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Hon. Kenneth Stanley Njindo Matiba
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Much Know wrote:Before the United States joined the world war II, where Britain was at risk of losing to Germany, President Woodrow Wilson made Wintson Churchhill to swear a secret Mt. Kenya oath administered by a Mt.Kenya elder, largely organised by Jomo Kenyatta, in the Presence of several global elders, that he will grant independence to ALL AFRICAN countries within 15 years from 1941, this is called the ATLANTIC CHARTER, this is the document that guaranteed our independence and not the other things you hear about, research it! It is the good side of America, that saved us, otherwise we would have been cleared aboriginal style, eveolution theory had prepared the ground, people now thought we were really monkeys, up to today, "monkeys argue" about how they got independence, it was granted by God.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,585
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By the time Alliance was opening, Africans had started their own schools and colleges, and were ready to unleash a very effective spy called Johnstone Kamau, the Church elders, Colonial "Chiefs", Headmen e.t.c have NEVER been the "elite", yes they are "rich", but that's all, secrets run very deep, by the time the Methodist were setting up their schools in shags, walikuwa wameanza kutii sisi ni wajuaji! Ras Kienyeji Man
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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limanika wrote:hardwood wrote:Was Matiba Kenya's enemy No 1 who derailed the match to Canaan in 1992? When all the revolutionary forces had lined up in FORD ready to remove dictator Moi, Matiba spoilt the party and aborted the imminent victory. All the generals at the time had lined up behind Jaramogi - people like Muite, wamalwa, Orengo, Raila, Imanyara, Kiraitu etc. Then matiba who was very unwell at the time both physically and mentally decided to break away and run on his own, or was pushed to run by a selfish cartel that wanted to ride on his name even though they knew his poor health status. And the rest is history. check your facts again. The difference betwn jaramogi and matiba was on method of nominating the pork candidate. Jaramogi wanted delegates to do the job while matiba wanted the common man to decide. In the end they couldn't agree and the man who could have united them (muliro) died (some say murdered) in the confusion. That said, it was kibaki who split the Kikuyu vote and denied matiba victory My comment strictly relates to the 1992 elections where I feel it was to wrong to have matiba as a candidate. He should have said "Jaramogi tosha". Otherwise I have great respect for him for his courage, public service, politics and entrepreneurship.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Much Know wrote:Before the United States joined the world war II, where Britain was at risk of losing to Germany, President Woodrow Wilson made Wintson Churchhill to swear a secret Mt. Kenya oath administered by a Mt.Kenya elder, largely organised by Jomo Kenyatta, in the Presence of several global elders, that he will grant independence to ALL AFRICAN countries within 15 years from 1941, this is called the ATLANTIC CHARTER, this is the document that guaranteed our independence and not the other things you hear about, research it! It is the good side of America, that saved us, otherwise we would have been cleared aboriginal style, eveolution theory had prepared the ground, people now thought we were really monkeys, up to today, "monkeys argue" about how they got independence, it was granted by God. So @masukuma is right that uhuru was coming whether mau mau went to the forest or not? Then I may have to apologise to him for some remarks I made.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/13/2015 Posts: 1,658
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masukuma wrote:hardwood wrote:masukuma wrote:wukan wrote:limanika wrote:I expect flags at half mast and 3 days of mourning for this great hero What for? Matiba and his father denounced the mau mau collaborated with the colonial state enjoying the state patronage while the peasants struggled for independence. It's only after Moi used the same colonial instruments rigging and detention without trial that Matiba saw the light and start agitating for multiparty democracy. The revolt against Moi/Kanu was already simmering and he conveniently got the leadership role bestowed on him. I don't understand how being a fence-sitter in the first liberation then using the same kikuyu peasants in the second liberation makes him a hero. All he did was understand later in life what the struggle was about. All the same may he RIP What did the Mau Mau really do? Asking for a friend? They are fabled to have given us independence from Mbeberu...How... they killed around 70 mzungus more Wazungus must have died from Malaria! AGAIN... what did they do? @masukumawiki you are an IDIOT. Go read Kenyan history before exhibiting your ignorance here. I am so sorry to break your little fragile heart and ego. That a militia that killed 70 white people gave you independence by chasing away an empire that defeated the Germans less than 20 years earlier. The political struggle gave us independence - if it was not for the Mau Mau akina kenyatta wouldn't have gone to prison. Political agitation was everything Mau Mau actually delayed independence! They are indirectly caused independence because Mbeberu acted inhumanly to people as a way to sort this rebellion and news of this went to the UK parliament and the British government started pulling out. Independence ganI hii ambayo Mbeberu anawapeleka lAncaster kuwatengenezea constitution? @Masukuma what is this fetish you have with killing white people. Who told you mau mau was set up to kill white people? It was a struggle against an oppressing system of which the white people looked like beneficiaries. That militia is what inspired the civil rights in the US with Malcom X was also pro-mau mau kinda struggle in the US. Nelson Mandela says that "in my 27 years of imprisonment I always say the images of fighters such as Kimathi, China and others as candles in my long hard way against injustice...it is an honor for any freedom fighter to pay respect to such heroes" Even the fight by Matiba for second liberation was eventually done by the donors and American pressure. It was the donor aid conditions that made Moi cave in because by then we were bankrupt attempting to run the colonial state.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,585
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hardwood wrote:Much Know wrote:Before the United States joined the world war II, where Britain was at risk of losing to Germany, President Woodrow Wilson made Wintson Churchhill to swear a secret Mt. Kenya oath administered by a Mt.Kenya elder, largely organised by Jomo Kenyatta, in the Presence of several global elders, that he will grant independence to ALL AFRICAN countries within 15 years from 1941, this is called the ATLANTIC CHARTER, this is the document that guaranteed our independence and not the other things you hear about, research it! It is the good side of America, that saved us, otherwise we would have been cleared aboriginal style, eveolution theory had prepared the ground, people now thought we were really monkeys, up to today, "monkeys argue" about how they got independence, it was granted by God. So @masukuma is right that uhuru was coming whether mau mau went to the forest or not? Then I may have to apologise to him for some remarks I made. There is a balance but Masukuma is largely right in my view, Dedan Kimathi did not know what he was doing, and not each and every action of the mkoloni was negative, and not each one, however, as much as the "white haired" Athamaki elders almost always oppose the young going to war, especially when it is clear they cant win by fighting, and withold their blessing, sometimes the young refuse and say they need cows to marry, it has since eternity always ended badly when the young men do this, Jomo was a geniune elder. Ras Kienyeji Man
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/13/2015 Posts: 1,658
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Rahatupu wrote:IMHO, I bet the colonialists achieved in Kenya beyond their wildest dreams. Today ours is a hegemonic imperialist state right from economic to political spheres. We have had the JK imperialist era where like the colonial times opposition was unwelcome, starting with the KPU Jaramogi errors all the way to JM and Tom Mboya murders in the political front that was continued by Nyayo with Ouko et al being sent to their graves early because of dissent. Not to mention Matiba and co incarceration.
On the economic front the plunder continues from where Jomo left and where Nyayo followed. In a word had the real freedom fighters of the JM, Kimathi and Kungu Karumba ilk taken over maybe we'd have true liberation at all fronts. But sadly we cannot appreciate the psychology of collaboration against their "house slave/nigger"mentality of when looked at from a point of view of what to do with independence.  This is what folks don't get that the colonial system in Kenya and the apartheid system were set up by first impoverishing the african by introducing the poll tax and hut tax to force the african to be a provider of cheap labour to work in mzungu farms or in SA in the mines. The taxes the colonial state collected were not used for the benefit of the african it was just used to fund "happy valley" lifestyles for a minority few. This imperialist economy is what Matiba and Co inherited and perfected using state patronage to advance their interests. Without state patronage the empires of Odinga, Michuki, Njenga Karume also seemed to crumble. I heard Paul Muite say that Matiba in his last days was concerned about that gap between the have and havenots. Every good working thing was run by the missionaries be it hospitals, the good schools. Look at the youtube videos of colonial kenya and operation anvil and see how poor and rugged our ancestors looked. Our economy was founded on plundering the resources of others using state machinery. No change has ever been done to that imperialist economy. We engage in high corruption to acquire resources to cross the divide. Anyway Steve Jobs said that death is the agent of change it clears out the old to give way to the new. The younger generations need to learn this history as they work to build their own story. Matiba RIP
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 1,982 Location: matano manne
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wukan wrote:Rahatupu wrote:IMHO, I bet the colonialists achieved in Kenya beyond their wildest dreams. Today ours is a hegemonic imperialist state right from economic to political spheres. We have had the JK imperialist era where like the colonial times opposition was unwelcome, starting with the KPU Jaramogi errors all the way to JM and Tom Mboya murders in the political front that was continued by Nyayo with Ouko et al being sent to their graves early because of dissent. Not to mention Matiba and co incarceration.
On the economic front the plunder continues from where Jomo left and where Nyayo followed. In a word had the real freedom fighters of the JM, Kimathi and Kungu Karumba ilk taken over maybe we'd have true liberation at all fronts. But sadly we cannot appreciate the psychology of collaboration against their "house slave/nigger"mentality of when looked at from a point of view of what to do with independence.  This is what folks don't get that the colonial system in Kenya and the apartheid system were set up by first impoverishing the african by introducing the poll tax and hut tax to force the african to be a provider of cheap labour to work in mzungu farms or in SA in the mines. The taxes the colonial state collected were not used for the benefit of the african it was just used to fund "happy valley" lifestyles for a minority few. This imperialist economy is what Matiba and Co inherited and perfected using state patronage to advance their interests. Without state patronage the empires of Odinga, Michuki, Njenga Karume also seemed to crumble. I heard Paul Muite say that Matiba in his last days was concerned about that gap between the have and havenots. Every good working thing was run by the missionaries be it hospitals, the good schools. Look at the youtube videos of colonial kenya and operation anvil and see how poor and rugged our ancestors looked. Our economy was founded on plundering the resources of others using state machinery. No change has ever been done to that imperialist economy. We engage in high corruption to acquire resources to cross the divide. Anyway Steve Jobs said that death is the agent of change it clears out the old to give way to the new. The younger generations need to learn this history as they work to build their own story. Matiba RIP  . Need I say more.... we never started our own systems nor design our own political or economic models to tackle poverty and disease. Instead we took over the empire and the new colonialist were now black, we clapped and marvelled at our new status as South African lately learnt. This is what @Masukuma et al need to appreciate.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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unlike what people think - there were 4 large factions/Groups 1) the United Kingdom Empire or British 2) the colonial government a.k.a. the settler' government 3) the Native African political movement - Kenyatta and Co. 4) the Native African armed resistance - Akina Mau Mau After the world war where Africans had been sent abroad and came back - there was a realization that Kumbe mzungu ni mtu tu... there were poor white people. Kwao sio paradise... they bled and died! Their culture was not as great as it had been made to be by the missionaries and colonial governement. The empire had signed the charter with the US to give 'independence' to all colonies and that is why countries were getting independence right left and center. Akina Kenyatta wanted this independence but some good intentioned by misguided Africans (Akina Mau Mau) started a conflict. The settlers used this noise making to convince the british government to send someone who was sympathetic to their cause - Evelyn Baring! The man who rode on the Mau Mau violence claiming that inflicting “violent shock” was the only way of dealing with these Mau Mau insurgents! It was a war that yielded results in the Media huko UK. He was heavy handed and really did quash the resistance and in a case of killing 2 birds with one stone - lumped up Kenyatta and Co. in the same pot as Mau Mau. If my memory serves me well - it's news of the Hola massacre that made it's way to British media - the public was displeased on how the colonial government had handled the whole situation. By then Mau Mau was all but dead! I argue that We lost precious years during the well intentioned but misguided resistance! akina Kenyatta would have gotten results on getting Black majority rule perhaps with civil disobedience in full glare of the british media than a bush war with homemade guns and machetes. India got it in the same way. The case of Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland (present day Zambia, Zimbabwe and Malawi)Unlike Kenya, the mzungus in Rhodesia and Nyasaland were more deliberate in wanting independence for themselves from the UK as far back as 1953. They formed the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland! it was to appease those calls for UK to grant independence to its colonies, while deriving the greatest economic benefit from the union, without granting any actual rights to Africans. These were not only agricultural colonies but also had lots of mineral wealth like Copper! Zambia's Black majority rule did not have a 'Mau Mau' type revolt - it was all a product of political activities of akina Kaunda, Nkumbula and Chona. These fellows were very deliberate in reminding black people that self-government would be achieved through the channels of the constitution rather than at the end of an AK-47. Any uprising was quickly quashed and so these political parties relied on protests that finally yielded fruit by the intervention of the British Colonial Office! They got Black majority rule in October 1964. Nyasaland (now Malawi) also tried an armed struggle to kick itself out of that Federation and it was quashed! Hastings Banda was jailed! It was then that his Nyasaland African Congress changed tact and morphed into the Malawi Congress Party and talked to the British government on constitutional reform for independence and Black Majority rule. They got independence in June 1964. Unlike Zambia - Zimbabwe's struggle was decidedly more militaristic! Fighting against the settlers and of course this did not endear the Natives to the British, Akina Ian Smith got their own independence from the british and now this became a civil war type event that finally yielded results in the late 70s. they got black majority rule in 1980. I tend to think that Zim and Namibia were rather unfortunate to have their borders with Apartheid South Africa where support came from. Considering SA was already independent as from 1910 or so. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Rahatupu wrote:wukan wrote:Rahatupu wrote:IMHO, I bet the colonialists achieved in Kenya beyond their wildest dreams. Today ours is a hegemonic imperialist state right from economic to political spheres. We have had the JK imperialist era where like the colonial times opposition was unwelcome, starting with the KPU Jaramogi errors all the way to JM and Tom Mboya murders in the political front that was continued by Nyayo with Ouko et al being sent to their graves early because of dissent. Not to mention Matiba and co incarceration.
On the economic front the plunder continues from where Jomo left and where Nyayo followed. In a word had the real freedom fighters of the JM, Kimathi and Kungu Karumba ilk taken over maybe we'd have true liberation at all fronts. But sadly we cannot appreciate the psychology of collaboration against their "house slave/nigger"mentality of when looked at from a point of view of what to do with independence.  This is what folks don't get that the colonial system in Kenya and the apartheid system were set up by first impoverishing the african by introducing the poll tax and hut tax to force the african to be a provider of cheap labour to work in mzungu farms or in SA in the mines. The taxes the colonial state collected were not used for the benefit of the african it was just used to fund "happy valley" lifestyles for a minority few. This imperialist economy is what Matiba and Co inherited and perfected using state patronage to advance their interests. Without state patronage the empires of Odinga, Michuki, Njenga Karume also seemed to crumble. I heard Paul Muite say that Matiba in his last days was concerned about that gap between the have and havenots. Every good working thing was run by the missionaries be it hospitals, the good schools. Look at the youtube videos of colonial kenya and operation anvil and see how poor and rugged our ancestors looked. Our economy was founded on plundering the resources of others using state machinery. No change has ever been done to that imperialist economy. We engage in high corruption to acquire resources to cross the divide. Anyway Steve Jobs said that death is the agent of change it clears out the old to give way to the new. The younger generations need to learn this history as they work to build their own story. Matiba RIP  . Need I say more.... we never started our own systems nor design our own political or economic models to tackle poverty and disease. Instead we took over the empire and the new colonialist were now black, we clapped and marvelled at our new status as South African lately learnt. This is what @Masukuma et al need to appreciate. I get it!! I really do! History repeats itself: once as tragedy, then as farce! Mzungus were here for extraction! Mzungus were not here to help us but themselves! It was a tragedy and the independence governments were a farce!! They kept on doing exactly what the Mzungu government did... They taxed africans indirectly using institutions such as all these "Boards"... Tea Board, Coffee Board, Pyrethrum Board, Dairy Boards e.t.c. heck we even had black lawyers and judges wearing white wigs... a total farce. This is not in question! The QUESTION IS... WHAT GAVE US "INDEPENDENCE"?? not whether "INDEPENDENCE" was all it was billed to be! Tuko pamoja? All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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