deduced. You're trying an impossibility. As I mentioned to you sometimes back, or it was to someone else... There are three ways to determine what is halal or haram in Islam: (1). the Quran which is exact words of Allah (2). the Sunnah which words or actions or approvals of prophet Muhammad s.a.w (3). ijma, qiyas, ijtehad is rulings all the good and respected scholars of Islam are unanimous... they derive rulings form the Quran and sunnah. So group sex is something which there is no dispute that it is haraam. These are general postulates. But they involve a lot of improvisation in between. Like how you've improvised on the issue of blind folding. But even more important is the fact that, that's how humans will tend to reason, especially in a discretely changing environment. There are no necessary morals, yet morals will tend to impose themselves as necessities. Another thing that is important is that, there exists at least one understanding of God that would allow so much diversity as to preclude the idea of 'necessary moral codes'. So to say that God spoke to X and Y and therefore X is Y is markedly false. Religion is good, but mostly when we know it's limits and use it accordingly.
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:@Alph, NO ONE can show the three conditions above to be TRUE without committing serious logical fallacies, like you've done.
Among the fallacies in your post is one that I find very illustrative: In the context of our conversation, 'blind folding' = Something to do with modesty...
Another: that quoting the Quran's sentiments about other worlds = showing 'that other worlds'... Therefore ALL worlds.
I'd guess we're now in a 'casuistry zone'... Apart from modesty and honour to the woman, we get definite authority from two sources: (1). the Quran which exact words of Allah, and (2). Sunnah which is words and actions of His prophet. So for this case we see that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh did not blind fold his wives. He kept them in a separate houses visiting them on an alternate basis, showing that group sex is not allowed in Islam as we see in below hadith: It was narrated that Aishah (RA) said: "The Messenger of Allah used to divide his time equally among his wives, then he would say 'O Allah, this is what I am doing with regard to that which is within my control, so do not hold me accountable for that which is under Your control and is beyond my control.'" (Ibn Majah,Sahih) From this, blind-folding a woman in order to have intercourse with another woman present, is haram in Islam. From this it doesn't necessarily follow... It's a possibility- what you've deduced. You're trying an impossibility. As I mentioned to you sometimes back, or it was to someone else... There are three ways to determine what is halal or haram in Islam: (1). the Quran which is exact words of Allah (2). the Sunnah which words or actions or approvals of prophet Muhammad s.a.w (3). ijma, qiyas, ijtehad is rulings all the good and respected scholars of Islam are unanimous... they derive rulings form the Quran and sunnah. So group sex is something which there is no dispute that it is haraam. Sheikh, can you give me the reasoning as to why Islam allows a man to marry upto 4 wives but doesn't approve me having one wife and one mpango wa kando? Strictly speaking, group sex doesn't have to happen concurrentl.The fact that you are having sex with your 4 wives at different times/locations can technically be considered group sex Quote:Group:a number of people or things that are located close together or are considered or classed together. If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Swenani wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:AlphDoti wrote:tycho wrote:@Alph, NO ONE can show the three conditions above to be TRUE without committing serious logical fallacies, like you've done.
Among the fallacies in your post is one that I find very illustrative: In the context of our conversation, 'blind folding' = Something to do with modesty...
Another: that quoting the Quran's sentiments about other worlds = showing 'that other worlds'... Therefore ALL worlds.
I'd guess we're now in a 'casuistry zone'... Apart from modesty and honour to the woman, we get definite authority from two sources: (1). the Quran which exact words of Allah, and (2). Sunnah which is words and actions of His prophet. So for this case we see that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh did not blind fold his wives. He kept them in a separate houses visiting them on an alternate basis, showing that group sex is not allowed in Islam as we see in below hadith: It was narrated that Aishah (RA) said: "The Messenger of Allah used to divide his time equally among his wives, then he would say 'O Allah, this is what I am doing with regard to that which is within my control, so do not hold me accountable for that which is under Your control and is beyond my control.'" (Ibn Majah,Sahih) From this, blind-folding a woman in order to have intercourse with another woman present, is haram in Islam. From this it doesn't necessarily follow... It's a possibility- what you've deduced. You're trying an impossibility. As I mentioned to you sometimes back, or it was to someone else... There are three ways to determine what is halal or haram in Islam: (1). the Quran which is exact words of Allah (2). the Sunnah which words or actions or approvals of prophet Muhammad s.a.w (3). ijma, qiyas, ijtehad is rulings all the good and respected scholars of Islam are unanimous... they derive rulings form the Quran and sunnah. So group sex is something which there is no dispute that it is haraam. Sheikh, can you give me the reasoning as to why Islam allows a man to marry upto 4 wives but doesn't approve me having one wife and one mpango wa kando? Strictly speaking, group sex doesn't have to happen concurrentl.The fact that you are having sex with your 4 wives at different times/locations can technically be considered group sex Quote:Group:a number of people or things that are located close together or are considered or classed together. True, group also means family... it also means living close together... but no group sex in Islam. But you can visit your wives on an alternate basis, one after another. The authority is from the below hadith: It was narrated that Aishah (RA) said: "The Messenger of Allah used to divide his time equally among his wives, then he would say 'O Allah, this is what I am doing with regard to that which is within my control, so do not hold me accountable for that which is under Your control and is beyond my control.'" (Ibn Majah,Sahih)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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@Drobos fly.. We have avoided LEWD talk 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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Swenani wrote:Sheikh, can you give me the reasoning as to why Islam allows a man to marry upto 4 wives but doesn't approve me having one wife and one mpango wa kando? First, marrying more than one is not a must. Quran 4:3 says: "...marry those that please you of women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only]" Secondly, there are many reasons why man is allowed to marry more than one wife. You see, not all men are the same... (1). there are men EVEN ONE is no, no! (2). there are men one is okay ad enough, (3). there are those one wife is not enough. This is the category we are talking about. Remember there are some women who don't mind sharing. We're not saying all women want to share. We are saying some don't mind. And these category agree to share the man who needs more than one. Thirdly, why not mpango wa kando? Answer lies in your word "wife"... Why wife in the first place? So the reason why woman wants to be wife is the reason why not mpango... It is about the institution of marriage, approved by God Almighty. Extramarital affairs is haram in Islam. The woman in this relationship is disgraced and unprotected. A woman in marriage is honoured.
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