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Hon. Kenneth Stanley Njindo Matiba
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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masukuma wrote:hardwood wrote:Lolest! wrote:hardwood wrote:Rahatupu wrote:Actually, other communities actively participated in one way or another... like the Nandi Resistance to British Rule, from 1890-1906.
@Alphdoti, that is not true. Other communities were not subjected to the brutality of the colonial rule as those in the Mountain region. That is a fact. Hence these communities had no option but to resist and fight back the colonial brutality. As early as 1880s Mekatilili wa Menza encountered the British and resisted their presence. Waiyaki wa Hinga did the same and so did Koitalel.
However, unlike in other areas where the British merely ""passed"their settlement in central Kenya made life really unbearable for the locals hence their resentment and raise of Mau Mau as a force to counter the brutal and dehumanizing rule. Very true. Unlike in other areas of kenya where mzungu ruled by remote control, the mzungu displaced okuyos and took their land and forced them to work on the mzungu farms for slave wages. That is why they had to resist. Mluhyas, joluos, mkambas etc were never put in villages and never had their land taken or provide forced labour and that is why they belittle the mau mau struggle. Central (and parts of RV) was considered prime land for coffee (black gold) and tea. Laikipia was good for ranching. Mzungu feared malaria in nyanza and western. The other parts of the country were too arid. The irony is, while Kikuyus moan loudest about loss of land, they're net land gainers from the order created by the British. Even Nyandarua county was part of Maasailand before British colonization True. Their territory nearly doubled. They gained Nyandarua, nakuru, laikipia etc. Okuyus should be grateful for colonization. Hakuna land ya mtu... Land changes hands as time moves on based on many different factors ! What we are saying is that instead of okuyos complaining that they lost land due to mzungu, they should be grateful that they GAINED lots of land. Colonisation was good for their future well being.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2008 Posts: 2,723
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hardwood wrote:masukuma wrote:hardwood wrote:Lolest! wrote:hardwood wrote:Rahatupu wrote:Actually, other communities actively participated in one way or another... like the Nandi Resistance to British Rule, from 1890-1906.
@Alphdoti, that is not true. Other communities were not subjected to the brutality of the colonial rule as those in the Mountain region. That is a fact. Hence these communities had no option but to resist and fight back the colonial brutality. As early as 1880s Mekatilili wa Menza encountered the British and resisted their presence. Waiyaki wa Hinga did the same and so did Koitalel.
However, unlike in other areas where the British merely ""passed"their settlement in central Kenya made life really unbearable for the locals hence their resentment and raise of Mau Mau as a force to counter the brutal and dehumanizing rule. Very true. Unlike in other areas of kenya where mzungu ruled by remote control, the mzungu displaced okuyos and took their land and forced them to work on the mzungu farms for slave wages. That is why they had to resist. Mluhyas, joluos, mkambas etc were never put in villages and never had their land taken or provide forced labour and that is why they belittle the mau mau struggle. Central (and parts of RV) was considered prime land for coffee (black gold) and tea. Laikipia was good for ranching. Mzungu feared malaria in nyanza and western. The other parts of the country were too arid. The irony is, while Kikuyus moan loudest about loss of land, they're net land gainers from the order created by the British. Even Nyandarua county was part of Maasailand before British colonization True. Their territory nearly doubled. They gained Nyandarua, nakuru, laikipia etc. Okuyus should be grateful for colonization. Hakuna land ya mtu... Land changes hands as time moves on based on many different factors ! What we are saying is that instead of okuyos complaining that they lost land due to mzungu, they should be grateful that they GAINED lots of land. Colonisation was good for their future well being. I think the worst thing anybody can do to his children is to tell them that kuna watu wako na deni yao. History is very complicated and very often misunderstood because most times when it is transmitted it is transmitted in summary form with a lot of context missing. Many things that happened very many years apart are talked about as if they happened at the same time or very close to each other. Independent actors through which a certain effect happened are thought to have acted together. Accidents and happenstances are always thought of as premeditated actions. Africans were not writers, they were just guys of kupeana story and if the stories I have heard from my own relatives are anything to go by they mixed up everything so that even though I have heard a lot of words about many things I am convinced I am not any more informed about what really happened about things that I have been told about time without number. If we had more people like Miguna in the past we would have had a much more reliable account of what happened in the past. Of all Kenyans I know, Miguna is the best at documenting what happens to him and around him.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/15/2018 Posts: 428
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Mukoloni was bad, but not as bad as the leaders who inherited power from them. When mukoloni was in power, Kenya was not as unlivable, corrupt, tribally divided and morally bankrupt as it is now. Infrastructure was OK. nairobi and other towns were very livable. There was some ethnic tension but not as bad as now. Even hospitals worked, garbage was collected, roads were maintained and cities and towns were planned.
kenyatta gave his people a siege mentality: Whenever anyone questioned his misrule or his looting or land grabbing, he rallied his people against that person and convinced them that there very livelihood depended on keeping him in power no matter how lousy a president he was. The net result of this misrule was aptly described as a sheet-hole by trump.
Whatever problem we have in Kenya today can be traced to kenyatta whether its is corruption, poor infrastructure, tribal divisions, crime ........... Nahisi kwamba this is why the wakoloni called kenyatta "the leader unto death and destruction".
Then Kenyatta cursed Kenya further by appointing Baba Moi as the next president and killing the best leaders Kenya had like Pinto, Ngala, Mboya, JM, Karumba while demoting and humiliating good/unselfish leaders like Kaggia. And also jailing reformers like Muliro and Koigi
And Baba moi took what he learned from Kenyatta, refined said tactics and did the same things except worse. Moi in turn gave us Kibaki and Kenyatta II so that the wealth of Kenya's royal families can be kept intact. And next Is Gideon, also from one of the corrupt royal families. And Kenya is a royally screwed sheet-hole for another 10 years.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/22/2014 Posts: 321 Location: Ndeiya
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Much Know wrote:Before the United States joined the world war II, where Britain was at risk of losing to Germany, President Woodrow Wilson made Wintson Churchhill to swear a secret Mt. Kenya oath administered by a Mt.Kenya elder, largely organised by Jomo Kenyatta, in the Presence of several global elders, that he will grant independence to ALL AFRICAN countries within 15 years from 1941, this is called the ATLANTIC CHARTER, this is the document that guaranteed our independence and not the other things you hear about, research it! It is the good side of America, that saved us, otherwise we would have been cleared aboriginal style, eveolution theory had prepared the ground, people now thought we were really monkeys, up to today, "monkeys argue" about how they got independence, it was granted by God. Woodrow Wilson (1856-1924) was president from 1913 to 1921. WWII was 1939-1945 affair, 15 yrs after Woodrow's death.....according to History.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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radiomast wrote:Mukoloni was bad, but not as bad as the leaders who inherited power from them. When mukoloni was in power, Kenya was not as unlivable, corrupt, tribally divided and morally bankrupt as it is now. Infrastructure was OK. nairobi and other towns were very livable. There was some ethnic tension but not as bad as now. Even hospitals worked, garbage was collected, roads were maintained and cities and towns were planned.
kenyatta gave his people a siege mentality: Whenever anyone questioned his misrule or his looting or land grabbing, he rallied his people against that person and convinced them that there very livelihood depended on keeping him in power no matter how lousy a president he was. The net result of this misrule was aptly described as a sheet-hole by trump.
Whatever problem we have in Kenya today can be traced to kenyatta whether its is corruption, poor infrastructure, tribal divisions, crime ........... Nahisi kwamba this is why the wakoloni called kenyatta "the leader unto death and destruction".
Then Kenyatta cursed Kenya further by appointing Baba Moi as the next president and killing the best leaders Kenya had like Pinto, Ngala, Mboya, JM, Karumba while demoting and humiliating good/unselfish leaders like Kaggia. And also jailing reformers like Muliro and Koigi
And Baba moi took what he learned from Kenyatta, refined said tactics and did the same things except worse. Moi in turn gave us Kibaki and Kenyatta II so that the wealth of Kenya's royal families can be kept intact. And next Is Gideon, also from one of the corrupt royal families. And Kenya is a royally screwed sheet-hole for another 10 years.
The first thing you need to understand is that Mzungu built just enough institutions for himself! I have been all over the world and it's exactly what he did. If he did not have long term plans - he just put up a railway to carry stuff out. Roads from the areas he thought were productive. He setup hospitals for himself! he had garbage collection for himself. He banned Africans from staying in certain areas of the city that had these activities. i.e. he brought his home here to the largest extent he could..but just enough for himself. Yes, Kenyatta brought ethnic tensions between Native Africans just like many post independence leaders. The post colonial states in most of the planet was just a mirror of the colonial state. From Americas to the Pascific! By the way, the term "the leader to darkness, death and destruction" as used by Sir Patrick Renison was because of the fear the settlers had for Kenyatta! They saw themselves as Kenyans and he looked like the type of Julius Malema character that would deprive them of "their" land. That is why he wanted Oginga Odinga to be PM instead of Kenyatta. This fear is why some left after independence and sold their farms to the state. The Farms were sold out to Kenyans who would pay loans for them until the 80s. My grandfather was one of these persons who got land in rift valley Here is an interesting piece by Sir Michael Blundell - A politician https://www.nation.co.ke...60162-9smk8b/index.html
Another piece that talks about KLFA (Kenya Land & Freedom Army - Mau Mau) is the Patrick Gathaara piece. Quote:
According to the British government, some 32 white civilians, 63 white military and 527 “loyalists” were killed. In contrast, 11,503 Africans died. Other sources have the Kikuyu death toll at anywhere between 20,000 and 30,000 with 10,527 fighters killed in action.
One thing is not in dispute though.
The British losses were remarkably light, with less than 100 dead.
What accounts for this discrepancy?
Was the conflict, as some (including the British) have termed it, less about aspirations to nationhood and more of a civil war within the Kikuyu community ps... it's shit hole and not sheet hole  Kenya is no more a shithole now than it was when mzungu left it. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/13/2015 Posts: 1,658
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Quote:The first thing you need to understand is that Mzungu built just enough institutions for himself! I have been all over the world and it's exactly what he did. If he did not have long term plans - he just put up a railway to carry stuff out. Roads from the areas he thought were productive. He setup hospitals for himself! he had garbage collection for himself. He banned Africans from staying in certain areas of the city that had these activities. i.e. he brought his home here to the largest extent he could..but just enough for himself.  Couldn't have put it better. The missionaries did a much better job of uplifting Africans than that shitty colonial state. That economic model is what we inherited and don't seem motivated to change it. You look to South Africa and see how owners of capital live in opulence without ever having to take any risk. Quote:This fear is why some left after independence and sold their farms to the state. The Farms were sold out to Kenyans who would pay loans for them until the 80s. My grandfather was one of these persons who got land in rift valley The pressure to resettle the landless after the mau mau uprising. Even if we got independence without the mau mau we would still have been third rate citizens providing labour in white farms and firms. As eloquently put by Malcolm X Quote:Because what the Mau Mau did frightened the white man so much in other countries until he said, "Well I better get this thing straight before some of them pop up here." This is good to study because you see what makes him react: Nothing loving makes him react, nothing forgiving makes him react. The only time he reacts is when he knows you can hurt him, and when you let him know you can hurt him he has to think two or three times before he tries to hurt you. But if you're not going to do nothing but return that hurt with love -- why good night! He knows you're out of your mind. Quote:Kenya is no more a shithole now than it was when mzungu left it. Well it may be but cleaning up a shithole is very easy. One thing I've realized in real estate is that you can always apply capital and labour and turn any land into a beauty. Kenya is one beautiful prime piece of real estate, we just need to work out our economic systems ditch that silly imperialist mzungu class system and build our own. Wakanda forever You can read rest of Malcolm X speech https://speakola.com/ide...-after-the-bombing-1965
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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masukuma wrote:radiomast wrote:Mukoloni was bad, but not as bad as the leaders who inherited power from them. When mukoloni was in power, Kenya was not as unlivable, corrupt, tribally divided and morally bankrupt as it is now. Infrastructure was OK. nairobi and other towns were very livable. There was some ethnic tension but not as bad as now. Even hospitals worked, garbage was collected, roads were maintained and cities and towns were planned.
kenyatta gave his people a siege mentality: Whenever anyone questioned his misrule or his looting or land grabbing, he rallied his people against that person and convinced them that there very livelihood depended on keeping him in power no matter how lousy a president he was. The net result of this misrule was aptly described as a sheet-hole by trump.
Whatever problem we have in Kenya today can be traced to kenyatta whether its is corruption, poor infrastructure, tribal divisions, crime ........... Nahisi kwamba this is why the wakoloni called kenyatta "the leader unto death and destruction".
Then Kenyatta cursed Kenya further by appointing Baba Moi as the next president and killing the best leaders Kenya had like Pinto, Ngala, Mboya, JM, Karumba while demoting and humiliating good/unselfish leaders like Kaggia. And also jailing reformers like Muliro and Koigi
And Baba moi took what he learned from Kenyatta, refined said tactics and did the same things except worse. Moi in turn gave us Kibaki and Kenyatta II so that the wealth of Kenya's royal families can be kept intact. And next Is Gideon, also from one of the corrupt royal families. And Kenya is a royally screwed sheet-hole for another 10 years.
The first thing you need to understand is that Mzungu built just enough institutions for himself! I have been all over the world and it's exactly what he did. If he did not have long term plans - he just put up a railway to carry stuff out. Roads from the areas he thought were productive. He setup hospitals for himself! he had garbage collection for himself. He banned Africans from staying in certain areas of the city that had these activities. i.e. he brought his home here to the largest extent he could..but just enough for himself. Yes, Kenyatta brought ethnic tensions between Native Africans just like many post independence leaders. The post colonial states in most of the planet was just a mirror of the colonial state. From Americas to the Pascific! By the way, the term "the leader to darkness, death and destruction" as used by Sir Patrick Renison was because of the fear the settlers had for Kenyatta! They saw themselves as Kenyans and he looked like the type of Julius Malema character that would deprive them of "their" land. That is why he wanted Oginga Odinga to be PM instead of Kenyatta. This fear is why some left after independence and sold their farms to the state. The Farms were sold out to Kenyans who would pay loans for them until the 80s. My grandfather was one of these persons who got land in rift valley Here is an interesting piece by Sir Michael Blundell - A politician https://www.nation.co.ke...60162-9smk8b/index.html
Another piece that talks about KLFA (Kenya Land & Freedom Army - Mau Mau) is the Patrick Gathaara piece. Quote:
According to the British government, some 32 white civilians, 63 white military and 527 “loyalists” were killed. In contrast, 11,503 Africans died. Other sources have the Kikuyu death toll at anywhere between 20,000 and 30,000 with 10,527 fighters killed in action.
One thing is not in dispute though.
The British losses were remarkably light, with less than 100 dead.
What accounts for this discrepancy?
Was the conflict, as some (including the British) have termed it, less about aspirations to nationhood and more of a civil war within the Kikuyu community ps... it's shit hole and not sheet hole Kenya is no more a shithole now than it was when mzungu left it. Tunagawana when? My grandfather was busy eating fish If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,585
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Mtafiti wrote:Much Know wrote:Before the United States joined the world war II, where Britain was at risk of losing to Germany, President Woodrow Wilson made Wintson Churchhill to swear a secret Mt. Kenya oath administered by a Mt.Kenya elder, largely organised by Jomo Kenyatta, in the Presence of several global elders, that he will grant independence to ALL AFRICAN countries within 15 years from 1941, this is called the ATLANTIC CHARTER, this is the document that guaranteed our independence and not the other things you hear about, research it! It is the good side of America, that saved us, otherwise we would have been cleared aboriginal style, eveolution theory had prepared the ground, people now thought we were really monkeys, up to today, "monkeys argue" about how they got independence, it was granted by God. Woodrow Wilson (1856-1924) was president from 1913 to 1921. WWII was 1939-1945 affair, 15 yrs after Woodrow's death.....according to History. Correction, F D Roosevelt was the fellow, was mixing them up, thanks for that! Ras Kienyeji Man
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/3/2008 Posts: 4,058 Location: Gwitu
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Much Know wrote:Mtafiti wrote:Much Know wrote:Before the United States joined the world war II, where Britain was at risk of losing to Germany, President Woodrow Wilson made Wintson Churchhill to swear a secret Mt. Kenya oath administered by a Mt.Kenya elder, largely organised by Jomo Kenyatta, in the Presence of several global elders, that he will grant independence to ALL AFRICAN countries within 15 years from 1941, this is called the ATLANTIC CHARTER, this is the document that guaranteed our independence and not the other things you hear about, research it! It is the good side of America, that saved us, otherwise we would have been cleared aboriginal style, eveolution theory had prepared the ground, people now thought we were really monkeys, up to today, "monkeys argue" about how they got independence, it was granted by God. Woodrow Wilson (1856-1924) was president from 1913 to 1921. WWII was 1939-1945 affair, 15 yrs after Woodrow's death.....according to History. Correction, F D Roosevelt was the fellow, was mixing them up, thanks for that! Wazungu were in Kenya and Rhodesia to stay. Were it not for WW2 they would still be here. Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/18/2008 Posts: 3,434 Location: Kerugoya
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kaka2za wrote:Much Know wrote:Mtafiti wrote:Much Know wrote:Before the United States joined the world war II, where Britain was at risk of losing to Germany, President Woodrow Wilson made Wintson Churchhill to swear a secret Mt. Kenya oath administered by a Mt.Kenya elder, largely organised by Jomo Kenyatta, in the Presence of several global elders, that he will grant independence to ALL AFRICAN countries within 15 years from 1941, this is called the ATLANTIC CHARTER, this is the document that guaranteed our independence and not the other things you hear about, research it! It is the good side of America, that saved us, otherwise we would have been cleared aboriginal style, eveolution theory had prepared the ground, people now thought we were really monkeys, up to today, "monkeys argue" about how they got independence, it was granted by God. Woodrow Wilson (1856-1924) was president from 1913 to 1921. WWII was 1939-1945 affair, 15 yrs after Woodrow's death.....according to History. Correction, F D Roosevelt was the fellow, was mixing them up, thanks for that! Wazungu were in Kenya and Rhodesia to stay. Were it not for WW2 they would still be here. They are still here. But they are hiding in plain sight. PORK is currently leading a delegation to their Annual General Meeting.
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